Resale / Depreciation?

[canucklehead604]

this is obviously an early thread for this topic, however i did notice a 'pre-owned' G70 at a Toronto Genesis dealer that was surprisingly discounted.

i'm sure it was a demo model or GXM driven, but it's a 2.0T Prestige trim with ~2600kms on it (~1600 miles). MSRP is $52k. it is listed for $43,888. very surprising, and potentially shocking depreciation for a months-old car with minimal miles in a relatively popular colour combo. maybe this was set well below market value to get more G70's on the road, or there is a blemish on the car's history already...

| Genesis Downtown

 

[TOGuy242]

this is obviously an early thread for this topic, however i did notice a 'pre-owned' G70 at a Toronto Genesis dealer that was surprisingly discounted.

i'm sure it was a demo model or GXM driven, but it's a 2.0T Prestige trim with ~2600kms on it (~1600 miles). MSRP is $52k. it is listed for $43,888. very surprising, and potentially shocking depreciation for a months-old car with minimal miles in a relatively popular colour combo. maybe this was set well below market value to get more G70's on the road, or there is a blemish on the car's history already...

| Genesis Downtown

I think I test drove that one ...

 

[EdP]

this is obviously an early thread for this topic, however i did notice a 'pre-owned' G70 at a Toronto Genesis dealer that was surprisingly discounted.

i'm sure it was a demo model or GXM driven, but it's a 2.0T Prestige trim with ~2600kms on it (~1600 miles). MSRP is $52k. it is listed for $43,888. very surprising, and potentially shocking depreciation for a months-old car with minimal miles in a relatively popular colour combo. maybe this was set well below market value to get more G70's on the road, or there is a blemish on the car's history already...

| Genesis Downtown

Can't speak for Canada, but in the US it is common for some manufacturers to offer "program cars" at similar discounts. Some come from golf tournaments where they were given to the pros to use. some were executive cars. The Buick dealer in town had a few every year and a great buy.

As for depreciation, drive it one mile the first day anyou lose almost as much as 10,000 for the year. It takes a big hit.

 

[GenesisYEG]

I can't speak for another agency but my Prestige has around that many kms and I would never sell it for that little. It would easily sell for more.

 

[Gen127]

I can't speak for another agency but my Prestige has around that many kms and I would never sell it for that little. It would easily sell for more.

Demo model vs a single-owner vehicle. I would expect a lower asking price for the demo, even relatively new and with reasonably-low miles

 

[Starflyer]

While this tread is about a Canadian G70, I just checked KBB.com for the G80 Sport since the G70 isn't being sold here yet. The list price on my G80 Sport was about 57.5. On kbb.com, for a used '18 G80, the so-called fair price is 49K while the range is 47.3K to 51.6K. So the discount is about 8.5K. Fact of life about cars, buy a used one and save a bundle. ANY serious mile makes it a used car. I believe a demo that wasn't titled would still be considered an new car except ANY dealer is not going to be able to pass of a 2000 mile demo as a new car (at least in the closing room.)

 

[canucklehead604]

While this tread is about a Canadian G70, I just checked KBB.com for the G80 Sport since the G70 isn't being sold here yet. The list price on my G80 Sport was about 57.5. On kbb.com, for a used '18 G80, the so-called fair price is 49K while the range is 47.3K to 51.6K. So the discount is about 8.5K. Fact of life about cars, buy a used one and save a bundle. ANY serious mile makes it a used car. I believe a demo that wasn't titled would still be considered an new car except ANY dealer is not going to be able to pass of a 2000 mile demo as a new car (at least in the closing room.)

^ no question. unless the car is an exceptionally high-demand vehicle, there will be a discount for a demo or 'used' vehicle. demo vehicles are typically titles as new vehicles in Canada, not yet registered to an owner. so they can sell as 'new demo' or something like that, but there would be a discount.

i suppose my point is that typical demo discounts around here are in the ~5-10% range at most. the ad i linked above is almost 16% reduced. other CAD Genesis dealers are showing the 5-8% reduction for demos, so this makes me wonder if there is not a further story with the subject vehicle.

one exception was from a few years ago when my wife went to buy a '15 Highlander. there was a wait list, no dealers had available stock, and many had even sold their demos. the one demo that popped up was at full price. i went in thinking i could work them down due to the 3000kms, but no dice. they said they had 4 other people coming that day and that they'd get full price. sure enough they did...just not from me. we ended up waiting 5+ months for her new HL to come in to our spec, and we got a fleet discount through a friend.

 

[Starflyer]

e.

one exception was from a few years ago when my wife went to buy a '15 Highlander. there was a wait list, no dealers had available stock, and many had even sold their demos. the one demo that popped up was at full price. i went in thinking i could work them down due to the 3000kms, but no dice. they said they had 4 other people coming that day and that they'd get full price. sure enough they did...just not from me. we ended up waiting 5+ months for her new HL to come in to our spec, and we got a fleet discount through a friend.

Same thing happened to me in '04 when the Prius debuted. No dealer stock and full MSRP or higher was the rule. I bought one (MSRP) and then traded it in for an '06 Prius. The dealer gave my my '04 price for my trade-in value on the '06!!! That's never going to happen again.

I might add that the bloom of the Prius wore off me soon after the '06 when the LEFT made it their road statement. I bought it for the tech only. And in my view, a pretty crappy ride for 50 MPG. Hated the belt drive (CVT).

 

[Toddasaurus]

...Hated the belt drive (CVT).

Hah. I hear you on that. I've yet to drive a CVT that didn't feel like a constantly slipping clutch. Though, supposedly Toyota has one that has a dedicated launch gear, which should alleviate that feeling....at least when starting from a standstill. But if you're doing that, you may as well get a non-CVT tranny.

It's funny. I remember when CVT's were first being introduced for mass production cars. Everyone was assuming they'd be amazing, as you could theoretically always stay at peak HP during WOT for amazing acceleration. It was a big letdown when said models actually were released. Lazy, weak, and boring we're the only attributes they presented to the car enthusiast.

 

[GenesisYEG]

Demo model vs a single-owner vehicle. I would expect a lower asking price for the demo, even relatively new and with reasonably-low miles

My car is a demo.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[BlancaGenny]

Depreciation hits all new cars at some point in their life unless you have the ultimate unicorn, the Chevy SS. I have my eye on a couple but I should've pulled the d*mn trigger sooner. They just keep rising and rising and rising.

My Old Man has a G8 GT and MSRP on his was $31k. Bought it new but was a demo and have 4-5k miles on it. Bought for $25.5k. The Genesis will keep its value for a little while until more people notice it. The Stinger has used examples for $27k, even better than the G8.

As I always say, time will tell.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

standard depreciation is 50%-60% within the first 36 months.. the reason for this is the standard lease is 36 months and lease residuals are estimated on a 50% depreciation over that 36 month term.


there are factors that help reduce the depreciation, not being fleet vehicles for one. There are also factors that hurt like being a niche vehicle with a small interest group.

Demo cars fall under different regulations and vary state by state in the US (not sure about Canada).

 

[Bald Eagle]

The main thing that will cause a higher than 'normal' depreciation is that no one, except this board, has ever heard of Genesis. And if someone has heard of the brand, the reputation of most dealers will probably cost another 5%.

 

[Starflyer]

The main thing that will cause a higher than 'normal' depreciation is that no one, except this board, has ever heard of Genesis. And if someone has heard of the brand, the reputation of most dealers will probably cost another 5%.

Well, I could care less as it's probably my last car purchase and the State of Washington is going have to pry my driver's license and my G80 keys out of my cold, dead hands.

That said, we do live in a SUV world where over 50% of the drivers out there would rather be in a SUV. Yeah, I know there is a promise of Genesis SUVs in the near future, but unless things change, the used car buyers will be mostly ogling the used SUVs on the lots. Over 50% of Porsches are SUV's. Ford anounced they won't be making anymore sedans in the US.

Hyundui has been treating the Genesis like a hobby project while almost every other car manufacturer (include Rolls Royce) has a SUV or 2 or 3 in their lineups TODAY.

STILL, I think my G80 Sport is the finest ride I've own in my lifetime and that includes about 35 vehicles.

 

[BlancaGenny]

Hyundui has been treating the Genesis like a hobby project while almost every other car manufacturer (include Rolls Royce) has a SUV or 2 or 3 in their lineups TODAY.

I feel like they should've went with an SUV first. The Tuscon is the best looking SUV for the money. They should have taken over with it first and then follow with the G80/G90/G70. I'm curious on their prices and what they will be.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

I feel like they should've went with an SUV first. The Tuscon is the best looking SUV for the money. They should have taken over with it first and then follow with the G80/G90/G70. I'm curious on their prices and what they will be.

The basic issue here is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy EPA regulations..

As an independent car manufacturer Genesis is going to have to meet specific EPA and MPG requirements to be allowed to sell in the USA if they are an independent Corporation. It is likely one of the reasons why they are still technically "Hyundai" from the perspective of the Government, because they can use the Hyundai lineup to maintain their averages and not have to charge a gas guzzler tax on the G80 and G90.

It's one of the reasons that the Chrysler/Fiat merger works so well, Chrysler can keep making big V8 cars and trucks with low MPG because the small Fiat cars offset their averages. Same reason GM keeps Buick around I suspect, so they have smaller cars with good MPG that offset the Cadillac SUVs and Trucks, so their Corporate Average Fuel Economy stays within regulations.

Corporate average fuel economy - Wikipedia

If Genesis had started with SUVs it would be much harder for them to separate from Hyundai in the future because they would have to level the average with small car and hybrid offerings, and as far as I have read this is not part of the game plan.

Lexus attempted the small car offset with the HS which was a Corolla based hybrid and it was a miserable failure lasting only 3 years (2009-2012) with total sales of 16,000. 3,000 of those being sold as 2012 left overs in 2013 and 2014. They tried again with the CT which did better overall, but still sold less than 100K vehicles over the course of 6 years, averaging 14,700 a year.

When you compare that to the IS which averages 50k units a year since 2002 or the ES that averages 71K units a year, both of which keep the Lexus Corp Avg MPG in check so they can produce their "F" line cars and the higher end LS/GS cars that have a hard time maintaining 20mpg, one can understand why Genesis does not want to pursue the small car or small hybrid line to their corporate average.

 

[EdP]

I feel like they should've went with an SUV first. The Tuscon is the best looking SUV for the money. They should have taken over with it first and then follow with the G80/G90/G70. I'm curious on their prices and what they will be.

IMO, that would have been a terrible mistake. Genesis is supposed to be a luxury brand. A tarted up Tuscon is far from the epitome of luxury. The brand would have been doomed from the start.

You also have to look at the time it takes to develop a brand and bring a car from drawing board to showroom. At the time a few years back they did not foresee how the SUV would be taking over in the US market. They were still developing cars for the Korea market where SUVs are less important. .

No matter how often and how loud the people here complain, nothing is going to speed up the long process. The engineering, prototyping, testing, tooling and approvals are a huge task and it will be ready when it is ready, and, we hope, done in a way befitting a luxury brand.

 

[BlancaGenny]

IMO, that would have been a terrible mistake. Genesis is supposed to be a luxury brand. A tarted up Tuscon is far from the epitome of luxury. The brand would have been doomed from the start.

You also have to look at the time it takes to develop a brand and bring a car from drawing board to showroom. At the time a few years back they did not foresee how the SUV would be taking over in the US market. They were still developing cars for the Korea market where SUVs are less important. .

No matter how often and how loud the people here complain, nothing is going to speed up the long process. The engineering, prototyping, testing, tooling and approvals are a huge task and it will be ready when it is ready, and, we hope, done in a way befitting a luxury brand.

What's the difference from a Hyundai Genesis going to a G80? Same thing. AND, what's even worse, is that they are charging more for the G80 than they did for the "Genesis". Yes, inflation and some more features may impact that but still, the G80 is just a "tarted up" 2nd Gen.

If they established themselves as a brand with a completely new vehicle, that would have been better for them. They played it safe and transitioned a current car to their lineup. I understand why they did it from a business perspective, but if someone were to call out Hyundai and compare the two cars next to one another, they would have their tale between their legs. By no means am I dinging Genesis for what they are doing. I think they'll be a great brand, as they are currently, but saving their a** at the cost of giving the people what they want is a question some will waiver on.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

What's the difference from a Hyundai Genesis going to a G80? Same thing. AND, what's even worse, is that they are charging more for the G80 than they did for the "Genesis". Yes, inflation and some more features may impact that but still, the G80 is just a "tarted up" 2nd Gen.

If they established themselves as a brand with a completely new vehicle, that would have been better for them. They played it safe and transitioned a current car to their lineup. I understand why they did it from a business perspective, but if someone were to call out Hyundai and compare the two cars next to one another, they would have their tale between their legs. By no means am I dinging Genesis for what they are doing. I think they'll be a great brand, as they are currently, but saving their a** at the cost of giving the people what they want is a question some will waiver on.

so you do know that "Genesis Motors" has been the High End brand in Korea since 2007? It was conceived in 2003 and brought to market in Korean in 2007, the fact is the "Genesis" and "Equus" cars we know here in the USA have always been the Genesis Motors brand in Korea since their inception, not tarted up Hyundai's.

 

[EdP]

What's the difference from a Hyundai Genesis going to a G80? Same thing. AND, what's even worse, is that they are charging more for the G80 than they did for the "Genesis". Yes, inflation and some more features may impact that but still, the G80 is just a "tarted up" 2nd Gen.

If they established themselves as a brand with a completely new vehicle, that would have been better for them. They played it safe and transitioned a current car to their lineup.

Huge difference. Yes, the G80 is a tarted up 2G. It is NOT a tarted up Elantra. It is a car that was designed to be a RWD luxury vehicle from the start. Tuscon is designed to be a modest FWD for a different market. To try telling people is is a luxury SUV because it has a nicer seat and badge would be silly.

The G80 should cost more than the 2G. I've owned both. Now I get included service, concierge, map updates and those free services have a price. I've also owned a few Sonatas. Nice cars, but they are not a Genesis. They were smart enough not to try and make the Sonata a G70 or even a G60.