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Oh, how the mighty (toyota) have fallen

BocaDave

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From today's New York Times:

"Toyota Motor Company will temporarily stop selling and building eight models for the U.S. market, including the Camry and Corolla sedans, while it tries to resolve a problem with accelerator pedals."

Of course this could happen to anyone, but Toyota has been steadily decreasing in overall quality, in spite of the public apology given in Tokyo by its President more than a year ago.

Good words do not a good product make.

What a great time to be selling Hyundai!
 
Perhaps the Toyota President will commit "Hara Kiri (sp).

Also, remember that Toyota had bad "Sludge" problems about ten years ago, mostly on their V6 but also on some i4's. Tried to blame it on customers not changing their oil, even when customers had recepts from dealers showing that their oil was changed on time. After many law suits, Toyota relented, and paid for engine swaps. Toyota also made their oil return holes larger in their V6 engines to prevent the sludge. (Chrysler had the same problem with their 2.7 V6 but to this day, still has not accepted blame. - google sludge and read all about it.)

After all the above, I have to admit that the most trouble free car I've owned in the modern era was a Camry LE. (the most problematic car I've owned in the modern era was an Accord EX [made on a monday or friday in Marysville Ohio]).
 
my wife has a fully loaded Seinna Limited and I have to say for 40k plus we are a little dissappointed. At 38k the AC clutch went out and one of the back seat motors went out, the Nav is HORRIBLE worst I've ever seen, and the V6 engine though efficient for a van it is loud! We would be hard pressed to buy another Toyota
 
Have been a Toyota fan for years, until we bought a 2005 Sienna. First the front door hinge welds broke at 40k. I had to write to corporate to get them to fix it. They initially tried to say it was normal wear and tear. Then the A/C compressor went at 50k. The drive belt has always squealed when you start it, have been through many belts. Sadly, this is a made in USA Toyota. I have a highly modified 2003 4 runner that I drag over rock and miles of rough terrain and I have not had one thing go wrong with it. This model is built in Japan.
 
This is such a huge mess for Toyota. Personally, I hope Hyundai takes a hubristic look at itself and doesn't make similar mistakes, since its made it well known that its benchmarked Toyota and wants to grow rapidly.
 
From today's New York Times:

"Toyota Motor Company will temporarily stop selling and building eight models for the U.S. market, including the Camry and Corolla sedans, while it tries to resolve a problem with accelerator pedals."

Of course this could happen to anyone, but Toyota has been steadily decreasing in overall quality, in spite of the public apology given in Tokyo by its President more than a year ago.

Good words do not a good product make.

What a great time to be selling Hyundai!

AND, how many of you are REALLY happy that you didn't buy that Lexus? :eek:
 
as a toyota guy for MANY years...I have had this problem...in fact since 1987

My 1987 P/U (before it was called a Tacoma)
Our 1987 Camry
Our 1991 Camry
Our 1997 Camry
My 2000 Tundra
My 2002 4Runner
Our 1997 Avalon
Our 2004 Camry
My 2005 Camry
and now, my dads 2009 Camry.

The floor mat interferes with the accelerator pedal if not securly attached to the holding fixture.

We always made sure that before we leave the car wash that the drivers mat was securely fastened before we drove off.

I see people are beginning to question the quality of Toyota overall...but out of all these vehicles only minor things had to be fixed.

2 water pumps (under warranty)
dry rotted rear speaker covers $20 for the set and 10 min. of labor.

We still own a few of them and they are well over 200K miles.

In my opinion, Toyota/Lexus has got it right but this is simply a little bump in the road.

Hyundai's bump (as of right now) is the suspension issue that supposedly has been corrected.

Personally, Toyota will make it out of this just fine. :)
 
I think Toyota will be fine too. How many companies publicly announce there's something wrong with their product and stop sales without a class action lawsuit? Even with the lawsuit, companies don't admit guilt. Once the problem is fixed, it'll be back to business as usual.

Toyota's aren't too engaging to drive IMO but their TCO per mile of car ownership is the selling point.
 
LOL Fallen? Every manufacturer hits a hurdle or two, some more than others... Ford - Firestone. GM - engine fires, electrical fires, doors falling off. As for Hyundai - have we forgotten the late 80's and all of the 90's? :)

Definitely an embarrassing situation for them, no doubt. I think they've handled it appropriately and have done more than most manufacturers would, albeit very slowly.
 
LOL Fallen? Every manufacturer hits a hurdle or two, some more than others... Ford - Firestone. GM - engine fires, electrical fires, doors falling off. As for Hyundai - have we forgotten the late 80's and all of the 90's? :)

Definitely an embarrassing situation for them, no doubt. I think they've handled it appropriately and have done more than most manufacturers would, albeit very slowly.

I agree. The bad side of this is that it could cost some americas some good jobs since it only seems to effect there american made cars.
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I just saw that two European companies are recalling cars that were made in "partnership" with Toyota, that use the same gas pedal that is made in Indiana.

Both the Citroen C1 and the Peugeot 106 are being recalled. (The C1 and the 106 are both thier cheapest cars). (Still would LOVE to own a Peugeot 607 - BEAUTIFUL)
 
Also Ford having issues over seas:

Faulty gas pedal recall for Ford vans in China (e)

Ford has halted production of some full-sized commercial vehicles in
China because they contain gas pedals built by the same company behind
the accelerators in Toyota's recent recall. Ford spokesman Said Deep
said Thursday the diesel version of its Transit Classic, built by a
Chinese joint venture, contains accelerators built by CTS, based in
Elkhart, IN. Production began in December and only about 1,600 vehicles
have been produced, he said. In a statement, Ford partner Jiangling
Motors said there have been no reported problems with the Transit
Classic but it is conducting a review of pedal assembly to determine the
next step. The diesel Transit Classic is the only Ford vehicle that
contains gas pedal parts made by CTS, Deep said. Accelerators made by
CTS are at the centre of a massive recall and production halt by Toyota,
over fears that the gas pedals may get stuck and cause unintended
acceleration. CTS makes gas pedal systems for various automakers. Toyota
and Ford are the only ones to announce production stoppages. Jiangling
has made a version of the Ford Transit commercial van since the late
1990s in Nanchang southeast China. The venture began using the CTS part
in December for the vans sold only in China. The pedals in the Ford vans
are not the same as those built for Toyota, CTS CEO Vinod Khilnani said
on a conference call. He said Toyota pedals were made to automaker
specifications and CTS does not believe it has liability. "There has
been no report of any issue with the Transit," Jiangling Motors said in
a statement.
(Toronto Star 100129)
 
Toyota finds a fix (e)

CTS, the parts supplier at the centre of the storm over Toyota Motor's
massive recall, says new gas pedals that won't stick are already on its
production lines. Vinod Khilnani, chairman and CEO of CTS, says his
company was working with Toyota to add new production lines and build
the new pedals as quickly as it can at three of its factories. The
faulty part was made at a CTS plant in Mississauga. CTS is also working
with Toyota on a quicker "field fix" to modify existing cars with the
faulty pedals. Repeatedly stressing that the pedals were made according
to Toyota's specifications, Khilnani said he doubted his company would
face legal liability or suffer major financial losses from the gas pedal
fallout. Not only did Toyota expand its pedal recall into Europe and
China, but Ford halted production of a commercial vehicle it builds as
part of a joint venture in China because it uses CTS gas pedals. (The
vehicle in question is not sold in Canada.) Asked about Ford, Khilnani
said the problem is strictly limited to Toyota. One issue the company
clearly wanted to stress yesterday was what Khilnani sees as the mixing
up in the media of two separate issues facing Toyota. The first, a
floor-mat recall, now involves more than five million vehicles. The
second, which arose last week and relates to 2.3 million vehicles in
North America, is due to a mechanical defect in the pedal produced by
CTS that causes it, in certain rare instances, to stick when exposed to
condensation. Khilnani said that, to his knowledge, there have been
fewer than 12 reported incidents involving the faulty pedal, and no
fatalities. Toyota, however, faces at least five lawsuits for deaths or
injuries allegedly related to sudden acceleration in its vehicles since
2002, including those pertaining to the floor-mat recall in November.
Toyota, for its part, has taken responsibility for the design flaws of
the CTS pedal, and said it has confidence in the parts supplier. David
Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, said he met with
Toyota officials last week and was told that they will also put an
override into the vehicle's computers whereby if both the gas pedal and
the brake are pushed at the same time, the engine will shut off
immediately. Toyota has two suppliers of gas pedals on affected
vehicles. No issue has been identified with the other supplier, Denso.
No timeline has been set for when CTS and Denso will be able to produce
enough pedals to begin fixing the recalled vehicles.

The storm battering Toyota is providing a rare opportunity for its
rivals to halt the relentless gains in market share earned by decades of
intense focus on quality. The recalls strike at the heart of the
reputation Toyota developed since it first started selling cars in North
America more than five decades ago and rode to global sales leadership:
that the vehicles it sells have the highest quality and are the most
reliable. Now, the recall fiasco opens up opportunities for competitors
to win back consumers worried that Toyota's commitment to quality and
safety was compromised by a rapid expansion into global sales
leadership. Asian auto makers for many years have gained market share at
the expense of North American auto makers, which have long struggled
with inferior quality ratings. Even though their quality has improved,
the perception among drivers that Detroit doesn't match up with Asian
companies persists. Auto makers are moving to take advantage of Toyota's
halt in the sale of its top-selling vehicles in the US and Canada. Ford
joined General Motors in offering US$1,000 in rebates to owners of
Toyota and Honda vehicles. Toyota is facing deepening problems with
class-action lawsuits in the US that linked last week's accelerator
pedal recall to a larger recall of Toyota vehicles in November that was
based on floor mats causing pedals to jam and cars to crash. The suits
said the acceleration problems are caused by defects in the vehicles'
electronic throttle-control system. The US Congress is also planning to
examine the issue. Members of the House of Representatives said they
intend to hold a hearing on Feb. 25 to review the complaints of sudden
acceleration. Still, some industry experts say Detroit will have a hard
time winning over Toyota's customer base. Consumers intent on buying
Toyota vehicles are more likely to be also looking at models from Honda,
Nissan and Hyundai, said Chris Travell, VP of automotive for Maritz
Canada.

Amid the uproar, Toyota executives got an ironic reminder yesterday of
the heights their firm has fallen from when it was named Japan's best
international brand for 2009. That the auto maker won the award for the
same year it posted its worst financial showing demonstrates the
strength the Toyota name has in Japan. In Toyota City, the centre of the
car maker's global empire, there was striking optimism as recently as
the summer that Toyota would pull through the bad times and start hiring
again soon. Recently laid-off workers interviewed at the time spoke
about the prospects for the Toyota Prius, and expressed confidence in
the company's new president, Akio Toyoda. Economists and government
officials in Tokyo were just as positive, saying Toyota was the engine
that would pull the rest of the economy out of the morass. Now, Toyota
is seen as an anchor that could drag the rest of the country - just
starting to emerge from a crippling recession - down with it. There are,
however, two significant positives working in Toyota's favour. The first
is that it is winning plaudits for moving so quickly to a total recall
after the seriousness of the pedal defect became apparent. The second is
the sheer size and importance of Toyota in Japan's economy. The same
officials who last year were looking to it to rescue the economy are now
faced with the possibility Toyota's woes could sideswipe Japan's still-
wobbly recovery. The entire country knows well its fortunes are tied to
how quickly Toyota can restore consumer confidence. Don't be surprised
if Japan's government and even domestic competitors rally around the
economy's ailing flagship.
(Globe and Mail, National Post 100129)
 
It wasn't the fact that Toyota had a problem with its vehicles, it's the fact that they tried to ignore it and the issue would go away. In the meantime people were getting killed because of their neglect. STUPID!!!! If you have a problem FIX it now or pay dearly for it later. Toyota will be paying for this blunder for years to come. I suspect that Hyundai are taking notes of WHAT NOT TO DO when you have a problem that needs to be fixed now!
 
People wonder why we're losing American jobs and things are being outsourced. It's because we can't even make a gas pedal without incident!

After observing Toyota for the past week, I agree it's disappointing to see the way they've carried this out. No doubt it could and should have been handled much, much better. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

As for:

Hyundai is smarter than people realize. They don't want Toyota's path at this point. They are paving their own.

Let's be honest here... credit where credit is due, Hyundai makes good cars and they've made unbelievable progress. Their forte, however, isn't exactly "paving their own path." Fair is fair.

Toyota has, for several years, been the benchmark that most manufacturers try to "live up to." Ford even had a campaign stating as such. It's a shame some very poor internal crisis management and a subpar American supplier has tarnished that image.

Good for their competitors though. :)
 
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I just saw that two European companies are recalling cars that were made in "partnership" with Toyota, that use the same gas pedal that is made in Indiana.

Both the Citroen C1 and the Peugeot 106 are being recalled. (The C1 and the 106 are both thier cheapest cars). (Still would LOVE to own a Peugeot 607 - BEAUTIFUL)

I now see on TV, another problem I've been aware of with the Prius Brakes.
It seems that the brakes on the Prius (also the Ford Fusion Hybrid) are not brakes that work with the brake pads and rotors, except in very hard braking. Not sure exactly how they work, other than they supply energy back to the car battery when braking or just slowing down. Only under very hard braking, do the brakes use the pads and rotors. OK, so whats the problem?????

When driving a Prius, and you are using your brakes, (not really brakes in the normal sense of the word), if you hit a pothole, or a curb, or something jarring, the regenerative (sp) brakes disconnect, and people think they no longer have brakes. (In fact, they still have regular brakes, but not power brakes, with the brake pedal dropping down more than an inch, but people don't know this). On TV, it was reported that at least one person was dead from an accident, when the Prius driver said that there were no brakes after she hit a pothole. Also reported that there have been more than 100 complaints to the FHSA about this. Only way to get your brakes back is to pull over, shut the system off, then back on (I.E. Reboot the system).
I've seen this reported in both the Prius BB's and the Fusion Hybrid BB's.
With the Prius, it is mostly with the Third Generation 2010 Prius, not so much with the first or second generation.
 
Of course this is a huge blow to Toyota, but regarding the overall product, I don't feel Hyundai is in the same league as Toyota, excluding the Genesis Sedan and much lesser degree, the Coupe. (I don't even feel the Coupe is in the same league/quality as the Sedan). Hyundai's main staple is gaining, but I definitely don't feel they are same level.
 
Of course this is a huge blow to Toyota, but regarding the overall product, I don't feel Hyundai is in the same league as Toyota, excluding the Genesis Sedan and much lesser degree, the Coupe. (I don't even feel the Coupe is in the same league/quality as the Sedan). Hyundai's main staple is gaining, but I definitely don't feel they are same level.

I'd argue that the Sonata is pretty close to the Camry, having narrowed the gap over the past two generations. And with the new 2011 model, if it lives up to the hype, it might be even closer.
 
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