New Luxury SUV's from Rolls Royce and Aston Martin

[joneillnj]

This video discusses both Buggatti and McLaren, but neither of them even makes sedans, so not sure if they will make SUVs.

Wow - this link may help you quite a bit when reading posts:

If you think that just because Genesis has an SUV before Bugatti and McLaren (which we don't even know for sure) that it will solve all of Genesis' problems, you are smoking something.

Again:

This idea that Genesis Motors is a super luxury brand, and Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti are beneath them, is sheer folly. Maybe the Genesis vehicles themselves are quite good, but they are having to sell them at highly discounted prices (as can be seen on the discussion of G90 leasing).

who said this and this is relevant to the thread how? Geez, try to focus!

MB, BMW, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc all have a full stable of SUV vehicles, and have had them for years.

Meanwhile, ALL of those companies have been in existence for MANY years - while Genesis Motors is about 2 years old. Genesis Motors leaked roadmap clearly includes SUV's by 2020. I'm sorry you can't seem to comprehend that and it is later than you could obviously build a better SUV than the competition yourself with your vast knowledge and resources - and one more time:

 

[joneillnj]

They have confirmed it is a 2019 model, and they will take orders in 2018 as a 2019 model. They cant confirm customer delivery dates because they are custom made, and it depends on how many orders they get. The only sell about 4000 vehicles per year.

Comparing the RR ordering and manufacturing process to a mass produced car like Genesis is ludicrous.

Lol... and, again, from the guy who started this thread about Rolls Royce having an SUV before Genesis.

BTW - you said "The RR Cullinan SUV is being released as a 2019 model, which means it will be available in 2018" which is not a published fact (unless you can point to official RR communication of such). You were corrected and now want to deflect to be about ordering dates! Geez, I could not make this cr_p up if I tried. You are a piece of work!

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Genesis Motors CUVs will be available when they can bring the best examples of their manufacturing capabilities to the market. CUVs are every brand's best selling priducts and Genesis Motors is apparently patient and willing to wait, and be last, instead of rushing something to market that will get bad reviews which can potentially damage the brand for many years.

 

[Mark_888]

I only know what I read since I don’t work for RR. I am guessing you don’t either.

From AP May 11, 2018
“The Cullinan’s 6.75 liter, twin-turbo V12 engine has 563 horsepower. The SUV includes Rolls’ “magic air ride,” but drivers can press an “off road” button to hit the trails.

Deliveries are expected to begin in 2019.”

That could be over a year and a half from now! I do see some places where they call it the 2018 RR but that would meant it should have been released last year. Heads are going to roll at RR if it isn’t sooner.

I believe it has been announced as a 2019 model. RR is different because they are custom ordered and custom made. They already have some on display at RR headquarters that reviewers have had a chance to make videos about (and they are not concept cars).

This whole discussion is turning into something ridiculous, as people are grasping for straws to say that Genesis has not had any mis-steps. I am not just talking about the SUV, but also and chiefly the US dealer fiasco. Genesis Motors officials are saying that USA car franchise laws are complicated then they realized. That is poor planning and incompetence in my opinion.

Plus, according to some members of this forum who have posted about the their experiences, their G80 and G90 are being registered by their state DMV as a Hyundai, not a Genesis, especially if Genesis finance is involved. When people have called up Genesis customer service, they are being told that is correct, and Hyundai Finance is saying the cars are a Hyundai brand, not a Genesis brand.

 

[Mark_888]

Lol... and, again, from the guy who started this thread about Rolls Royce having an SUV before Genesis.

BTW - you said "The RR Cullinan SUV is being released as a 2019 model, which means it will be available in 2018" which is not a published fact (unless you can point to official RR communication of such). You were corrected and now want to deflect to be about ordering dates! Geez, I could not make this cr_p up if I tried. You are a piece of work!

No, I was not corrected. How much would you like to bet that they first RR Cullinan SUV is delivered before the first Genesis SUV?

Here is a link that mentions the 2019 RR Cullinan SUV, and there are many other links if you want to google it:
2019 Rolls-Royce Cullinan First Look - Motor Trend

 

[Mark_888]

Meanwhile, ALL of those companies have been in existence for MANY years - while Genesis Motors is about 2 years old. Genesis Motors leaked roadmap clearly includes SUV's by 2020. I'm sorry you can't seem to comprehend that and it is later than you could obviously build a better SUV than the competition yourself with your vast knowledge and resources - and one more time:

Genesis Motors is not a separate company, it is just a marketing brand. It is part of Hyundai. The 2017-2018 G80 is nearly identical to the 2015-2016 Hyundai Genesis. Genesis Finance is registering the G80 and G90 with state DMV's as a Hyundai according to many owners on this forum.

The headquarters of Genesis Motors America is in the same location as Hyundai Motor America, and the GM of Genesis Motors America reports to the CEO of Hyundai Motor America.

The Genesis has been made at the Hyundai manufacturing plants in the Korea since 2008. In Korea, the Genesis has been sold as a Genesis since 2008, with ZERO Hyundai markings or logos on the car. So the idea of it being a separate brand is not new, except in the USA.

 

[joneillnj]

No, I was not corrected.

Ummmm... actually - you were corrected as you very clearly stated, and I quote, "The RR Cullinan SUV is being released as a 2019 model, which means it will be available in 2018". Please do provide an official basis for this statement that you posted as if it was fact.

How much would you like to bet that they first RR Cullinan SUV is delivered before the first Genesis SUV?

What?? Where did I ever say Genesis would deliver an SUV before Rolls Royce? I've linked the leaked Genesis roadmap a few times which shows SUV's by 2020. Why do you not seem to be able comprehend that?

Here is a link that mentions the 2019 RR Cullinan SUV, and there are many other links if you want to google it:
2019 Rolls-Royce Cullinan First Look - Motor Trend

Huh?? This link that you provided says "most Cullinans arriving in the U.S. from early 2019 will have cost their new owners at least $400,000."! Nice try - but it just proves you wrong!

 

[Mark_888]

Huh?? This link that you provided says "most Cullinans arriving in the U.S. from early 2019 will have cost their new owners at least $400,000."! Nice try - but it just proves you wrong!

The US is not the only market in the world. If you google 2019 RR Cullinan, you will see that the media is being told it is a 2019 model. Whether any deliveries take place in the US during 2018 or early 2019, I don't know. Ordering and constructing a RR is not like mass produced cars. I would bet a lot of money that the orders with firm prices will be taken in 2018. Some parts of the world may get some in 2018, and even though I don't know for sure, I do know the media is calling it a 2019 RR Cullinan.

 

[joneillnj]

Genesis Motors is not a separate company, it is just a marketing brand. It is part of Hyundai. The 2017-2018 G80 is nearly identical to the 2015-2016 Hyundai Genesis. Genesis Finance is registering the G80 and G90 with state DMV's as a Hyundai according to many owners on this forum.

The headquarters of Genesis Motors America is in the same location as Hyundai Motor America, and the GM of Genesis Motors America reports to the CEO of Hyundai Motor America.

The Genesis has been made at the Hyundai manufacturing plants in the Korea since 2008. In Korea, the Genesis has been sold as a Genesis since 2008, with ZERO Hyundai markings or logos on the car. So the idea of it being a separate brand is not new, except in the USA.

Geez -where did I say it was a separate company? It is a standalone brand, much like Lexus is to Toyota, Infiniti is to Nissan, Acurais to Honda, etc.,. And, in case you did not get It by now - no one here us talking about Korea! And that's all I can take of you for now - you make my brain hurt with your attempts to rationalize of your off-base posts!

 

[joneillnj]

You sa

The US is not the only market in the world. If you google 2019 RR Cullinan, you will see that the media is being told it is a 2019 model. Whether any deliveries take place in the US during 2018 or early 2019, I don't know. Ordering and constructing a RR is not like mass produced cars. I would bet a lot of money that the orders with firm prices will be taken in 2018. Some parts of the world may get some in 2018, I don't know, but the media is calling it a 2019 RR Cullinan.

Dude - you posted "it will be available in 2018". Now you say "I don't know"? Repeat after me: "I posted sometning as fact when I had no facts and now can't admit I'm wrong when challenged"! Lol...

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[Mark_888]

Geez -where did I say it was a separate company? It is a standalone brand, much like Lexus is to Toyota, Infiniti is to Nissan, Acurais to Honda, etc.,. And, in case you did not get It by now - no one here us talking about Korea! And that's all I can take of you for now - you make my brain hurt with your attempts to rationalize of your off-base posts!

You said Genesis is only 2 years old, even though they have been selling the Genesis sedan since 2008 as a Genesis in Korea (without any mention of the Hyundai brand).

What I am saying is the excuse for not having a SUV because Genesis is new, is not valid IMO. Others may disagree, and that is there right to do so.

Genesis won't have an SUV for awhile because of poor decisions they made, which I believe they would admit themselves that they would do over again if they had a chance.

 

[Mark_888]

You sa
Dude - you posted "it will be available in 2018". Now you say "I don't know"? Repeat after me: "I posted sometning as fact when I had no facts and now can't admit I'm wrong when challenged"! Lol...

You don't know either. Even though I don't know for sure, I will take bets on whether the first RR Cullinan orders are taken in 2018 with firm prices, and since they are custom built, that is what counts. If the car is popular, buyers may not get delivery for several years.

The so called "fact" that you mentioned is from one article that says they will start arriving in the US in early 2019. Nothing about when they go on sale, and nothing about deliveries outside the US.

 

[Mcc]

Plus, according to some members of this forum who have posted about the their experiences, their G80 and G90 are being registered by their state DMV as a Hyundai, not a Genesis, especially if Genesis finance is involved. When people have called up Genesis customer service, they are being told that is correct, and Hyundai Finance is saying the cars are a Hyundai brand, not a Genesis brand.

While we are cleaning up loose end let’s refresh our memories about the car registration. You said they are being registered as Hyundai because The folks at Genesis were lazy and incompetent. You said they should contact every DMV in every state and correct this grievous error. But although you claimed you knew what was going and why, I believe you really did not and I said at the time we did not know all the facts. Now we know that Larrymg1 has stated “My insurance company, State Farm, says it is a Genesis.
After multiple conversations with a representative of Genesis Motors, USA they definitively state that a Genesis leased or financed by Genesis Finance as a subsidiary of Hyundai Capital America will be designated a Hyundai, Model (Genesis G80).”

Your explanation and proposed remedy would not have solved anything. I don’t propose to know why Hyundai had to do it this way but I guess it could have been the way the corporate structure is set up. Just speculating here. Eventually i think it will all be revealed, but not even the most critical journalist thought this was such an important question to ask Genesis. Maybe Larrymg1 can ask his contact why Maybe they should have not sold a single car until this was settled to your satisfaction but I believe that would be bad business if time, did not permit and sales lost.

 

[YEH]

If I'm not mistaken, the second generation Genesis Sedan was criticized for being too heavy. Reviewers said it was a great car - but the one area they didn't compete well was weight. Fuel efficiency was effected as a result. The last thing Genesis Motors wants is everyone hearing their most important products, CUVs, are heavy gas guzzlers...

If there was any real mistake made here - I believe it was for using more steel than necessary for their latest platform. Hyundai IS a steel company - but they need to put that nonsense aside and get with the program if they want to truly compete in the luxury automobile industry...

And let's not forget not offering the 5.0 G90 w/ AWD from the get-go.

Pretty sure the current platform has some aluminum bits, but not enough; furthermore, Hyundai took away aluminum body-parts from the 2G Genesis/G80 (such as the hood) in all likelihood to keep the price down, along w/ Hyundai (and Kia) having an ownership stake in a state-of the-art steel mill.

But that line of reasoning no longer holds as the Ioniq has a good amount of aluminum bits (including the hood and rear hatch) to keep the weight down.

So I expect we'll see more copious use of aluminum (or other lightweight materials) for the chassis as well as on a # of body panels.

Lexus still attracts bargain hunters. Nobody truly prefers the LS over the S-Class. But it's a great alternative for the money.

Even more so with their FWD CUVs, as well as the ES.

If Genesis had gone w/ FWD CUVs, they would have had to undercut Lexus.

But the pricing of the GV80 and GV70 (still up in the air as to whether the GV60 will be RWD or FWD) should be on par w/ RX and NX, and maybe even higher.

Most certainly, the top trims of the GV80 and GV70 will be priced higher than the top trims of the RX and NX.

And unlike the RX and NX, expect to see the GV80 and GV70 pitted against the Germans in reviews and comparison tests.

 

[Mark_888]

While we are cleaning up loose end let’s refresh our memories about the car registration. You said they are being registered as Hyundai because The folks at Genesis were lazy and incompetent. You said they should contact every DMV in every state and correct this grievous error. But although you claimed you knew what was going and why, I believe you really did not and I said at the time we did not know all the facts. Now we know that Larrymg1 has stated “My insurance company, State Farm, says it is a Genesis.
After multiple conversations with a representative of Genesis Motors, USA they definitively state that a Genesis leased or financed by Genesis Finance as a subsidiary of Hyundai Capital America will be designated a Hyundai, Model (Genesis G80).”

Your explanation and proposed remedy would not have solved anything. I don’t propose to know why Hyundai had to do it this way but I guess it could have been the way the corporate structure is set up. Just speculating here. Eventually i think it will all be revealed, but not even the most critical journalist thought this was such an important question to ask Genesis. Maybe Larrymg1 can ask his contact why Maybe they should have not sold a single car until this was settled to your satisfaction but I believe that would be bad business if time, did not permit and sales lost.

I will have to admit that I was shocked to find out that G80's and G90's are being registered as a Hyundai in some states at the request of Hyundai finance. My suspicion now is that was being done to get around the state franchise laws that said you can't take away a auto franchise (Genesis) from a franchise holder, at will. So Hyundai was using that to claim that the G80 and G90 were never really a Genesis, that no Genesis brand will exist until model year 2019, and no dealers where ever awarded a Genesis franchise (even those who built special areas to display them), so they could limit the number of the new Genesis franchises going forward to 100 dealers starting in 2019. I admit that not even I realized or suspected that Hyundai/Genesis could be that devious (but I guess they have lawyers like everyone else).

However, I do think they initially, back in 2016 (when the first 2017 G80's were released), and when they claimed a new brand was being created, but before they figured out how or when to have completely separate Genesis dealers (they first said Genesis brand would be sold at Hyundai dealers, and maybe later separate dealerships would exist), that Genesis Motors did not understand all the things needed to be done to launch Genesis as separate brand, even if initially sold at Hyundai dealers. As Mr Fitzgerald said (head of the Genesis Global brand), they made some mistakes in that area, and "overlooked" some things, and they didn't completely understand the complexity of US state auto franchise laws.

So I admit I was 50% wrong. But even if I was 100% wrong, it still seems to me that the whole Genesis dealer rollout in the USA has been a fiasco.

You on the other hand. seem to believe that they know exactly what they are doing, and it is all part of a grand master plan going pretty much on schedule. That is your right to say it, and believe it, but I personally am not buying it.

 

[YEH]

This idea that Genesis Motors is a super luxury brand, and Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti are beneath them, is sheer folly. Maybe the Genesis vehicles themselves are quite good, but they are having to sell them at highly discounted prices (as can be seen on the discussion of G90 leasing).

MB, BMW, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc all have a full stable of SUV vehicles, and have had them for years.

And as pointed out, how long have those brands been in existence?

And wouldn't say that the Japanese or for that matter, BMW, have had a full stable of CUVs for years.

BMW still doesn't have a proper 3-row CUV (which is coming w/ the X7); one can even add Audi as the Q7 is more an X5 and GLE competitor.

Acura's CUV lineup consists of 2 models.

Lexus recently added a 3rd row version of the RX (which has been met w/ lukewarm reviews as they didn't even bother to stretch the wheelbase) and still don't have a proper 3-row CUV.

Infiniti's CUVs have been poor sellers, but have started to get their act together w/ the new QX50 and QX30.

There was no marketing for the BH380 or BH460, etc in Korea? I don't think that is correct. The concept of brand is different in Korea than in the USA.

In looking at the video, at the end it shows the Genesis brand logo, and then in English it says something about Hyundai. Did they really show that English on Korean TV when showing that ad?

Are you really his obtuse or just incredibly stubborn?

The Hyundai logo appears at the end of those commericals b/c they were still sold/known as being a Hyundai.

The Genesis logo also appears, but only for the Genesis sedan (followed by the Hyundai logo).

The Equus logo (and not Genesis) appears for the Equus (followed by the Hyundai logo).

And why the heck do you still feel the need to tell me that you think the concept of brand is different in Korea than in the USA?

When I know exactly how it is in Korea (and Japan) and have stated numerous times here - that luxury models are often sold as their own sub-brand w/ their own logo/badging, but that doesn't mean that they aren't a Hyundai or in Japan, a Toyota, etc.

For example, the Toyota Crown Athlete and Majesta...

Toyota Century (the flagship of the Toyota fleet; higher than the LS)

As stated, while they have their own distinct badging, they are still known for being Toyotas.

There was NO Genesis brand in Korea prior to late 2015; not only do Koreans say that (what, are you not going to believe them since YOU think different?), but the automotive press.

From Wards Auto -

Even Hyundai’s national sales team was surprised when its top of the line EQ900 (G90 in U.S. and other markets when it’s released next year) tallied 4,342 sales on the first day of preordering.

This new generation of the Equus is the first in the family of Genesis-brand luxury vehicles since Hyundai announced establishing a luxury-car division last month.

Hyundai dealers in Korea began receiving preorders for the EQ900 Nov. 23, and will continue to do so through Dec. 9. The official regular sales launch of the top luxury marque in Korea will take place on or before that date, according to a Hyundai spokesman.

Genesis G90 Scores in First Day of Preordering in Korea

Furthermore, how could a separate lux brand exist when there was no management/personnel for such a brand?

But it not unusual or surprising to mention that the Genesis or Equus were made by Hyundai Motor, since the Hyundai owns the Genesis brand. They were (and still are) made in Hyundai factories in Korea. Even in the USA now, both the Genesis brand, and Genesis Motors America organization are both part of Hyundai Motor America and report to the HMA CEO.

The bottom line was that on the Genesis BH going back to 2008, there was no identifying Hyundai logo anywhere on the vehicle.

You really are grasping at air.

Aren't the G80 and EQ900 also made by Hyundai? So why stop showing the Hyundai logo at the end?

In fact, they didn't stop doing that until the Genesis brand was launched in Korea and the Genesis sedan was renamed the G80; it's the SAME car - so why all of a sudden the change?

 

[Mcc]

I understand you are not buying it and that is certainly your right.

Just one clarification I would like to make in your post. The mistakes and things overlooked as said byFitzgerald was not in the rollout in general but specifically with regard to selling in Louisiana, a state with very unique laws. I don’t think they had to suspend sales anywhere else.

Specifically the article you refer to said (Golding is mine):
On July 20, Raphael sent a letter to Genesis stores in Louisiana notifying dealers that the automaker was immediately halting the shipment of Genesis vehicles to the state. The letter cited the company's lack of a license to sell Genesis vehicles in the state as the reason.

This was the result of Hyundai Motor America moving quickly to set up the brand, according to Genesis' global head, Manfred Fitzgerald.
"Everything happened at a fast pace," Fitzgerald told Automotive News. "I think it was an oversight."

I don’t see anywhere him saying Genesis didn't completely understand the complexity of US state auto franchise laws. That is a conclusion that it is your right to draw. Louisiana is a different story. Just trying to present this quote as factually and unbiased as possible.

 

[Mark_888]

BMW still doesn't have a proper 3-row CUV...

Proper? Since when are you the arbiter of what is proper? I checked the "The Amy Vanderbilt Complete Book of Etiquette," and there is nothing in there about 3-row SUV's.

The Hyundai logo appears at the end of those commercials b/c they were still sold/known as being a Hyundai.

I disagree. How do you know the Hyundai logo and text on the screen that mentioned a Hyundai slogan in English at the end of the commercial actually appeared in Korean versions of the advertisements. That seems a bit strange to me, and it clearly looked to me like it was added after the fact in a very sloppy way (with white text and logo completely different than the rest of the commercial). I would think it would be very insulting to a Korean person to have some English text slapped on the end of a Korean TV commercial.

As I said before, there has never been a Hyundai logo or nameplate on the Genesis sold in Korea since its inception in 2008.

 

[Mark_888]

Just one clarification I would like to make in your post. The mistakes and things overlooked as said byFitzgerald was not in the rollout in general but specifically with regard to selling in Louisiana, a state with very unique laws. I don’t think they had to suspend sales anywhere else.

I do recall the article about Louisiana where he was quoted. However, he admitted very recently additional FUBARs when the issue of 100 dealers blew up, and did not work out due to state franchise laws about taking away dealerships from dealers already selling the Genesis brand. He admitted that Hyundai/Genesis did not understand all the complexities of USA auto franchise laws before they came up with the idea of cutting the number of dealers to 100 going forward.

His comments previously were about Louisiana were state registration and state approval laws for selling a new brand were overlooked.

 

[YEH]

Proper? Since when are you the arbiter of what is proper? I checked the "The Amy Vanderbilt Complete Book of Etiquette," and there is nothing in there about 3-row SUV's.

Why don't you just admit that you've been proven wrong once again instead of being all butt-hurt and coming up w/ even more ridiculous things to argue about?

Does BMW presently have a MB GLS competitor? No.

And it's the automotive press that has been using terms like proper and true 3-row when it comes to the X7.

BMW's first proper three-row SUV strikes an excellent balance between comfort and engagement.

2019 BMW X7 Prototype first drive: Super-sized split personality

2019 BMW X7 Prototype Review: BMW’s First True Three-Row SUV

2019 BMW X7 Prototype Review: BMW’s First True Three-Row SUV - Motor Trend

I disagree. How do you know the Hyundai logo and text on the screen that mentioned a Hyundai slogan in English at the end of the commercial actually appeared in Korean versions of the advertisements. That seems a bit strange to me, and it clearly looked to me like it was added after the fact in a very sloppy way (with white text and logo completely different than the rest of the commercial). I would think it would be very insulting to a Korean person to have some English text slapped on the end of a Korean TV commercial.

As I said before, there has never been a Hyundai logo or nameplate on the Genesis sold in Korea since its inception in 2008.

You can disagree all you want and continue to be wrong.

As they say, there's a fine line btwn being stubborn and being a fool.


(I mean, really, you had to resort to a ridiculous accusation that someone would actually spend the time to edit a commercial to add the Hyundai logo - lol!).


There's no way anyone would think that these commercials were edited (to add the Hyundai logo at the end); also note Hyundai in the title.

And note how Genesis doesn't appear at the end of Equus commercials, but does so for the EQ900 (which totally makes sense, since the EQ900 was the first model under the Genesis brand in Korea).

But, thats's not all...

Korean auto reviewers refer to the 2G Genesis sedan as the Hyundai Genesis.

Note reference in Eng as the 2016 Hyundai Genesis test drive.


But that changed and in this video, a comparison is done btwn the Genesis G80 and the Hyundai Genesis.

At the 28s mark, the presenter refers to the grey car as the Genesis G80.

At the 51s mark, refers to the blue car as the Hyundai Genesis.

Also, the blue car has both Genesis lettering and G330 nomenclature on the rear.

And at the 8:44 mark, the blue car has a Hyundai logo on its engine cover, whereas the grey car as a Genesis logo.

And in case, you still don't believe that, in this video, it's spelled out so even the most stubborn should be able to grasp it.

At the 20s mark, there's a graphic which states Hyundai Genesis vs. Genesis G80.


And if for whatever reason, you still don't get it - here's video of the Euisun Chung, Vice Chairman of Hyundai Motors and heir to the Hyundai Group, launching the Genesis brand in Korea in Sept. of 2016 (why would they need to do such a thing if the brand was established in Korea?).

At the 8:17 mark is when Chung launches the brand.