New Luxury SUV's from Rolls Royce and Aston Martin

[Mark_888]

But are you trying to beat RR or is it really done by BMW and their experience? That is a more fair comparison.

I really don't think so. They do use some BMW components, like the drivetrain, but the rest of the vehicle is pretty much a RR design and the assembly is pretty much handmade. From what I read, the new SUV is an all-aluminum substructure that is used in an existing RR sedan, which is probably the biggest factor in speed to market.

This isn't just about Genesis vs RR. RR is probably the last (or close to last) luxury or super-luxury brand to bring a SUV to market, except of course Genesis which appears to be dead last.

But my concern about Genesis management is also because of the Genesis USA rollout and dealer fiasco, etc, and also that some G80 and G90 cars still being registered as a Hyundai Genesis G80 or G90 (apparently at the request of Hyundai Motor America or Hyundai Finance).

So the whole package together, taken as a entire body of work, leaves me unimpressed with Genesis management.

I wont even get into things like the hard copy of the Genesis Owners Manual being different than PDF version, with regard to oil change intervals on the 3.3T.

 

[EdP]

I really don't think so. They do use some BMW components, like the drivetrain, but the rest of the vehicle is pretty much a RR design and the assembly is pretty much handmade. From what I read, the new SUV is an all-aluminum substructure that is used in an existing RR sedan, which is probably the biggest factor in speed to market.

Not just parts, but engineering and design staff. My guess that is one reason Genesis is behind. It takes a lot of staff to get a car into production.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Well, they could have made an enhanced version of the Santa Fe, with more soundproofing, better suspension, better interior materials, more gadgets, etc. That's what Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc have done, and they have made billions of profit doing it. They could have sold that as a Genesis SUV, even if they kept selling them at Hyundai dealers.

BTW, I no longer am going to use the CUV term, and only say SUV to cover both of them. That's what MB does.

They did this with the new Sante Fe. It is, more or less, a Lexus RX without the upscale badge. And Genesis Motors can't have another Sante Fe with just wings on it.

As for morphing the G80 into a CUV, that would still require more time than just creating a Sante Fe with wing badges. Genesis Motors is in its second year. The CUVs will come - but since the brand was a 50/50 "should we or shouldn't we" kind of thing, they're not on any normal schedule.

 

[Mark_888]

Not just parts, but engineering and design staff. My guess that is one reason Genesis is behind. It takes a lot of staff to get a car into production.

So you think that Hyundai, which makes over 4.5 million vehicles a year, doesn't have more design staff than RR (even with help from BMW)?

BTW, I think RR did most of the design themselves, except for components I mentioned (like drivetrain). Making a SUV based on the same platform as an existing sedan is not rocket science.

 

[Mark_888]

They did this with the new Sante Fe. It is, more or less, a Lexus RX without the upscale badge. And Genesis Motors can't have another Sante Fe with just wings on it.

As for morphing the G80 into a CUV, that would still require more time than just creating a Sante Fe with wing badges. Genesis Motors is in its second year. The CUVs will come - but since the brand was a 50/50 "should we or shouldn't we" kind of thing, they're not on any normal schedule.

I think the issue of the Genesis brand is not clear cut. Genesis brand has existed in Korea since 2008. It's mainly in the US that it was sold as a Hyundai, due to a decision by HMA help improve the image of the Hyundai brand name. Keep in mind that a separate brand does not necessarily mean separate dealerships, and that decision is again a USA specific issue.

As far as the new Santa Fe, I am sure it will be a nice car, but I doubt they will get Lexus RX prices for it. If you are saying that it will be a nice as a RX, we will have to see. If so, they should do very well.

As far as the Genesis being in its second year, technically correct in the USA, but the 2015 Hyundai Genesis was completely finished in early 2014 (maybe 2013 for most stuff), and has not changed hardly at all since then, and could have made a suitable platform for a SUV. But instead, they chose to focus their efforts on the G70 first. IMO, the should have done both at the same time, or done the SUV first.

 

[EdP]

So you think that Hyundai, which makes over 4.5 million vehicles a year, doesn't have more design staff than RR (even with help from BMW)?

BTW, I think RR did most of the design themselves, except for components I mentioned (like drivetrain). Making a SUV based on the same platform as an existing sedan is not rocket science.

Of course they do, but they are also designing new cars for Hyundai, the G70 and whatever else is on the schedule. As I said before, we don't know the overall plan and available resources. Easy to sit at home and complain, but I've seen no concrete suggestions or plan modifications. Surely you have them. Fastest way is not always the best. We won't know until we see it.

I imagine RR did use BMW resources for drivetrain and perhaps more. They probably added their own luxury touches that sets them apart from other car companies. Underneath it may be an X5

Just curious, did you think the US should have beat Sputnik?

 

[Mark_888]

Of course they do, but they are also designing new cars for Hyundai, the G70 and whatever else is on the schedule. As I said before, we don't know the overall plan and available resources. Easy to sit at home and complain, but I've seen no concrete suggestions or plan modifications. Surely you have them. Fastest way is not always the best. We won't know until we see it.

I imagine RR did use BMW resources for drivetrain and perhaps more. They probably added their own luxury touches that sets them apart from other car companies. Underneath it may be an X5

Just curious, did you think the US should have beat Sputnik?

The RR SUV is called the Cullinan, "the culmination of years of design refinement, the manifestation of an audacious vision to make luxury off-road travel a reality for the first time."

Obviosly RR uses BMW drivetrains, just like Hyundai and Genesis use the drivetrains developed jointly by a subsidiary of Hyundai and Kia. I doubt there will be any newly designed engine used exclusively for the Genesis SUV's. "Maybe" they will upgrade their AWD H-Track system, I don't know. At RR, aside from engines and transmissions, there was considerable design work done at RR, completely independent from BMW. Here is a video on the new RR Cullinane SUV:
Rolls-Royce Cullinan – Launch

As you may (or may not) recall, Hyundai used transmissions from ZF and Aisin (Jointly owned by Toyota and BorgWarner at the time) on the 2009-2011 Hyundai Genesis models. Bothe the 4.6 and 3.8 engines were already in used by other Hyundai or Kia automobiles.

The whole point of mentioning the new RR SUV, is that virtually every luxury and super luxury brand now has an SUV (or will have by end of this year), and they all beat Genesis to market. To me, that is disconcerting, Not that just one beat them, but all of them beat Genesis to market by a considerable margin. I am talking about brands such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, Maserati, etc (the list is incredible). In the real world, evaluation is done relative to competitors, and Genesis is last. IMO, last is not good enough, and I don't want to hear any excuses.

As the Worldwide head of the Genesis brand, Manfred Fitzgerald, remarked about the problems getting Genesis registered to sell as a separate brand in each USA state said, "It was an oversight." Yes, it was, and it was oversight to fail to deliver an SUV in line with all of their competitors.

Sputnik was a PR project. Building and selling automobiles is the real world mission of the Hyundai and all its competitors. It's not just PR, it's how they make money and employ people and deliver value to company shareholders (owners).

 

[Sal Collaziano]

As far as the new Santa Fe, I am sure it will be a nice car, but I doubt they will get Lexus RX prices for it. If you are saying that it will be a nice as a RX, we will have to see. If so, they should do very well.

It's as close to the Lexus RX as it can be without actually being a copy. Genesis Motors could have used the Santa Fe with Genesis sheetmetal but they decided against it for one reason or another. I imagine they want to use Hyundai for their soft, front wheel drive "Lexus" luxury-oriented approach with CUVs - and Genesis for a more performance-oriented "Infiniti" approach. To successfully accomplish that, they need to use a new platform. Could they have used the G70 or G90 platform? Sure. But they didn't. Was it a mistake? Probably. Now they're late to the game. But, maybe it'll turn out to be "not such a bad thing" considering Genesis should have a pretty good name in the minds of consumers as a result of the G90, G70 and upcoming, updated G80...

 

[EdP]

The RR SUV is called the Cullinan, "the culmination of years of design refinement, the manifestation of an audacious vision to make luxury off-road travel a reality for the first time."

The whole point of mentioning the new RR SUV, is that virtually every luxury and super luxury brand now has an SUV (or will have by end of this year), and they all beat Genesis to market. To me, that is disconcerting, Not that just one beat them, but all of them beat Genesis to market by a considerable margin.

Sputnik was a PR project. Building and selling automobiles is the real world mission of the Hyundai and all its competitors. It's not just PR, it's how they make money and employ people and deliver value to company shareholders (owners).

Funny how RR says they want to make luxury off road available. I bet one out of a hundred may get parked on a grass lawn at some time. I've never seen a mud covered H2 Hummer either, but hey, do what you want with your millions.

The other brands you mention are part of a brand evolution. They have all been taken over by mass market auto makers and are now going to milk the name value, same as others have done with retail brands. Sure, they will be high end, but my guess is a Lamborghini SUV is more affordable than the sports car versions. In the name of profits they may water down the value of the nameplate on the sport cars that made them famous. We'll see once they become more common. I hope they don't ruin the brand like mega corporations have done with every other product. Hard to even find decent ice cream as old brands like Breyers was cheapened.

I don't find it disconcerting at all that Genesis is last. No excuses, but there are reasons. Corporate America is very concerned about next quarter while the Asian mindset thinks long term goals. We don't know those goals either but the lack of an SUV does not affect my life so I don't care if it never comes. I don't want one. I may take a Cullinan if given one, but the front end is ugly.

Sputnik may have been a PR project but it sure rattled a lot of people here in the USA.

 

[Mark_888]

Funny how RR says they want to make luxury off road available. I bet one out of a hundred may get parked on a grass lawn at some time. I've never seen a mud covered H2 Hummer either, but hey, do what you want with your millions.

The other brands you mention are part of a brand evolution. They have all been taken over by mass market auto makers and are now going to milk the name value, same as others have done with retail brands. Sure, they will be high end, but my guess is a Lamborghini SUV is more affordable than the sports car versions. In the name of profits they may water down the value of the nameplate on the sport cars that made them famous. We'll see once they become more common. I hope they don't ruin the brand like mega corporations have done with every other product. Hard to even find decent ice cream as old brands like Breyers was cheapened.

I don't find it disconcerting at all that Genesis is last. No excuses, but there are reasons. Corporate America is very concerned about next quarter while the Asian mindset thinks long term goals. We don't know those goals either but the lack of an SUV does not affect my life so I don't care if it never comes. I don't want one. I may take a Cullinan if given one, but the front end is ugly.

Sputnik may have been a PR project but it sure rattled a lot of people here in the USA.

You are correct that most people don't take their SUV's off road, but it is the fantasy that counts. Most people don't take their sport sedans to a race track either. So what?

No, the other super luxury brands with SUVs are not all owned by very large automakers. But even if they were, so what? Hyundai Motor (not even counting their 1/3 share of Kia) made 4.5 million vehicles last year, which I believe ranked them about 5th largest in the world (Kia is about number 8). Are you saying that Hyundai Motor is too small to bring a SUV to market in a timely manner?

And no, the super-luxury SUV's do not cheapen their brand. They are very expensive and with a lot of engineering. In most cases, they are not going to be race cars, due to vehicle dynamics of an SUV and their high center of gravity, but most of them have very powerful engines. Many (if not most) of luxury SUV's are now the top selling models in their brand. I know that is even true for the Bentley Bentayga SUV, which comes in W12, V8, Diesel. and Hybrid models.

I was watching a science fiction movie about 10 years ago, and everyone was driving a SUV. The future is now. The sedan is dead.

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[EdP]

No, the other super luxury brands with SUVs are not all owned by very large automakers. But even if they were, so what? Hyundai Motor (not even counting their 1/3 share of Kia) made 4.5 million vehicles last year, which I believe ranked them about 5th largest in the world (Kia is about number 8). Are you saying that Hyundai Motor is too small to bring a SUV to market in a timely manner?
The future is now. The sedan is dead.

No, did not say that at all, but the entire discussion is what is a timely manner? You have complained it it too long and too late. What you and I think does not matter, only what Hyundai/Genesis management think. We really don't know, do we?

The sedan is diminished, but not dead. The G80 is the best vehicle on the market for me. Maybe 5 days a year I wish I still had a convertible but the other 360 is windows up and climate control.

 

[Mark_888]

No, did not say that at all, but the entire discussion is what is a timely manner?

Timely is not being dead last. Making automobile is a business, and it is competitive, and the performance of management is made in comparson to the competition, not what Hyundai management decides in their own mind.

For 2017, Hyundai (not counting Kia) sold about 4.5 million vehicles, but they missed their own goals of selling over 5 million.

 

[YEH]

I really don't think so. They do use some BMW components, like the drivetrain, but the rest of the vehicle is pretty much a RR design and the assembly is pretty much handmade. From what I read, the new SUV is an all-aluminum substructure that is used in an existing RR sedan, which is probably the biggest factor in speed to market.

Bingo!

The Cullinan rides on RR's Architecture of Luxury platform which was first used on the Phantom VIII and will be used on other RR models down the road.

They had a platform in place, Genesis did not.

In fact, RR is beating its parent, BMW to the large CUV game; the X7 won't hit the lots til late this year or maybe not even until early 2019 - which, btw is when the GV80 is due to be launched (in Korea).

Don't know why there is a need to constantly harp on this - we all know that the Genesis CUVs are coming and that they are on the time-table that they are on due to time-frame of developing the next gen Genesis platform.

BMW waited on a full-size CUV until it had developed the new (lighter-weight) CLAR platform which underpins the 7 Series (and will underpin pretty much every BMW model going forward).

The current Genesis RWD platform is heavy, so using it to underpin CUVs would have caused a weight problem even greater than what Genesis has already experienced for its sedans.

Genesis was not going to develop its CUVs on Hyundai's old FWD drive platforms (which underpin the Santa Fe Sport, Tucson, etc.) and even if they had opted to go w/ the cheaper FWD option, they would have waited until the newer platform(s) which underpins the new Santa Fe, the upcoming Palisade and the next gen Tucson.

Which would have meant that a Genesis CUV based on the new Santa Fe platform probably wouldn't have launched yet in Korea (the Santa Fe gets priority) and at best would probably have seen a release some time later this year - so all in all, wouldn't have made that much of a difference in terms of getting to market.

This isn't just about Genesis vs RR. RR is probably the last (or close to last) luxury or super-luxury brand to bring a SUV to market, except of course Genesis which appears to be dead last.

Genesis still hasn't launched the G70 here yet (which is another matter), but Canada just got it.

An automaker doesn't want all its product launches to be bunched together as it causes problems when the models hit the end of their respective life-cycles.

Let's just hope Genesis keeps to its timeline and launches the GV80 next year.

Timely is not being dead last. Making automobile is a business, and it is competitive, and the performance of management is made in comparson to the competition, not what Hyundai management decides in their own mind.

For 2017, Hyundai (not counting Kia) sold about 4.5 million vehicles, but they missed their own goals of selling over 5 million.

And much of missing that sales target for 2017 was due to China where Hyundai sales were pummeled due to the boycott over the dispute over THAAD.

There is a time-line for developing new platforms and rationale behind the choices that are made.

For instance, Hyundai didn't engineer the 1G Genesis platform w/ AWD capability (even tho they knew that AWD was important for the NA market) b/c they wanted to keep things simpler for their first run thru (knowing that couldn't totally mess up when it came to reliability).

People constantly gnashing about the lack of AWD availability wasn't going to make it happen faster - AWD was only going to be available w/ the 2G Genesis/G80 platform.

That 2G platform isn't really suitable for CUV duty due to its weight - which is why Genesis CUVs will be underpinned by the lighter weight next gen platform (which is being developed within the normal time-frame of engineering new platforms).

Yeah, one could say that Hyundai should have engineered the 2G platform to be lighter from the start, but maybe Hyundai didn't have the engineering expertise and/or were willing to eschew doing such a thing due to cost and its ramifications (automakers like Cadillac and Jaguar had to scrimp on their interiors due to so much of their R&D investment going into their lightweight platforms).

 

[EdP]

Timely is not being dead last. Making automobile is a business, and it is competitive, and the performance of management is made in comparson to the competition, not what Hyundai management decides in their own mind.

For 2017, Hyundai (not counting Kia) sold about 4.5 million vehicles, but they missed their own goals of selling over 5 million.

Timely means on time. What was the actual goal and how bad did they miss it?

Business is competitive but you and I don't get to decide when a product should be on the market. They were a sales loser, but a Genesis SUV would not have made it an increse unless they sold over a half million of them. They maybe should have gone after the Argentina market that had a big increase. Global car sales analysis 2017 - carsalesbase.com

 

[Mark_888]

They had a platform in place, Genesis did not..

What's wrong with the Genesis G80 as a platform (which is same as 2015 Hyundai Genesis)?

All the major automakers are going to global architectures for efficiency and speed to market. Without a global architecture, Hyundai is dead meat.

Here is an article about the Toyota Global Architecture and why everyone is moving in that direction:
How the Toyota New Global Architecture Will Impact Mass-Car Building

 

[joneillnj]

Hyundai (not even counting Kia) sold 4.5 million vehicles in 2017. They missed their sales target of 5.08 million units by 10%.

RR sold 3,362 vehicles in 2017, and I believe they are still mostly handmade. So comparing RR to Hyundai is kind of ridiculous.

I assume that one of the main reasons that Hyundai missed their target is that they didn't have the right kind of vehicles available to sell.

I completely disagree that they could do the G70 much faster than a SUV. I believe the exact opposite is true. All they needed to do (what others have done) is take the Genesis (aka G80) platform and raise the road clearance up to 8" (from about 5"), change the spring and shock rates a little bit, put on bigger wheels, and redo the external sheet metal and interior in the shape of an SUV. The drivetrains could remain exactly the same. Many other automakers have done this also, where their highly successful SUV is based on the same platform as an existing sedan.

The G70 was a brand new platform that required redesign from scratch.

As I explained above (maybe you missed it), they could have converted the Genesis (G80) platform to a RWD SUV faster than creating the brand new G70 platform. That's probably what they did anyway.

The point about basing it on the FWD platform was if they continued to sell the Genesis at Hyundai dealers. It was brought up that they didn't want a RWD SUV if there was no Genesis Motors brand.

The idea that Genesis is right out of the gate going to be better, and/or make more money, and be more prestigious, than Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti is so far-fetched it borders on megalomania. Besides, I was only talking about their first attempt, and they could have refined their products later with 2nd generation models, in the same manner as they did when they completely revamped the Genesis sedan in 2015 (which is the same as the 2017 G80).

I don't understand why it so hard to grasp (and admit to) the idea that Hyundai (including Genesis) made some bad decisions about the kinds of vehicles to produce for the USA market). Part of that may have been incorrect guesses about oil prices, but they are way behind other manufacturers in the SUV segment of the business.

The G80 is already too heavy a platform for the sedans - that would seem a bad base for an SUV’s fuel efficiency/performance.

Bingo!

The Cullinan rides on RR's Architecture of Luxury platform which was first used on the Phantom VIII and will be used on other RR models down the road.

They had a platform in place, Genesis did not.

In fact, RR is beating its parent, BMW to the large CUV game; the X7 won't hit the lots til late this year or maybe not even until early 2019 - which, btw is when the GV80 is due to be launched (in Korea).

Don't know why there is a need to constantly harp on this - we all know that the Genesis CUVs are coming and that they are on the time-table that they are on due to time-frame of developing the next gen Genesis platform.

BMW waited on a full-size CUV until it had developed the new (lighter-weight) CLAR platform which underpins the 7 Series (and will underpin pretty much every BMW model going forward).

The current Genesis RWD platform is heavy, so using it to underpin CUVs would have caused a weight problem even greater than what Genesis has already experienced for its sedans.

Genesis was not going to develop its CUVs on Hyundai's old FWD drive platforms (which underpin the Santa Fe Sport, Tucson, etc.) and even if they had opted to go w/ the cheaper FWD option, they would have waited until the newer platform(s) which underpins the new Santa Fe, the upcoming Palisade and the next gen Tucson.

Which would have meant that a Genesis CUV based on the new Santa Fe platform probably wouldn't have launched yet in Korea (the Santa Fe gets priority) and at best would probably have seen a release some time later this year - so all in all, wouldn't have made that much of a difference in terms of getting to market.





Genesis still hasn't launched the G70 here yet (which is another matter), but Canada just got it.

An automaker doesn't want all its product launches to be bunched together as it causes problems when the models hit the end of their respective life-cycles.

Let's just hope Genesis keeps to its timeline and launches the GV80 next year.





And much of missing that sales target for 2017 was due to China where Hyundai sales were pummeled due to the boycott over the dispute over THAAD.

There is a time-line for developing new platforms and rationale behind the choices that are made.

For instance, Hyundai didn't engineer the 1G Genesis platform w/ AWD capability (even tho they knew that AWD was important for the NA market) b/c they wanted to keep things simpler for their first run thru (knowing that couldn't totally mess up when it came to reliability).

People constantly gnashing about the lack of AWD availability wasn't going to make it happen faster - AWD was only going to be available w/ the 2G Genesis/G80 platform.

That 2G platform isn't really suitable for CUV duty due to its weight - which is why Genesis CUVs will be underpinned by the lighter weight next gen platform (which is being developed within the normal time-frame of engineering new platforms).

Yeah, one could say that Hyundai should have engineered the 2G platform to be lighter from the start, but maybe Hyundai didn't have the engineering expertise and/or were willing to eschew doing such a thing due to cost and its ramifications (automakers like Cadillac and Jaguar had to scrimp on their interiors due to so much of their R&D investment going into their lightweight platforms).

Well said and makes perfect sense - as opposed to other’s silly and constant complaints!

 

[EdP]

What's wrong with the Genesis G80 as a platform (which is same as 2015 Hyundai Genesis)?

Good question for an automotive engineer. Anyone here qualified to answer that?

 

[YEH]

So you think that Hyundai, which makes over 4.5 million vehicles a year, doesn't have more design staff than RR (even with help from BMW)?

BTW, I think RR did most of the design themselves, except for components I mentioned (like drivetrain). Making a SUV based on the same platform as an existing sedan is not rocket science.

Again, Hyundai did not have an existing suitable platform (even FWD), and Hyundai has been pretty busy revamping and expanding its own CUV lineup (which is more important) as well as increasing its footprint when it comes to BEVs and fuel cells.

Here are just the CUV models that Hyundai recently launched or will be launching in the near future.

- new Santa Fe
- Nexo fuel cell
- Kona
- Palisade
- BEV CUV
- B segment CUV
- Tucson facelift to be followed by next gen Tucson

And that's not counting the China-only models.

How many models does RR have?

I think the issue of the Genesis brand is not clear cut. Genesis brand has existed in Korea since 2008. It's mainly in the US that it was sold as a Hyundai, due to a decision by HMA help improve the image of the Hyundai brand name. Keep in mind that a separate brand does not necessarily mean separate dealerships, and that decision is again a USA specific issue.

Already correcting you a # of times over this and yet, you keep repeating it.

The Genesis brand was launched in Korea in late 2015.

The only Genesis that existed in 2008 was the Hyundai Genesis - sure, it had its own special badging but that's how luxury models are often done in Korea and Japan (the Equus also had its own special badging).

As far as the new Santa Fe, I am sure it will be a nice car, but I doubt they will get Lexus RX prices for it. If you are saying that it will be a nice as a RX, we will have to see. If so, they should do very well.

Likely will have to go up to the Palisades to get RX pricing; but the pricing of the new Santa Fe in top trim form should intersect w/ the base price of the RX (which is why using the Santa Fe FWD platform would have caused problems when it came to pricing for Genesis).

As far as the Genesis being in its second year, technically correct in the USA, but the 2015 Hyundai Genesis was completely finished in early 2014 (maybe 2013 for most stuff), and has not changed hardly at all since then, and could have made a suitable platform for a SUV. But instead, they chose to focus their efforts on the G70 first. IMO, the should have done both at the same time, or done the SUV first.

How many times do I have to repeat this before you get it?

The current platform is not suitable for CUV duty as it would have an even greater problem when it comes to weight than what the G80 and G90 already have; that's why Genesis is using the next gen platform (and along the same lines, why BMW waited until its lighter weight CLAR platform was finished to develop the X7).

 

[Mark_888]

The G80 is already too heavy a platform for th
Well said and makes perfect sense - as opposed to other’s silly and constant complaints!

I don't what to hear any more excuses. Always finishing last, missing sales targets by 10% because they don't have the right vehicles.

You may call that perfect sense, but I call it underperformance. If an incompetent employee performs badly, you seem to be saying they should not be penalized in their performance review. You are saying their poor performance makes perfect sense since they are incompetent..

 

[joneillnj]

What's wrong with the Genesis G80 as a platform (which is same as 2015 Hyundai Genesis)?

As others have said (many times), the G80 platform is quite the “porker”. This would only get worse when used to create an SUV. YEH laid out sound rationale as opposed to your constant complaints. Genesis seems to have had a plan in place. As the market has evolved in the last few years, I’m sure they’d like to have their SUV’s sooner - but that is not what their roadmap ever showed. Sorry if that does not meet your expectations.

Genesis product roadmap leaked

The question I have is: are you planning on buying a GV90 and is the timeline that they have laid out for a few years causing issues for you with a pending new vehicle purchase need? If not, why the hell are you so obsessed with bitching about how bad you perceive everything to be at Genesis?