Need a definitive answer regarding Limited Slip Differential

[Mark_888]

A better tire is the only thing I REALLY want to see on the 2011 model when my lease is up this November.

I am sure that you will also want to rip out the 2011 suspension and put in the your current one in the new car.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

I am sure that you will also want to rip out the 2011 suspension and put in the your current one in the new car.

I know you're joking despite the lack of a smiley. As one who's fine with the '09 version, I can't imagine they'd screw it up on the third iteration.
;-)

 

[ctrcbob]

Don't know about all the technical things, but I do know that when I step on it, while on a wet road, and my wheels cross the white paint at crosswalks, the car "jerks" when the wheels lose grip, AND THE "ESC" LIGHT FLASHES ON.

Same thing when I took my car to Roswell last December. Step on it while on snow and ice, and the car "jerks" looses power, and the ESC light come on.

This all gave me traction.

(forgot what lamp lighted when I hit the brakes hard and the ABS kicked in)

 

[nearwater]

Interesting that the LSD is being phased out.
Although the ESC/TCS does the job what a mechanical LSDs do, I still believe the LSD is superior especially on a track.
Is there a easier way to distinguish the open diff and an LSD by physically looking at it?

Dan

 

[sandy]

Interesting that the LSD is being phased out.
Although the ESC/TCS does the job what a mechanical LSDs do, I still believe the LSD is superior especially on a track.
Is there a easier way to distinguish the open diff and an LSD by physically looking at it?

Dan

You're probably right that LSD is superior in a track situation, that's why they were so popular in sports cars going back to the 60's (my '65 XKE has one). I'm guessing the difference LSD may make today when added to the newer electronic devices is marginal and not in demand by enough consumers to be a significant marketing factor. Probably no longer warrants the added mfg. cost and complexity.

 

[HYTECH]

Hytech, As I mentioned, there is only one V8, with Tech, that is local to me and it is not my first choice in color, but I do have the VIN (KMHGC4DF5AU094264), .

Sorry I took so long to respond I was on vacation and forgot about this thread. I looked this up in the parts catalog and this vin does not have a limited slip diff. I talked to someone at HMA in service training and he said they were talking about not having LSD on the genisis with traction control because it doen't let the computer control traction on the rear wheels independantly.

 

[motorsportsauthority]

< I have a 10 V8 w/tech. Leaves 2 tire marks, so...LSD in mine.

 

[dts2]

Although I said my previous post was my last (on this subject), I thought it necessary to thanks those who offered constructive information, especially Hytech.

Last night I received a note from Hyundai Consumer Affairs with their response to the note I sent on June 15th. Took a while, but here it is verbatim:

We appreciate you patience while we further researched the 2010 4.6L Hyundai Genesis Sedan's differential.

The 4.6L Genesis is not offered with a limited slip differential, but is instead offered with ESC (Electronic Stability Control), which offers TCS (Traction Control System). TCS reduces wheel spin under acceleration. Please keep in mind that this feature does not compensate for severe driving errors and is meant to enhance conscientious driving habits. TCS is not a substitute for safe driving practices.

We have documented this information under Case # 3988813 if we can be of further assistance.

Thank you for contacting Hyundai Consumer Affairs.

I am now convinced that (1) some 2010 4.6 Genesis did slip through with the LSD, but I am guessing there was a production run change and that item was deleted. (2) It was probably more of a cost issue since they did add some additional features and the ~$250 savings probably made the changes cost neutral. Can't fault them for trying to produce a top shelf vehicle for the best price, but I would have been happy to pay for LSD as an option, since I know the value that it brings and, frankly, I truly believe it is also a safety feature. It is what it is and I am currently trying to lease a 2010 and not having a lot of luck. Seems that my local dealers are not stocking them and those who are, are not into negotiating price. In any event, thanks to all.

 

[Mark_888]

I am now convinced that (1) some 2010 4.6 Genesis did slip through with the LSD, but I am guessing there was a production run change and that item was deleted. (2) It was probably more of a cost issue since they did add some additional features and the ~$250 savings probably made the changes cost neutral. Can't fault them for trying to produce a top shelf vehicle for the best price, but I would have been happy to pay for LSD as an option, since I know the value that it brings and, frankly, I truly believe it is also a safety feature. It is what it is and I am currently trying to lease a 2010 and not having a lot of luck. Seems that my local dealers are not stocking them and those who are, are not into negotiating price. In any event, thanks to all.

You conclusion may, or may not, be correct. Just because others claim to have it (based pretty much on being able to leave tire tracks on both rear wheels) does not actually mean they have it on any 2010 Genesis sedan sold in the US. As already mentioned, TCS provides the same function as LSD, which means that tire tracks could be observed on a car with TCS.

The BMW 7 series does not have LSD, so I don't think you can accuse Hyundai of being cheap. The only BMW's with LSD are M series (according to reports that I read).

 

[dts2]

One clarification regarding TSC/LSD. Having been an automobile enthusiast, especially high-performance types, for more than 40 years, I can say with reasonable certainty that you are not going to lay down two strips of rear wheel rubber with TSC. The whole intent of TSC is to STOP the wheel with the least traction from spinning therefore sending the driving force to the other wheel. What it does (described in this thread) is electronically apply the brake to the offending wheel surely decreasing brake life. This is usually a back and forth action wheel to wheel action, and not conducive to doing a smoky burnout. Some contributors to this thread seemed to take office at the thought of a Genesis doing a burnout and I can assure you that the cost of replacement tires would be disincentive for me. However, knowing that I could turn off/down the TSC in snow/ice would be a tremendous help.

It is all a moot point, since last night I signed on the dotted line for a 2010 4.6 with an unknown differential. I have been assured by a number of dealers that the TSC in my current 3.8 was probably defective and that when it is working properly it will meet my needs. I say boloney to that, but since The Genesis is still the best bang for the buck and I will not have to learn all the features of a different brand I am staying with the Genesis for three more years.

By the way, my new dealer had a "badge" option for $850 (just external). I suggested that the parts could be purchased for under $100 and he gave me a shocked look, but didn't debate the subject.

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[Mark_888]

One clarification regarding TSC/LSD. Having been an automobile enthusiast, especially high-performance types, for more than 40 years, I can say with reasonable certainty that you are not going to lay down two strips of rear wheel rubber with TSC. The whole intent of TSC is to STOP the wheel with the least traction from spinning therefore sending the driving force to the other wheel. What it does (described in this thread) is electronically apply the brake to the offending wheel surely decreasing brake life. This is usually a back and forth action wheel to wheel action, and not conducive to doing a smoky burnout.

While having TCS may make it hard to do a wheel spin and lay down two tracks of rubber, TCS is not always implemented by applying brakes to one (or both) of the wheels. These are the ways TCS may be implemented:

• Retard or suppress the spark to one or more cylinders
• Reduce fuel supply to one or more cylinders
• Brake one or more wheels
• Close the throttle, if the vehicle is fitted with drive by wire throttle (as we know the Genesis is).

TCS may have been around for some time, but like many technologies, it has changed and become more sophisticated over the years and is considered by even most luxury car manufacturers to be preferable over LSD.

TCS has also been used in race cars. Here is a quote I found regarding how it is implemented in Formula One:

"In Formula One, wheelspin is reduced by cutting the engine power. While each engine has its own system, the power output is either reduced by cutting fuel supply or by retarding or suppressing the spark. Obviously, cutting the fuel to one or more cylinders is beneficial for fuel economy. Current F1 systems use a combination of these factors to ensure optimum performance. A traction control system can be heard in operation very clearly when cars launch out of slow corners. The engine produces a rough sound, caused by the misfires (a cylinder's fuel that doesn't get fired)."
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/7​

However, various racing authorities have tried to ban or regulate TCS because it gives drivers an advantage and lessons the amount of skill needed to drive the cars. Starting in 2008 it was regulated in F1 by requiring cars to use a standardized ECU's. These standardized ECU's do not completely eliminate TCS, but regulate its application in an attempt to make driver skills a larger part of the equation.
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/5278.html

So it appears that LSD does not necessarily prevent slipping (or wheel spin), it just allows wheel spin to occur with equal force on both tires. On the other hand, TCS is so effective in reducing wheel spin that many racing organizations have tried to ban it (or at least regulate it) because it greatly reduces the amount of skill needed to drive a race car.

 

[Rpero]

I have spent much too much time searching for an answer and I did find one comparison that stated that the 2010 4.6 did have the LSD. Unfortunately, it was not a Hyundai source, so that certainly is not the definitive answer I was hoping to receive.
I agree that the dealer could very easily put the car on a lift, or even jack it up and do the "turn the rear tire test", but although they want my signature on a contract they seem to be reluctant, or too lazy, to do it.
I would have to believe that someone out there has a 2010 4.6 who is an enthusiast who has the elusive answer. Still hoping so I can close the deal.

. The simple answer is yes. Easy to check- find some dirt or gravel and stop the car. From a stop, hit the gas hard for 1 second. Get out of the car and look at the tire tracks. You will see both tires were engaged.

 

[84FordMan]

Or you can simply jack up the rear of the car, clamber underneath and snap a photo of the ID tag.

With the Sedan I have seen two types of stickers, the more common one above, which they also used on the Coupe (No surprise since the differential housing is the same part number). This type identifies the production code, the gear ratio and whether it is an open differential, identified as STD, or limited slip differential, identified as LSD.

The second type of sticker I have only seen on a handful of Sedans and it just lists the gear ratio and does not state whether open or LSD.

The problem with the burnout/tire track test is the multitude of systems the Sedan employs, most notably the brake force distribution, which modulates brake pressure left to right rapidly allowing both tires to spin with power. My sticker said STD, so I have an open differential, and with the BTR tune that disables ESC, I can light up both tires thanks only to BFD.

 

[G-23377]

PM me your VIN and I'll look it up for you. some have it and some don't. I have never used traction control in snow but down here in florida/georga it is amazing in rain and ice.

Kmhgc4df8auo96204