Multiple "Check [x]" warnings, dead dials

[Bryandowen]

... That's sort of exactly what I'm doing. Thanks.

 

[Andyj]

take it to your nearest Hyundai dealer and pay $175 for a diagnosis. That's a little cheaper than a new battery.

 

[Suburbazine]

... That's sort of exactly what I'm doing. Thanks.

If a bump knocked out your AEB and then more things flaked out after a few weeks, I'd be starting my search in the engine smart junction box on the passenger fender. Look for damaged cables, loose harness or even a blown fuse. If your power steering got stiffer but not completely out, it means you've somehow lost communication with the ABS module, and that connection point is the SJB.

You may need to disconnect the battery, then pop the top part of the SJB out to inspect the harnesses underneath. Maybe a rodent got in there.

 

[arcman]

I'd be very surprised if the dealer could track this down. I had more than one tell me to just start pulling modules.

Cant hurt to check all power connections from the battery to the fuse blocks.

TPMS module is above the glove box.

PM me and I'll send schems and location photos.

 

[Bryandowen]

I'd be very surprised if the dealer could track this down.

I absolutely dread taking my car to any shop for a non-routine issue. I somehow attract the most esoteric car problems on earth, and I've spent way too much money having a shop tell me that my problem isn't a problem, or that they couldn't reproduce it.

On the CAN topic... I just spent some time reading up on the CAN bus specification. I believe CAN-C is based on ISO 11898-3, which is a 125kb/s "low speed fault tolerant" signaling specification. Two interesting things that I think might offer clues to my problem:

1. The CAN protocol is generally asynchronous (no timing signal per se), but prescribes a synchronization technique so that all modules on the bus can properly listen to each other during transmission, which is vital to prioritization and making sure that only one device at a time transmits data over the bus.

So this isn't a TDMA protocol (time-division multiple-access), as devices don't have preconfigured time slots where they each can talk on the bus. It's more like Ethernet CSMA (carrier sense multiple access) -- except rather than testing for any carrier and everybody backs off (a la Ethernet), any device can try to talk, but they have to listen to other devices' device IDs at the same time, to determine who wins if there's contention (lowest ID wins). The winner gets to keep talking, unimpeded.

2. CAN devices communicate over a balanced two-wire pair using differential signaling (which you've already pointed out). If there's interference, it will likely affect both CAN-high and CAN-low in a way that cancels out the interference at the receiver.

In those videos I sent you, there was a frame that looked like it was marching from left to right, seemingly clobbering whatever was already talking. Differential signaling would seem to rule out random interference (one of my two theories). My remaining theory is that there's a module on the bus that's not able to listen to the bus, which is causing it to (a) not synchronize with other modules on the bus, which is why its frame "walks across" other frames; and (b) not participate in arbitration, and assume that it's always the "winner", causing it to keep talking even when another device is talking.

I'm betting this is all handled by that $1.46 chip.

At any rate, I'll DM you for the schematics and pictures -- THANK YOU for your help. I'm so happy to have found someone who can tell me where all the skeletons lie.

 

[ATL Genesis106]

I started my 2015 Genesis (5.0, Ultimate package, ~104k miles) today, and I noticed all sorts of weirdness out of the blue:
- Check ECS
- Check LKAS
- Check BSD
- Check PSB
- Check AEB
- Check TPMS
- Blinkers and hazards don't work
- Speedometer, tachometer dials don't work
- Shift indicator is blank (there's a box displayed, but nothing inside of it; shifting into Drive yields nothing)
- Power steering is harder than normal (but not completely dead)
- Radio works, but gives "Battery discharging" warning as if the car is not running
- In reverse, I see the indicator showing where the car is headed, but no camera image

I'd seen something like this happen before, and turning the car off and back on fixed it. This time, no dice. I took the car for a short drive then parked and turned it off and back on, and still no dice.

The only possible clue I can fathom to any of this is that a few weeks back I hit a pothole driving through Vail, Colorado, and my Check AEB indicator came on and has stayed on since. That I assume is due to some misalignment or loose connector or even damage to the AEB sensor, but I can't imagine that would somehow become aggravated over time to cause all these other issues. Maybe I need a more active imagination. With everything electronic, nothing should surprise me I guess.

I saw talk about an inoperative brake switch causing similar issues, but I've verified that the switch works and my brake lights come on. I also checked the "3 MODULE" fuse under the hood and it's fine. I'll start checking other fuses, but would be tickled if someone saved me a goose chase because they have a good idea what to look.

Thanks y'all.

-Bryan

Hello, Bryan
OmG, It happened to me on mother's day with my family at the restaurant, Had to tow the car to local dealer and got the car back in two days.
when they tested next day, it was normal. No solution provided. they told me to bring the car back when it happens again.
Guess what. it' happened today morning 5/24/21 front of my home. So. it has happened to me twice within two weeks.

first incident I only took the picture, but this time I recorded the video HyundaiUSA can watch as well.

first attempt.

2nd attempt.

Bryan, thanks for detail. I didn't know how to explain it.

 

[Bryandowen]

OmG, It happened to me on mother's day with my family at the restaurant, Had to tow the car to local dealer and got the car back in two days.
when they tested next day, it was normal. No solution provided. they told me to bring the car back when it happens again.
Guess what. it' happened today morning 5/24/21 front of my home. So. it has happened to me twice within two weeks.

That's unfortunate. You have a lane departure warning as well. These systems are inter-dependent in interesting ways, so it could be a single sensor is acting up, and at a granular level your computer knows what went wrong, but it bubbles that message up in a way that lets you know which systems are now disabled, but doesn't point you at the problem. I wish there was some "press OK for more detail" technique that would tell you what actually triggered the cascade of messages.

I figured out what was wrong with my car, and I'll post about it next. I think the messages that popped up on my dash make sense (mostly), but absolutely would not help the user identify the actual issue.

 

[Bryandowen]

So here's what happened. <sigh>

I had a flaky connection to an ABS sensor on my driver-side rear wheel. I fixed the connection, and that cleared up everything except my TPMS warning, which went away within a few seconds of driving the car.

The longer story... Years ago I put the wrong (but "close") sized snow cables on my rear wheels to get out of Lake Tahoe during a snow storm. The driver-side rear cable worked its way off the tread and to the inside of the wheel, slashing the wires to my ABS sensor and ESC actuator. I'm lucky it didn't cut my brake line too.

I improvised the repair myself. It wasn't even a real bad one (heat shrink tubing, solid solder connections). It held for several years -- long enough for me to forget about it.

Fast forward to me hitting a speed bump in Colorado a few weeks back. Evidently that jostled the corroding connection enough to cause it to flake, and for the main computer to start turning off systems that depend on ABS (e.g., AEB, SCC). I don't know if BSD, PSB, etc. are also dependent on ABS, or if the flaky connection corrupted communication on the CAN bus so it *looked* like other sensors were also failing.

In any case, soldering that connection back together cleared up all but the TPMS light, and that cleared within a few seconds of test-driving the car. (I think it was just complaining that it hadn't received data from the wheel sensors, which require the car to move -- a red herring.)

Lessons learned:
1. Always use the right sized cables/chains on your car. "Close" isn't close enough. This type of damage is exactly why you need to size them correctly.
2. Improvising a repair instead of replacing with new parts is a dicey proposition. It saves a lot of money and works great... right up until it doesn't.
3. If you've done that sort of repair, it's probably best to check in on it periodically, and consider it a prime suspect when something similarly weird happens down the road.
4. The warnings you see on the dash are removed by a couple levels of indirection from what actually caused the issue. (Flaky ABS connection causes ABS to fail, which causes AEB to fail, which causes SCC and ESC and Auto Hold to fail and possibly other systems like PSB, BSD, and more...)

Anyway, thanks to everyone who chimed in on this thread. And SUPER SPECIAL THANKS to Arcman for advice and technical documentation. I'm floored that he spent the time and effort to help me out in this time of (self-inflicted) need. I really appreciate your help. You kept me on the right path.

 

[arcman]

Good to hear you found and fixed the problem. Another happy DIY'er.

 

[ATL Genesis106]

Got the car back after two days. I guess they didn't even checked my car until I stopped by for an update.
I did have the bad feeling about the dealer since I didn't purchase the car from this dealer.
I felt service advisor was having a bad day while I was asking for help, didn't even listen to what I was explaining and didn't want to take any document I created. I had the video clip of what was happening.

They did found the CODES C1611,C1812EPB,C1812EPS, C1812SCC, C180B, C181287 & they had to contact the Tech line for the issue.
If Service Advisor took the document I gathered, He didn't need to call me for explanation, I told him I'm going back to the dealer I purchase the car.
I did waste my time and not willing to purchase my next Hyundai car from this dealer even though it was close by from my home & work.
I will let you know any updates when I go to the dealer I purchase the car. Hopefully they can found out the issue.
It is never wrecking, whenever I start the car. Scare to drive out of town or visiting any local store.

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[242genesisg80]

Got the car back after two days. I guess they didn't even checked my car until I stopped by for an update.
I did have the bad feeling about the dealer since I didn't purchase the car from this dealer.
I felt service advisor was having a bad day while I was asking for help, didn't even listen to what I was explaining and didn't want to take any document I created. I had the video clip of what was happening.

They did found the CODES C1611,C1812EPB,C1812EPS, C1812SCC, C180B, C181287 & they had to contact the Tech line for the issue.
If Service Advisor took the document I gathered, He didn't need to call me for explanation, I told him I'm going back to the dealer I purchase the car.
I did waste my time and not willing to purchase my next Hyundai car from this dealer even though it was close by from my home & work.
I will let you know any updates when I go to the dealer I purchase the car. Hopefully they can found out the issue.
It is never wrecking, whenever I start the car. Scare to drive out of town or visiting any local store.

Any luck /?

 

[Tristen]

I started my 2015 Genesis (5.0, Ultimate package, ~104k miles) today, and I noticed all sorts of weirdness out of the blue:
- Check ECS
- Check LKAS
- Check BSD
- Check PSB
- Check AEB
- Check TPMS
- Blinkers and hazards don't work
- Speedometer, tachometer dials don't work
- Shift indicator is blank (there's a box displayed, but nothing inside of it; shifting into Drive yields nothing)
- Power steering is harder than normal (but not completely dead)
- Radio works, but gives "Battery discharging" warning as if the car is not running
- In reverse, I see the indicator showing where the car is headed, but no camera image

I'd seen something like this happen before, and turning the car off and back on fixed it. This time, no dice. I took the car for a short drive then parked and turned it off and back on, and still no dice.

The only possible clue I can fathom to any of this is that a few weeks back I hit a pothole driving through Vail, Colorado, and my Check AEB indicator came on and has stayed on since. That I assume is due to some misalignment or loose connector or even damage to the AEB sensor, but I can't imagine that would somehow become aggravated over time to cause all these other issues. Maybe I need a more active imagination. With everything electronic, nothing should surprise me I guess.

I saw talk about an inoperative brake switch causing similar issues, but I've verified that the switch works and my brake lights come on. I also checked the "3 MODULE" fuse under the hood and it's fine. I'll start checking other fuses, but would be tickled if someone saved me a goose chase because they have a good idea what to look.

Thanks y'all.

-Bryan

I had an issue with check PSB along with the temp gauge going blank, I replaced the fuel pump module and its all good now. It cost me like 180 to replace, I would gamble and just replace that first.

 

[242genesisg80]

I had an issue with check PSB along with the temp gauge going blank, I replaced the fuel pump module and its all good now. It cost me like 180 to replace, I would gamble and just replace that first.

I have replaced the fuel control module (problem went away for but pop up occasionally about 2 months )now the issues is back , I've already change the engine harness its becoming annoying and im in the Bahamas this car is stressing me out,,,, i keep throwing money into this car its 2015 , Genesis 3.8 base RWD with the sunroof

 

[ATL Genesis106]

Hi guys, Today it happened again this morning, I will give you an update when I get back home today if it works or not, It does come back to normal after a period of time, that's why dealer ignored my video. It really sucks. It's my third time since 2021 May

 

[242genesisg80]

Hi guys, Today it happened again this morning, I will give you an update when I get back home today if it works or not, It does come back to normal after a period of time, that's why dealer ignored my video. It really sucks. It's my third time since 2021 May

Please keep me posted as into what is the outcome I am having the same issue but my car is not equipped with LKAS & PSB.

This seems to be an ongoing thing I'm not sure what it is but I am certain it has something to do with the canbus there is a video on YouTube with a person having a similar issue, I'm not sure if it was linked but I'll paste the link below they traced it to a wheel speed sensor.

 

[arcman]

Thanks for posting that. Looks like I'm not the only one that had that failure. A good job of explaining and diagnostic skills but he spends a bit too much time going over the wiring diagram. Found the problem rather quickly. Good for them. (I 'spose it helped that the bumper cover was off to start at that connector) Nice to have the tools too. (I just posted on their video that they didn't need to lower the subframe to get to the EPB)

Also shows that there's a lot of shops (like the people who worked on my car) who have no clue because the first place that had the car replaced the dash panel. Dumb...

If you are interested... Go back and read my posting. My car was 'Totaled' by the insurance company over a part costing $1.46 You can eliminate the EPB by disconnecting it in the right rear fender well and jumping the can bus wires. That connector in the front is easily accessed after removing the panel under the bumper cover with a couple plastic push pins and a few bolts.

 

[Genesis24]

I started my 2015 Genesis (5.0, Ultimate package, ~104k miles) today, and I noticed all sorts of weirdness out of the blue:
- Check ECS
- Check LKAS
- Check BSD
- Check PSB
- Check AEB
- Check TPMS
- Blinkers and hazards don't work
- Speedometer, tachometer dials don't work
- Shift indicator is blank (there's a box displayed, but nothing inside of it; shifting into Drive yields nothing)
- Power steering is harder than normal (but not completely dead)
- Radio works, but gives "Battery discharging" warning as if the car is not running
- In reverse, I see the indicator showing where the car is headed, but no camera image

I'd seen something like this happen before, and turning the car off and back on fixed it. This time, no dice. I took the car for a short drive then parked and turned it off and back on, and still no dice.

The only possible clue I can fathom to any of this is that a few weeks back I hit a pothole driving through Vail, Colorado, and my Check AEB indicator came on and has stayed on since. That I assume is due to some misalignment or loose connector or even damage to the AEB sensor, but I can't imagine that would somehow become aggravated over time to cause all these other issues. Maybe I need a more active imagination. With everything electronic, nothing should surprise me I guess.

I saw talk about an inoperative brake switch causing similar issues, but I've verified that the switch works and my brake lights come on. I also checked the "3 MODULE" fuse under the hood and it's fine. I'll start checking other fuses, but would be tickled if someone saved me a goose chase because they have a good idea what to look.

Thanks y'all.

-Bryan

Took mine to Hyundai , they said the Hydraulic Unit needs to be replaced . That’s the main issue that causes all other sensors to react !

 

[arcman]

I disagree. A failure of a CAN bus transceiver chip in any of the 30+ modules can cause the same warning light issues. (it happened to my car)

Looks to me like the dealer picked the most expensive part to replace. From experience seeing others post about multiple warning codes... if one part failed, it's usually the Fuel Pump Control Module.

Has the ABS light ever come up by itself? If not, it's more likely a communication problem on the CAN bus.

If you do let the dealer replace the ABS module, make sure they guarantee the new unit fixes the problem.