Multiple "Check [x]" warnings, dead dials

[Bryandowen]

I started my 2015 Genesis (5.0, Ultimate package, ~104k miles) today, and I noticed all sorts of weirdness out of the blue:
- Check ECS
- Check LKAS
- Check BSD
- Check PSB
- Check AEB
- Check TPMS
- Blinkers and hazards don't work
- Speedometer, tachometer dials don't work
- Shift indicator is blank (there's a box displayed, but nothing inside of it; shifting into Drive yields nothing)
- Power steering is harder than normal (but not completely dead)
- Radio works, but gives "Battery discharging" warning as if the car is not running
- In reverse, I see the indicator showing where the car is headed, but no camera image

I'd seen something like this happen before, and turning the car off and back on fixed it. This time, no dice. I took the car for a short drive then parked and turned it off and back on, and still no dice.

The only possible clue I can fathom to any of this is that a few weeks back I hit a pothole driving through Vail, Colorado, and my Check AEB indicator came on and has stayed on since. That I assume is due to some misalignment or loose connector or even damage to the AEB sensor, but I can't imagine that would somehow become aggravated over time to cause all these other issues. Maybe I need a more active imagination. With everything electronic, nothing should surprise me I guess.

I saw talk about an inoperative brake switch causing similar issues, but I've verified that the switch works and my brake lights come on. I also checked the "3 MODULE" fuse under the hood and it's fine. I'll start checking other fuses, but would be tickled if someone saved me a goose chase because they have a good idea what to look.

Thanks y'all.

-Bryan

 

[EdP]

I started my 2015 Genesis (5.0, Ultimate package, ~104k miles) today, and I noticed all sorts of weirdness out of the blue:
- Check ECS
- Check LKAS
- Check BSD
- Check PSB
- Check AEB
- Check TPMS
- Blinkers and hazards don't work
- Speedometer, tachometer dials don't work
- Shift indicator is blank (there's a box displayed, but nothing inside of it; shifting into Drive yields nothing)
- Power steering is harder than normal (but not completely dead)
- Radio works, but gives "Battery discharging" warning as if the car is not running
- In reverse, I see the indicator showing where the car is headed, but no camera image

I'd seen something like this happen before, and turning the car off and back on fixed it. This time, no dice. I took the car for a short drive then parked and turned it off and back on, and still no dice.

The only possible clue I can fathom to any of this is that a few weeks back I hit a pothole driving through Vail, Colorado, and my Check AEB indicator came on and has stayed on since. That I assume is due to some misalignment or loose connector or even damage to the AEB sensor, but I can't imagine that would somehow become aggravated over time to cause all these other issues. Maybe I need a more active imagination. With everything electronic, nothing should surprise me I guess.

I saw talk about an inoperative brake switch causing similar issues, but I've verified that the switch works and my brake lights come on. I also checked the "3 MODULE" fuse under the hood and it's fine. I'll start checking other fuses, but would be tickled if someone saved me a goose chase because they have a good idea what to look.

Thanks y'all.

-Bryan

How old is the battery? Alternator condition? Others had many strange lights when the battery was near dead.

 

[Bryandowen]

Huh. This does seem like a plausible cause. I can't speak to the condition of the alternator (though I'll test charging voltage tomorrow) -- but the battery is original, so it's a good 6 years old. This gives me a couple good leads. Thanks!

I've also read about sensors going bad and causing havoc on the CAN bus, which can lead to similar issues. There's a fuel pressure sensor that seems to be a usual suspect.

 

[Hueydriver]

Like Ed said, battery could be your problem!

 

[EdP]

Huh. This does seem like a plausible cause. I can't speak to the condition of the alternator (though I'll test charging voltage tomorrow) -- but the battery is original, so it's a good 6 years old. This gives me a couple good leads. Thanks!

I've also read about sensors going bad and causing havoc on the CAN bus, which can lead to similar issues. There's a fuel pressure sensor that seems to be a usual suspect.

At 6 years, my first step it to replace the battery. Most last about 4 years.

 

[greekgeek]

Check the trunk wiring harness for broken or damaged wires. Known problem w TSB.

 

[Bryandowen]

Check the trunk wiring harness for broken or damaged wires. Known problem w TSB.

When you say "trunk wiring harness", do you mean the fusebox and wiring next to the passenger-side tail lamp (accessible behind a square door in the trunk lining)?

 

[surprisinguy]

I would replace the battery

 

[greekgeek]

When you say "trunk wiring harness", do you mean the fusebox and wiring next to the passenger-side tail lamp (accessible behind a square door in the trunk lining)?

Not quite, check out this thread. Hyundai replaced the entire floor harness of my car due to this issue. Now there is a TSB on how to just repair the trunk branch wiring and reroute to prevent recurrence.

Floor wiring harness

We are at 61k miles on our 2015 sedan and unfortunately our rear camera stopped working. The dealer took a look and said the floor wiring harness 'wore out from opening/closing of the trunk' and it will cost $5k to repair. I'm curious if this is bad luck (just out of warranty) or bad design...

genesisowners.com

Here is the TSB

Website with Technical Service Bulletins - Broken wires in trunk

Don't know if this site was ever posted here but I just came across it today. And, what do you know... There is a TSB that was posted last year about the flexing/broken wires on the trunk hinge. https://www.carcomplaints.com/Hyundai/Genesis/2015/tsbs/tsb-20-be-007h.shtml

genesisowners.com

 

[arcman]

Very similar to what happened to my car except the sluggish steering and back up cam. Bad chip in module. I doubt it's your battery but six years might be time to replace.

If you haven't already found this and you can DIY... start here: My car was 'Totaled' by the insurance company over a part costing $1.46

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[Bryandowen]

Very similar to what happened to my car except the sluggish steering and back up cam. Bad chip in module. I doubt it's your battery but six years might be time to replace.

If you haven't already found this and you can DIY... start here: My car was 'Totaled' by the insurance company over a part costing $1.46

This is *awesome*. I'm skeptical that it's the battery as well (resting voltage is good, car starts right up every time, charging voltage is good). I'm not opposed to replacing it since it's old, but am opposed to throwing 200÷ bucks at it if I'm not pretty sure that'll fix the problem, which I'm not yet.

As I mentioned, I've had a new AEB warning for a few weeks, after hitting a mean pothole driving through the mountains Colorado. This *seems* like an aggravation of that problem, and strikes me as a much better fit.

Stranger things have happened of course. I'll never say never. ;-)

At any rate, I just so happen to have an o-scope and some electronics troubleshooting skills. (6 years electronics repair in the army). I'll do some research next, but in case you see this before I figure it out: Where can I find the taps for CAN bus C?

Thanks!

-Bryan

 

[arcman]

I back-probed the connector at the LKAS sensor at the windshield. If you have a modern scope, you can just sit in the passenger seat with it in your lap or on the dash.



CAN on pins 2 & 3.


Have fun! Good luck.

 

[Bryandowen]

So I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for. :-\ I'm also assuming I've found the right pins -- sitting in the driver's seat with the LKAS cover popped off, I'm tapping the 2nd and 3rd pins from the right on the top row. Keeping in mind I'm looking at the back of the connector -- the "X"s mark the pins I'm reading:

O O O X X O
O O O O O O

Here's a snapshot of what I'm seeing. My o-scope is a DS0138 solder-together-yourself hobby scope, so I wouldn't put too much faith in the accuracy based on screen resolution and microprocessor speed. But what I'm seeing *looks* fairly normal to my untrained eye:



It looks like a TDMA bus, where sensors respond in a specific order, and if a sensor isn't responding, you see an empty block. There's one about 10% of the way in, and another right about 50% of the way in. But those aren't always null, and other ones will pop in and out. No idea if this is normal or not.

I've unplugged the LKAS sensor, and that didn't resolve the multiple sensor warnings on startup. I also unplugged the radar behind the front grill and that doesn't seem to alleviate the issue either.

In an ever-so-frustrating development, I went back to write down which warnings I get with which sensors unplugged, and right now I'm not getting all the weird issues when I turn on the car. Just a TPMS warning, and either "Check AEB" (with radar plugged in) or "Check SCC" (with radar unplugged). I can see the gear shift indicator, the tach gauge and backup camera are working, etc. Now I'm wondering if the AEB radar just straight up failed a few weeks ago (without sabotaging the CAN bus), and now the TPMS sensor has gone out and *is* sabotaging the CAN bus. I'm usually inclined to think it's not two problems at once, but they would be about 3 weeks apart, which seems more plausible.

<still scratching my head>

I also tore out the trunk liner and inspected the wiring harness around the passenger side trunk actuator arm. There doesn't *appear* to be any problem there, thought I couldn't find any easy way to check continuity in the wiring harness.

I wish it was easier to isolate a sensor at a time. :-\

-Bryan

 

[EdP]

This is *awesome*. I'm skeptical that it's the battery as well (resting voltage is good, car starts right up every time, charging voltage is good). I'm not opposed to replacing it since it's old, but am opposed to throwing 200÷ bucks at it if I'm not pretty sure that'll fix the problem, which I'm not yet.
-Bryan

When will you replace the 6 YO battery? When you leave a restaurant late at night in a rainstorm? Or a Sunday night 100 miles from home? Given the age, it is just preventative maintenance like oil changes and brake pads. Takes one item out of the diagnostic chain.

God luck, hope you find the problem Do a search and you will find many odd electronics problems were cured with a battery.

 

[arcman]

Chances are you haven't had two modules go bad in three weeks. And there is no guarantee it's a module. Looks like you can rule out the LKAS and SCC.

I'm pretty sure there aren't any CAN bus wires in the trunk hinge harness, so you can rule that out too. (with 100K on the clock, you might as well give a good look at those wires where they are attached to the frame. Many others have found them broke from flexing)

Your scope isn't very symmetrical but it sure doesn't look like mine did. You will need two channels to observe opposing waveforms. That would show if there is any shorting on the high or lo side. (oh yeah... the CAN hi/lo wires 2/3 are white and brown via the schematic I included)

I think there's at least six or more modules you can get to without tearing too much of the car apart. Just start pulling them one at a time.

My errors weren't always the same but usually at least five or so each time. I think this is because the gateway/modules are constantly/randomly communicating.

Don't forget... if you disconnect a module at a joint connector that includes other modules down the line, you'll have to add jumper wires to both CAN hi and lo to keep everything connected.

 

[Bryandowen]

When will you replace the 6 YO battery? When you leave a restaurant late at night in a rainstorm? Or a Sunday night 100 miles from home? Given the age, it is just preventative maintenance like oil changes and brake pads. Takes one item out of the diagnostic chain.

God luck, hope you find the problem Do a search and you will find many odd electronics problems were cured with a battery.

My car's not even running correctly now, so getting to the restaurant at night during a rainstorm or 100 miles from here on a Sunday night aren't at the top of my gripe list. The battery voltages (at rest and charging) look correct, and I don't want to complicate troubleshooting, or spend +/- $250, just yet. If I wind up changing the battery and it fixes the other issues, I'll come back with hat in hand.

 

[Bryandowen]

Chances are you haven't had two modules go bad in three weeks. And there is no guarantee it's a module. Looks like you can rule out the LKAS and SCC.

I'm pretty sure there aren't any CAN bus wires in the trunk hinge harness, so you can rule that out too. (with 100K on the clock, you might as well give a good look at those wires where they are attached to the frame. Many others have found them broke from flexing)

Your scope isn't very symmetrical but it sure doesn't look like mine did. You will need two channels to observe opposing waveforms. That would show if there is any shorting on the high or lo side. (oh yeah... the CAN hi/lo wires 2/3 are white and brown via the schematic I included)

I think there's at least six or more modules you can get to without tearing too much of the car apart. Just start pulling them one at a time.

My errors weren't always the same but usually at least five or so each time. I think this is because the gateway/modules are constantly/randomly communicating.

Don't forget... if you disconnect a module at a joint connector that includes other modules down the line, you'll have to add jumper wires to both CAN hi and lo to keep everything connected.

I was measuring on the wrong pins. The white and brown pins are on the bottom row:

O O O O O O
O O O 3 2 1

(1=ground)

I took videos of 1-2 (GND to CAN-High) and 1-3 (GND to CAN-Low). The traces do look different from before (no surprise), and I saw something interesting. In both, you can see a signal that looks like it's "slipping" later and later in the frame, like a carrier sweeping across a spectrum. It could be (a) a sensor that isn't communicating at the right time; (b) some other interference on the CAN bus; or (c) something else entirely, including correct operation.

I can't upload .mp4 files here, but these are links to the videos:
[CAN high]
[CAN low]

I think my next step is to locate and troubleshoot the TPMS, since it's common to all of the previous scenarios.

Thanks,

-Bryan

 

[EdP]

My car's not even running correctly now, so getting to the restaurant at night during a rainstorm or 100 miles from here on a Sunday night aren't at the top of my gripe list. The battery voltages (at rest and charging) look correct, and I don't want to complicate troubleshooting, or spend +/- $250, just yet. If I wind up changing the battery and it fixes the other issues, I'll come back with hat in hand.

Part of troubleshooting is research. Do some investigating here and find what others did for electrical problems. You may find the one in the past week where a guy had unknown problems. He took his battery and had it load tested at Auto Zone. They said it was good, just like you say the voltages are correct.
Find what he did and it fixed his problems.

 

[Bryandowen]

Part of troubleshooting is research. Do some investigating here and find what others did for electrical problems. You may find the one in the past week where a guy had unknown problems. He took his battery and had it load tested at Auto Zone. They said it was good, just like you say the voltages are correct.
Find what he did and it fixed his problems.

> Part of troubleshooting is research

I appreciate your early response, but I'm not really digging the level of concern over me not taking your advice. I'm trying some things that don't cost me $250 and may or may not fix the problem.

 

[EdP]

> Part of troubleshooting is research

I appreciate your early response, but I'm not really digging the level of concern over me not taking your advice. I'm trying some things that don't cost me $250 and may or may not fix the problem.

Don't take my advice. Do the research. Make an informed decision.