Remote start w/key in vehicle gotcha

[Iggy]

Just a heads up for you all.

Let's say you'd like to remote start your car from the warmth of the house but you had left the keys in it unlocked. When you submit the start request from the app it says request unsuccessful due to doors being unlocked. No problem, request a door lock and then an engine start, life is good!

When you are ready to hop into the vehicle, you push the button on the door handle and nothing happens. UH OH! So you submit a door unlock request and the service is suddenly down. Unless you have a spare key, you are hosed.

My wife's Lexus on the other hand won't do a remote start with a key in the vehicle.

 

[Speeder]

Probably not. You can't send a second request with the App until the first request is acknowledged (about 50 seconds). The request to lock the doors will fail because the Fob is in the car.

 

[Iggy]

Probably not. You can't send a second request with the App until the first request is acknowledged (about 50 seconds). The request to lock the doors will fail because the Fob is in the car.

Speeder, you are correct in that requests can only be made after each previous request has been fully processed. Times will vary depending upon your location and signal strength and of course the service itself. Up around my neck of the woods, requests generally process within 20 seconds or so however I've seen as much as 2 minutes in the Boston area.

My above scenario is not hypothetical, I can actually remote start the vehicle with a key fob in it. I'm not sure if system is designed this way or I have something funky going on with my particular vehicle.

Perhaps someone out there could indulge me in an experiment. Leave the key in the vehicle, request a door lock through the app and if it is successful request a remote start. Just make sure you have a spare key fob laying around.

I'm curious if my vehicle is just a one-off that might need to be looked at.

 

[Shadymouse]

That happened to me as well. I remote started my vehicle when i was on my way to pick up my car from a city garage at park at during work. Luckily they always roll down the driver's window. My car would not unlock at all and the key fob was sitting in the cup holder.

Speeder, you are correct in that requests can only be made after each previous request has been fully processed. Times will vary depending upon your location and signal strength and of course the service itself. Up around my neck of the woods, requests generally process within 20 seconds or so however I've seen as much as 2 minutes in the Boston area.

My above scenario is not hypothetical, I can actually remote start the vehicle with a key fob in it. I'm not sure if system is designed this way or I have something funky going on with my particular vehicle.

Perhaps someone out there could indulge me in an experiment. Leave the key in the vehicle, request a door lock through the app and if it is successful request a remote start. Just make sure you have a spare key fob laying around.

I'm curious if my vehicle is just a one-off that might need to be looked at.

 

[Mcc]

That happened to me as well. I remote started my vehicle when i was on my way to pick up my car from a city garage at park at during work. Luckily they always roll down the driver's window. My car would not unlock at all and the key fob was sitting in the cup holder.

I’m not sure I fully understand with the key inside the car you were able to 1. Remote lock it and 2. Remote start it
but when you got to the car you could not unlock it with the fob Correct?

 

[Iggy]

I’m not sure I fully understand with the key inside the car you were able to 1. Remote lock it and 2. Remote start it
but when you got to the car you could not unlock it with the fob Correct?

With the key in the vehicle you CAN remote lock then subsequently remote start(car will not remote start unless the vehicle is locked).

With the key in the vehicle you can NOT unlock it by pushing the button on the outside door handle, so you are left with 3 options:

A: remote unlock
B: find another key FOB to unlock it
C: be lucky like Shadymouse and have one of the windows open

 

[Redwing]

With the key in the vehicle you CAN remote lock then subsequently remote start(car will not remote start unless the vehicle is locked).

With the key in the vehicle you can NOT unlock it by pushing the button on the outside door handle, so you are left with 3 options:

A: remote unlock
B: find another key FOB to unlock it
C: be lucky like Shadymouse and have one of the windows open

Hoping to not offend, but this does remind me of that joke:
Blond got locked out of convertible. Got worried that it would start raining and interior would get wet.

 

[Mcc]

With the key in the vehicle you CAN remote lock then subsequently remote start(car will not remote start unless the vehicle is locked).

With the key in the vehicle you can NOT unlock it by pushing the button on the outside door handle, so you are left with 3 options:

A: remote unlock
B: find another key FOB to unlock it
C: be lucky like Shadymouse and have one of the windows open

Seems reasonable. I can lock my keys in my car by using the other fob to lock it.

 

[Shadymouse]

With the key in the vehicle you CAN remote lock then subsequently remote start(car will not remote start unless the vehicle is locked).

With the key in the vehicle you can NOT unlock it by pushing the button on the outside door handle, so you are left with 3 options:

A: remote unlock
B: find another key FOB to unlock it
C: be lucky like Shadymouse and have one of the windows open

Exactly what Iggy said lol. Definitely was an eye opener to say the least

 

[tarhoosier]

I posted this last year in response to another issue. For those with reasons to need a key for emergency access to the car due to unreliable children, potential fob loss or theft, or any other issue here is how it can be done:

Remove blade key from fob
Conceal blade key on the outside car in a place accessible but not visible. In a magnetic holder would work well.
Remove battery from fob
Wrap battery in paper or other non-conductive material
Conceal fob and battery inside car.
Fob and battery need not be concealed in the same location

When emergency access is necessary recover blade key from exterior location and open door
Recover battery and fob
Marry fob and battery and access and control is now achieved.

I see this as especially useful for people who travel a great deal and are far from home, and thus the second fob, for much of their life. This way the fob travels with them.
I have not tested this-it is from a previous vehicle owner with keyless entry

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[Mcc]

deleted

 

[tarhoosier]

I welcome anyone to test this on our cars. It worked for someone who had a Prius and told me about it. It seems it would work for all keyless. The removal of battery is the important part. Without battery, fob is not detectable.
Our fob can be used to start car when fob battery seems dead by holding fob directly on the start button, per manual. Without battery I see no way. Same with detection by car without fob battery installed. BUT, a test would be essential before planning this.

 

[Iggy]

I welcome anyone to test this on our cars. It worked for someone who had a Prius and told me about it. It seems it would work for all keyless. The removal of battery is the important part. Without battery, fob is not detectable.
Our fob can be used to start car when fob battery seems dead by holding fob directly on the start button, per manual. Without battery I see no way. Same with detection by car without fob battery installed. BUT, a test would be essential before planning this.

Confirmed! I just tried it with battery out of the FOB. You have to hold the battery-less FOB extremely close to the start button and it will start.

 

[Speeder]

Confirmed! I just tried it with battery out of the FOB. You have to hold the battery-less FOB extremely close to the start button and it will start.

Sounds like it may have embedded RF Coding.

 

[tarhoosier]

Iggy:
Will the batteryless fob remain in the car without detection? Can the technique I outlined above function as hoped? Perhaps several feet from any receiver point?
My salesman showed me the technique you used to perform a start with dead fob battery as part of the intro to the car when I purchased it.

 

[tarhoosier]

I posted this last year in response to another issue. For those with reasons to need a key for emergency access to the car due to unreliable children, potential fob loss or theft, or any other issue here is how it can be done:

Remove blade key from fob
Conceal blade key on the outside car in a place accessible but not visible. In a magnetic holder would work well.
Remove battery from fob
Wrap battery in paper or other non-conductive material
Conceal fob and battery inside car.
Fob and battery need not be concealed in the same location

When emergency access is necessary recover blade key from exterior location and open door
Recover battery and fob
Marry fob and battery and access and control is now achieved.

I see this as especially useful for people who travel a great deal and are far from home, and thus the second fob, for much of their life. This way the fob travels with them.
I have not tested this-it is from a previous vehicle owner with keyless entry

I tested this technique this morning and it operates as I suggested in the post above. I removed the battery and placed the fob on the floor behind the front seats. I thought this as far as possible from any RF receiver point. I then used my other fob to operate the car as normal and there was no detection of the interior fob. Lock and unlock, walkup mirror unfold, lights and other auto functions as normal with the second fob in the car. I then left the inactive fob in the car and put my active fob in the house so well out of range of the car. There was no alert for fob in car when I exited and closed the door. Replacing battery in fob allowed it to work as usual and everything is operating as prior to the experiment for both fobs.

I was glad I did this experiment especially to learn that removing the battery (type 2032) means the circuit board is held in place by the pressure of back of fob and friction. First time I replaced back of fob there was no button response. Reopening and being certain that board sets carefully and exactly just in place, not a millimeter out of place, as there is room for it to wander a bit, allowed successful replacement of fob back.

A key point is to examine the circuit board when opened the first time to be certain of exact placement of board and battery. Hold the fob carefully and avoid any jiggling that may move the board. Of course do this over a stable flat surface where any mistake will be contained, no gravity disaster. If necessary reopen and reposition board until successful.

As usual with these measures reserved for emergencies, it will likely be needed on a rainy dark night. So if you intend to use this for your vehicle practice now, and not later.

 

[honorable flea]

Makes me wish that an auto start from phone could lock an unlocked car on start. Otherwise I lock, wait a while then submit a second request for start. Seems like a compound lock n’ start wouldn’t be too hard to implement.

 

[EdP]

Makes me wish that an auto start from phone could lock an unlocked car on start. Otherwise I lock, wait a while then submit a second request for start. Seems like a compound lock n’ start wouldn’t be too hard to implement.

Correct. I had two cars with aftermarket remotes and both did that. Sometimes I'm done at the checkout in the store and think I want to start the car. By the time I do two steps I'm already in the car. Even if I remember to lock it, the time lag is pretty long.

 

[honorable flea]

Correct. I had two cars with aftermarket remotes and both did that. Sometimes I'm done at the checkout in the store and think I want to start the car. By the time I do two steps I'm already in the car. Even if I remember to lock it, the time lag is pretty long.

Usually with me it’s actually three steps
1) try to start car, get failure since its unlocked
2) lock car, get success
3) start car

And yes I’ve walked across the parking lot to my car in that time too.