Non R-Spec 5.0 (2012) on Hyundaiusa.com

[YEH]

With all due respect and not to out you but are you the person I found who is a market researcher for Hyundai? Or could it be that there is another "Yeh"? Does this skill level synopsis ring a bell?

Don't know of the person of whom you speak, but no, lol, I have never worked in marketing.

Three years is long time to post on this forum without owning a Genesis or Equus, and he was a involved in many contentious discussions about the 2009 suspension, despite his claims.

Praytell are my "contentious" posts on the 2009 suspension issues?

Liked I have already stated, I largely stayed away from those threads since whom am I to take issue w/ what drivers/owners have experienced?

My 2-cents based on the fact that there are 2009 owners who haven't had the issue is that there may be differing exp. due to variance in the springs supplied to Hyundai (which is something that Hyundai definitely needs to take care of if that is indeed the case).

And what? One can't comment on the Genesis b/c one isn't an owner? Auto forums are full of people commenting on cars on which they do not own (I'd say that 98% of the time, I comment on cars I have never owned.)

The reason the Avalon is not relevant, is that Car and Driver stated correctly that BMW and Infinity M both have a firmer ride than than Genesis, but don't loose control on rough roads. It has nothing to do with cushy versus firm as you are implying.

It is relevant from the POV that people are coming from - and I'm talking about the R-Spec and not the 2009 models which you seem to be referring to (I take no issue that there are 2009 models that have what is commonly referred to as a "porpoising" ride).

In the C&D review of the R-Spec, note that they did not have such issue w/ the R-Spec as they did w/ their long-term 2009 Genesis.

A more significant improvement, however, can be felt behind the wheel. Whereas our long-termer flopped into corners and crashed and clopped over expansion joints, the R-Spec offers much-improved body and wheel control, and never gets overly harsh.

Regarding the 2012 automotive reviews by the group of reviewers invited by Hyundai to review it (these reviews were posted in detail previously on this forum), almost everyone liked the 3.8 and 4.6 suspension and handling, but some (not everyone) thought that the R-Spec was "unnecessarily harsh." To me that is an alarm, but everyone can do a test drive and decide for themselves.

The key word here is "some."

Again, I find it a bit amusing that you take the word of auto scribes to heart in this case, when previously you were quick to dismiss them.

It doesn't take reading many auto reviews before one quickly notices that auto writers can have widely disparate views about the same car or aspects of said car.

Unless ALL of them say the same thing (say, the ride of the 1st gen BMW X3) - I would refrain from making such generalizations (much better if one simply states that some may find it harsh).

After all, it's not just professional reviews like the above referenced C&D review (which, to emphasis, stated that the ride of the R-Spec is not overly harsh), but other posters here have commented as to such.

The ride was harsher like the review but they might have over emphasized it a bit. For example I have went through same route on both cars and I was able to feel some road bumps on the R-spec that previously did not on V6 but there was no time where I became uneasy due to its bumpiness (I drive Cadillac Escalade and Ford Transitconnect, maybe that hardened my butt) You really have to try to feel the bumps to know it.

Furthermore, while there have been other posters who tested out the R-Spec and ultimately decided that it wasn't for them, the ones who did ended up purchasing the R-Spec seem relatively pleased thus far (no numerous complaints about the ride in contrast to that for the 2009 MY).

If you go back and read all the posts from YEH, even in just the month, you can clearly see that person has lots of inside information about what Hyundai future plans are.

Everything I have stated is "out there"; as for my some of by comments about Hyundai business in general, that's just due to my experience in business and just common sense really.

It's a bit amusing to see that just b/c I have a contrary view to yours, that the discussion is no longer about the issue at hand, but directed at my possible objectives for having said contrary view.

Let's keep it on the issue, shall we?

I have far less issue with my R-Spec suspension than I do with the OEM tires. With high quality tires, this car will ride different IMHO. Then, I believe comparisons to other cars (550i) might me more realistic, regardless of the >$30,000 difference. In most regards, the R-Spec is nine-tenths the BMW with a huge rebate.

Bingo! The suspension setting of the R-Spec is on the stiff side, but what contributes to the stiff ride are the larger wheels and low profile tires.

 

[Mark_888]

And what? One can't comment on the Genesis b/c one isn't an owner? Auto forums are full of people commenting on cars on which they do not own (I'd say that 98% of the time, I comment on cars I have never owned.)

Maybe that's the problem. At least on this forum, it is very unusual to comment on Genesis for 3 years without owning one. I don’t even know if you have driven one. I still believe that you have some current or previous connection with Hyundai or its dealers, despite your half-hearted denials.

In the C&D review of the R-Spec, note that they did not have such issue w/ the R-Spec as they did w/ their long-term 2009 Genesis.

Here is a more relevant review from C&D you have conveniently ignored that was previously posted in this very thread:

"What we were able to discern is that the moderately higher spring rates [in the R-Spec] somewhat negate the other 2012 Genesis’s breakthroughs in the ride-and-handling arena, rediscovering some of the flintiness that other models thankfully left behind [from 2009-2011 models]."
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review​

Again, I find it a bit amusing that you take the word of auto scribes to heart in this case, when previously you were quick to dismiss them.

I never said that I dismiss them. What I said was that they tend to have a preference for cars with a very firm suspension (especially publications like C&D), so even when "some" of automotive press say that the R-Spec is "overally harsh" (or similar words), then I take particular note of those comments, given their predisposition for very firm rides.

However, just for the record, it was more than C&D that made these comments, as has been documented in previous threads.

But it was not my intention to criticize the R-Spec. It was my contention that when the Genesis 5.0 becomes available (with regular Genesis V8 trim) then a lot of people will prefer that over the R-Spec since they are more interested in the HP increase than in the stiffer ride. But obviously some people do like the R-Spec suspension and will continue to purchase it.

 

[YEH]

Maybe that's the problem. At least on this forum, it is very unusual to comment on Genesis for 3 years without owning one. I don’t even know if you have driven one. I still believe that you have some current or previous connection with Hyundai or its dealers, despite your half-hearted denials.

Yes, I have driven the Genesis, as well as numerous other cars, but definitely have not driven everything on which I have commented on (as have most people on auto-enthusiast sites).

I haven't driven the R-Spec tho, but it would seem that you haven't either since you just keep referring to what some auto-reviewers have stated, instead of proferring your own experience/opinion whenever the issue of the R-Spec's ride come up (a bit hypocritical, don't you think).

And you sure have a way of twisting other people's words.

How have my denials been half-hearted?

I don't know how I can state this more emphatically - I have NEVER, NEVER worked for Hyundai or in marketing for that matter (again, you seem to want to impugn the messenger when an issue is taken up w/ your overreaching generalizations, instead of trying to defend your position on its own merits).

Here is a more relevant review from C&D you have conveniently ignored that was previously posted in this very thread:

"What we were able to discern is that the moderately higher spring rates [in the R-Spec] somewhat negate the other 2012 Genesis’s breakthroughs in the ride-and-handling arena, rediscovering some of the flintiness that other models thankfully left behind [from 2009-2011 models]."
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review​

Again, I didn't say that some people wouldn't find it harsh, but C&D ultimately could live w/ the suspension of the R-spec, unlike, say w/ the M56 which they just finished wrapping up their long-term evaluation.

Note how you conveniently left this part out - "Larger wheels—19 inches on the R-Spec—might also be partly to blame."

Also, they stated "somewhat negate/ the other 2012 Genesis’s breakthroughs in the ride-and-handling arena" - which implies that it is still improved upon the ride of pre-2012 Genesis models.

Plus, that was from C&D's 1st drive of the R-Spec, so it would be better to see what C&D thinks of after a more comprehensive test drive - which they did in which they stated this about the ride.

Whereas our long-termer flopped into corners and crashed and clopped over expansion joints, the R-Spec offers much-improved body and wheel control, and never gets overly harsh.

So in their rull review, the ride of the R-Spec seems to get a pass by C&D.

Now, is the ride of the R-Spec harsher than for the non-R-Spec trims? Sure, but get back to me when you find a vehicle in which the sports trim or the sports suspension option doesn't beget a harsher ride.

I never said that I dismiss them. What I said was that they tend to have a preference for cars with a very firm suspension (especially publications like C&D), so even when "some" of automotive press say that the R-Spec is "overally harsh" (or similar words), then I take particular note of those comments, given their predisposition for very firm rides.

Really? C&D ragged incessantly about the ride quality of the M56 (they also ragged on the ride quality of the 1st gen X3 like every other auto publication).

But it was not my intention to criticize the R-Spec. It was my contention that when the Genesis 5.0 becomes available (with regular Genesis V8 trim) then a lot of people will prefer that over the R-Spec since they are more interested in the HP increase than in the stiffer ride. But obviously some people do like the R-Spec suspension and will continue to purchase it.

Which is exactly my point; instead of making an overreaching generalization of "unnecessarily harsh" based on some auto reviewers (you, yourself, admitted that wasn't all auto reviewers), much less, apparently, your own opinion, it would have been much better to state things as I had stated it - stiffer ride than the non-Spec 2012s which some wouldn't like and others wouldn't mind based on their driving experience.

Again, since actual R-Spec owners haven't been complaining about the ride, it seems like the ride isn't an issue unlike what it was for some 2009 Genesis owners.

 

[Mark_888]

I haven't driven the R-Spec tho, but it would seem that you haven't either since you just keep referring to what some auto-reviewers have stated, instead of proferring your own experience/opinion whenever the issue of the R-Spec's ride come up (a bit hypocritical, don't you think).

No, not at all.

I don't know how I can state this more emphatically - I have NEVER, NEVER worked for Hyundai or in marketing for that matter (again, you seem to want to impugn the messenger when an issue is taken up w/ your overreaching generalizations, instead of trying to defend your position on its own merits).

That denial does not cover all the categories I originally mentioned, but you obviously don't want to discuss you job history.

Note how you conveniently left this part out - "Larger wheels—19 inches on the R-Spec—might also be partly to blame."

I didn't leave that out. The R-Spec comes with 19" wheels and I don't think anyone is going to buy the R-Spec and replace it with 18" wheels. However, Hyundai does specifically state that the shock and spring rates are tuned to have a firmer ride than the 4.6, so while the wheels are a factor, it can't be just the wheels.

Again, since actual R-Spec owners haven't been complaining about the ride, it seems like the ride isn't an issue unlike what it was for some 2009 Genesis owners.

The R-Spec ride is reportedly better than the early 2009 4.6 or 3.8 according to those who have owned both (on this forum). I would not be surprised, since the 2009 definitely had problems. But there were many, many in complete denial about 2009 suspension problems.

My main point (4th time I have repeated this) is not that the R-Spec has a terrible suspension (it doesn't), rather that when the 5.0 is available without R-Spec suspension, it will probably take sales away from R-Spec, because most people want the HP, not necessarily the R-Spec suspension.

 

[jmo51]

I don't have an issue with the R-Spec. I, like quite a few in the automotive press, said the suspension is a bit harsh on less than perfect roads (which not all reviewers even tried). I never said that the the 550i is a better deal than R-Spec, I said that BMW's in general and 550i in specific, has a firmer ride than the R-Spec but is more compliant than the R-Spec or any 2009-2011 Genesis sedan. So this whole dichotomy between firmness/soft and harsh/compliant is false. A firm suspension, even a very firm suspension, does not have to be unnecessarily harsh.

I also said that the new 2012 Genesis 5.0 without R-Spec suspension is going to crush R-Spec sales, because I think most buyers want the 5.0 HP, but not necessarily a harsher ride than the other 2012 models (which are pleasantly firm to start with). Those who disagree are welcome to offer their own opinions without personal attacks against me.

I really don't want to rehash all these suspension issues, since there are thousands of posts regarding this subject on this forum going back 3 years. I expect the next generation Genesis (2014 MY ?) to have an improved suspension again without an increase in cost (at least not due the suspension). But even the 2012 3.8, 4.6, and 5.0 are much improved over the 2010/2011 suspensions, which were an improvement over the 2009.

"To me that is an alarm, but everyone can do a test drive and decide for themselves".

Have you given any thought to driving an R-Spec and deciding for yourself??? You might arrive at different conclusion.

Have a great Thanksgiving

That is possible, but not likely, given that the number of reviews I read about it and all the Genesis suspension issues I know about going back to 2009. Even if I were interested in a new Genesis (not likely since my current one only has 25K miles), I would likely get the V6, which has plenty of power for me.

No, not at all.


That denial does not cover all the categories I originally mentioned, but you obviously don't want to discuss you job history.


I didn't leave that out. The R-Spec comes with 19" wheels and I don't think anyone is going to buy the R-Spec and replace it with 18" wheels. However, Hyundai does specifically state that the shock and spring rates are tuned to have a firmer ride than the 4.6, so while the wheels are a factor, it can't be just the wheels.


The R-Spec ride is reportedly better than the early 2009 4.6 or 3.8 according to those who have owned both (on this forum). I would not be surprised, since the 2009 definitely had problems. But there were many, many in complete denial about 2009 suspension problems.

My main point (4th time I have repeated this) is not that the R-Spec has a terrible suspension (it doesn't), rather that when the 5.0 is available without R-Spec suspension, it will probably take sales away from R-Spec, because most people want the HP, not necessarily the R-Spec suspension.

Mark,

As I recall your description was "the "back-breaking suspension of the R-Spec".

 

[Mark_888]

Mark,

As I recall your description was "the "back-breaking suspension of the R-Spec".

So sue me because no one has broken their back driving a R-Spec. But it is not well-manored for many (like all early 2009 trims), and according to some respected automotive reviewers "unnecessarily harsh" even though the same reviewers generally prefer cars with very firm suspensions.

 

[jmo51]

So sue me because no one has broken their back driving a R-Spec. But it is not well-manored for many (like all early 2009 trims), and according to some respected automotive reviewers "unnecessarily harsh" even though the same reviewers generally prefer cars with very firm suspensions.

Geeeeeeessssssshhhhhhhh!!!!!

And you know this because you've driven one??????

 

[Mark_888]

Geeeeeeessssssshhhhhhhh!!!!!

And you know this because you've driven one??????

No, because I can read:

"...according to some respected automotive reviewers."

Members have quoted automotive press reviews thousands of times on this forum without having driven the respective cars (either the Genesis or the competitive car being compared). There seems to be "selective" memory here, in that people have quoted positive reviews without having driven a particular car, and no one complains.

 

[jmo51]

I, like quite a few in the automotive press, said the suspension is a bit harsh on less than perfect roads (which not all reviewers even tried

No, because I can read:

"...according to some respected automotive reviewers."

Members have quoted automotive press reviews thousands of times on this forum without having driven the respective cars (either the Genesis or the competitive car being compared). There seems to be "selective" memory here, in that people have quoted positive reviews without having driven a particular car, and no one complains.

You really should drive an R-Spec like you suggest you have.

I'm done with this one.

 

[Gambler]

Since Mark 888 and YEH can't keep it on topic I'm closing this thread. If you guys want to start another thread in the lounge debating who YEH really is go for it. The suspension argument is growing old. Could it be better, of course. Could it be worse, of course. Move on.

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