Resale / Depreciation?

[NLJ]

I'll ask two questions.. How many people know the Optima and Sonata run on the same platform? I will put the majority of my dignity on the line and say there is a very small amount of owners that dig that deep to look and see if it's the same platform or not.

Next, considering sedans are not the largest seller anymore, how many people do you think know that the Sante Fe and Sorento ride on the same platform? Even less.

And maybe another if you want to dig even deeper. Did you know that the Audi Q7 and the Lamborghini Urus ride on the same platform? Shocker, I know. The Audi starting at a dismal $53,550 for the 2019 year. Urus? $200k.

The luxury market is doing the same thing as entry-level and mid-level manufacturers. I don't think you can sit there and state my "tarting" up comment would "doom" a new brand. Audi, BMW, Lamborghini, Kia, Hyundai; all the same thing. Our niche as ethusiasts is very small compared to the consumer market. We may know about the shared platforms/chassis's, but that'll only keep sales down in the double digits; not even close to dooming a new car brand.

There is some truth to it but shared platforms deter badge snobs. Look at Acura for example.

 

[BlancaGenny]

There is some truth to it but shared platforms deter badge snobs. Look at Acura for example.

I'd say Acura is in a crisis. There isn't much more to be had in an Acura than a Honda. The Honda quality is pretty much through the whole lineup so paying extra for the same thing (Acura) isn't hindsight. Not contradicting my last statement but the shared platforms are too identical in these two applications. Idk, maybe the sell better in Japan or other markets...

 

[mikemu30]

I'd say Acura is in a crisis. There isn't much more to be had in an Acura than a Honda. The Honda quality is pretty much through the whole lineup so paying extra for the same thing (Acura) isn't hindsight. Not contradicting my last statement but the shared platforms are too identical in these two applications. Idk, maybe the sell better in Japan or other markets...

Honda quality no so hot these days - read about the CRV and oil dilution in their 1.5l turbo. They have monster issue son their hands. Also no heat in cold climates. All over the net. I've been reading HONDA now stands for Had One Never Did Again.

 

[wtgw888]

I'd say Acura is in a crisis. There isn't much more to be had in an Acura than a Honda. The Honda quality is pretty much through the whole lineup so paying extra for the same thing (Acura) isn't hindsight. Not contradicting my last statement but the shared platforms are too identical in these two applications. Idk, maybe the sell better in Japan or other markets...

Agreed. The Honda Accord is BETTER than the TLX. The Civic is better than the ILX and they finally reduced the ILX price to be roughly the same. There are only a few tiny features available on the volume Acura that made them special. Their crossover RLX is where they focused their energy and it shows in sales, aside from the market shift to crossovers.

For Acura, it's not badge snobbery, it's that they make outdated cars vs. their Hondas. Lexus is weird though. The Lexus ES rides on a FWD Toyota platform but that hasn't stopped people from buying it. For this year, it's still outdated while the Camry gets the better V6.

 

[mikemu30]

Agreed. The Honda Accord is BETTER than the TLX. The Civic is better than the ILX and they finally reduced the ILX price to be roughly the same. There are only a few tiny features available on the volume Acura that made them special. Their crossover RLX is where they focused their energy and it shows in sales, aside from the market shift to crossovers.

For Acura, it's not badge snobbery, it's that they make outdated cars vs. their Hondas. Lexus is weird though. The Lexus ES rides on a FWD Toyota platform but that hasn't stopped people from buying it. For this year, it's still outdated while the Camry gets the better V6.

The ES has been redesigned for 2019 and it is a sweet ride - FSport in particular.

 

[NLJ]

Honda quality no so hot these days - read about the CRV and oil dilution in their 1.5l turbo. They have monster issue son their hands. Also no heat in cold climates. All over the net. I've been reading HONDA now stands for Had One Never Did Again.

As far as I know, that engine is not the same one available in North America.

 

[mikemu30]

As far as I know, that engine is not the same one available in North America.

It is indeed. Just snoop in a CRV forum. Widespread here in the US 2017 MY and newer.

 

[Spanky61]

Honda quality no so hot these days - read about the CRV and oil dilution in their 1.5l turbo. They have monster issue son their hands. Also no heat in cold climates. All over the net. I've been reading HONDA now stands for Had One Never Did Again.

Wouldn't touch a Honda with a ten foot pole. My brother-in-law worked for Honda of Marysville, OH as a production supervisor. They're cheaply built, over priced, even at the dealerships and they will hardly deal. Ask them for the invoice price and they'll have a fit. Their CVT is lack luster at best.

As far a resale price for the Genesis brand; welcome to the wonderful world of depreciation. It goes with the brand name.

 

[ikonn]

I'll ask two questions.. How many people know the Optima and Sonata run on the same platform? I will put the majority of my dignity on the line and say there is a very small amount of owners that dig that deep to look and see if it's the same platform or not.

Next, considering sedans are not the largest seller anymore, how many people do you think know that the Sante Fe and Sorento ride on the same platform? Even less.

And maybe another if you want to dig even deeper. Did you know that the Audi Q7 and the Lamborghini Urus ride on the same platform? Shocker, I know. The Audi starting at a dismal $53,550 for the 2019 year. Urus? $200k.

The luxury market is doing the same thing as entry-level and mid-level manufacturers. I don't think you can sit there and state my "tarting" up comment would "doom" a new brand. Audi, BMW, Lamborghini, Kia, Hyundai; all the same thing. Our niche as ethusiasts is very small compared to the consumer market. We may know about the shared platforms/chassis's, but that'll only keep sales down in the double digits; not even close to dooming a new car brand.

Gosh, where do I even start? First let me make sure I’m on topic: a good car depreciates less than a bad car.

Now that I’m compliant, let’s get to the good stuff.

It’s impossible to go deep into all the variables, so I’ll keep it simple. Here are ikonn’s Five Fundamentals for Business Success:

1. Heritage - the more recognized heritage and brand equity you have, the better. Rolls, Bentley, Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamb, Porsche and even Maserati can rely on this. FCA is taking a gamble on this with Alfa. BMW, MB, and Audi can. Genesis, not so much.

2. Performance - if your new product performs better and/or has better features than the competition, you’re on your way! Tick that box G70! Tick that box Alfa Quadrifoglio! Tick that box Tesla! Acura TLX, not so much.

3. Price - undercut your competition. Tick that box G70! Maserati Ghibli, not so much.

4. Quality - last longer and have fewer defects. This is why JD Powers even has a business. Tick that box Lexus! Tick that box Hyundai! Tick that box Porsche! Sorry Alfa. Sorry Lada.

5. Lower cost of production - kind of obvious but of course if your product costs less to make, you might have a competitive advantage. Couple this with your lower price point and go for the volume! This is why there’s consolidation and platform sharing in the auto industry. As you said, every manufacturer is trying to do this. Tick this box VAG! Tick that box Hyundai! GM and FCA are trying hard but I smell trouble.

6. Lower operating overheads - Ok, I said 5 fundamentals so consider this a bonus for that extra mark in your MBA course. If you can run a more efficient operation, the dough will roll in. Good on ya Tesla! Atta boy Amazon!

The more you can differentiate yourself across those 5 (I mean 6) fundamentals, the greater the likelihood of your success. Ranking high across all 5 all but guarantees success. Being high in 2 of them and average in 3, could be good. Being bad in 1 or 2 of them spells trouble. In the luxury business, being bad or average in #1 and #2 spells doom.

Can I say that a tarted up Hyundai would doom Genesis? Yup, I can. Sitting down or standing up. Genesis would have a Fail for both #1 and #2. And the fact that Genesis decided to go the non tart route only adds support to my view.

There you go. You should be able to get at least a B in that business course now!

 

[Beefer]

Fme was that a long post...but a brilliant one at that.

G70 holds all but heritage. Good enough for me.

I’ve owned my car for a week...best vehicle purchase of my life. Seriously. F’ng brilliant ride...hands down. I’ve owned Audi, BMW, MB, Saab and Infinity.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Acpantera]

I'm generally a left over car consumer, my wife and I have purchased nearly a dozen new, left over vehicles. We usually get between 20% to 30% off the MSRP.
I purchased my 2018 G80 Sport in September as a left over demo, had 1600 miles on it and I got 19% off.....it was their last one in stock because they are not going to be a "Genesis only" dealer.
Just before that' I tried to purchase a G80 sport with the same MSRP with 400 miles on it from another dealer bailing out of Genesis, the numbers didn't amount to a 4% discount, I gave them an offer of 25% off, but they didn't bite.....they politely said they'll sell to someone else......that car is gone from their lot, no idea what they got for it.
I think if Genesis builds a good dealer network that has a good reputation for value and "kiss the owners butt" attitude, the cars will hold a excellent resale/trade value.

 

[Bald Eagle]

ikonn,
I wouldn't quite say your post equals an MBA thesis, but - - -
And linking Alfa & Lada - - - Priceless.

 

[canucklehead604]

I'm generally a left over car consumer, my wife and I have purchased nearly a dozen new, left over vehicles. We usually get between 20% to 30% off the MSRP.
I purchased my 2018 G80 Sport in September as a left over demo, had 1600 miles on it and I got 19% off.....it was their last one in stock because they are not going to be a "Genesis only" dealer.
Just before that' I tried to purchase a G80 sport with the same MSRP with 400 miles on it from another dealer bailing out of Genesis, the numbers didn't amount to a 4% discount, I gave them an offer of 25% off, but they didn't bite.....they politely said they'll sell to someone else......that car is gone from their lot, no idea what they got for it.
I think if Genesis builds a good dealer network that has a good reputation for value and "kiss the owners butt" attitude, the cars will hold a excellent resale/trade value.

^ you'd love the deals on '15-'16 TDI's being sold now. Audi/VW are finally allowed to start selling the surplus cars that had to be put on ice after diesel-gate. now that the fix has been done and restitution has been paid out, they can resume sales of these ~3 year old 'new' units.

 

[Acpantera]

^ you'd love the deals on '15-'16 TDI's being sold now. Audi/VW are finally allowed to start selling the surplus cars that had to be put on ice after diesel-gate. now that the fix has been done and restitution has been paid out, they can resume sales of these ~3 year old 'new' units.

Holy Moly, I bet some good buys are to be had!

 

[BlancaGenny]

Can I say that a tarted up Hyundai would doom Genesis? Yup, I can. Sitting down or standing up. Genesis would have a Fail for both #1 and #2. And the fact that Genesis decided to go the non tart route only adds support to my view.

Very thorough, props for that. But, you shot yourself in the foot on this one:

"Can I say that a tarted up Hyundai would doom Genesis? Yup, I can".

Do I need to point out what car started Genesis? Their first car in America? You got it; the G80. But let's go back to 2014 when Hyundai started building the 2nd Gen Genesis. My "Hyundai" Genesis was the first car that "Genesis" sold.

Now that we have cleared up any sort of confusion or possible perception that could arise, the Genesis G80 is a tarted up Hyundai Genesis. Heck, they really didn't change anything. A couple badges, a couple other standard features, really just a spruced up Genesis. AND, they are still standing and selling.

Is Genesis doomed that they used a "Hyundai" car for their first appearance? No they are not. They are here to stay and even more so once their SUV rolls into showroom floors.

Summary: Doomed because of platform exchanging? 100% No. Why? Because that's how they started in the first place!! Look, you learned something new today! I'll take a solid A in this class thank you very much

 

[ikonn]

Very thorough, props for that. But, you shot yourself in the foot on this one:

"Can I say that a tarted up Hyundai would doom Genesis? Yup, I can".

Do I need to point out what car started Genesis? Their first car in America? You got it; the G80. But let's go back to 2014 when Hyundai started building the 2nd Gen Genesis. My "Hyundai" Genesis was the first car that "Genesis" sold.

Now that we have cleared up any sort of confusion or possible perception that could arise, the Genesis G80 is a tarted up Hyundai Genesis. Heck, they really didn't change anything. A couple badges, a couple other standard features, really just a spruced up Genesis. AND, they are still standing and selling.

Is Genesis doomed that they used a "Hyundai" car for their first appearance? No they are not. They are here to stay and even more so once their SUV rolls into showroom floors.

Summary: Doomed because of platform exchanging? 100% No. Why? Because that's how they started in the first place!! Look, you learned something new today! I'll take a solid A in this class thank you very much

Lol, you get a B+ for trying. But no A today, let me explain:
- your original suggestion was for Genesis to take the Tucson and add some luxury touches - this is what someone (and I agree) referred to as tarting up. You felt that this was a better strategy because it allowed Genesis to enter the hot SUV segment. I agree that entering the SUV segment before the smaller sport sedan one is not unreasonable. However doing it with an insufficiently luxurious and differentiated product would result in a fail because those near luxury and luxury buyers expect more to overcome a new brand’s lack of equity.
- Mr Incredible and EdP have already pointed out that the G80 and G90 products may have launched here under the Hyundai brand but the were conceived at the beginning as luxurious offerings not as tart ups (which is what lipstick on an entry level Tucson would be) so your point about how those cars started is flawed
- even with the luxury DNA, Genesis with just the G80 and G90 would fail - you just have to look at sales volumes vs E class, 5 series, A6 etc. Therefore Genesis needs to enter higher volume segments in order to succeed. Doing so with a me too tart up will never sufficiently move the volume needle vs the competition

See you next semester.

 

[BlancaGenny]

Lol, you get a B+ for trying. But no A today, let me explain:
- your original suggestion was for Genesis to take the Tucson and add some luxury touches - this is what someone (and I agree) referred to as tarting up.

See you next semester.

I like you ikonn, you’re almost as stubborn and persistent as I am LOL Like I have stated before, almost every car manufacturer tarts cars up. Let’s not run in circles trying to prove points we’ll never agree on.

Keep in mind Genesis will not flop. I am confident that when dealer networks make mainstream news, that will be “thé” pivotal moment for them. Honestly, I think they’ll have a platform that is used in Hyundai or Kia. That’s not a bad thing. These cars are not made cheaply anymore. The quality has already surpassed American vehicles (mostly).

The business of marketing a product and marketing it effectively is worth millions in the company. I don’t think for one second Genesis will be an Acura equivalent which is why they are taking the chance.

Thank you for being generous with the B+ but, I’ll keep my A. Trying and accomplishing are on different spectrums, as are our opinions.

 

[Stevendom1987]

Has anyone looked at leasing vs. buying the g70? I'm looking at the Advanced or Elite 2.0 package and just keep thinking that buying the car might put me in a tough spot when trying to sell it in 3 or 4 years because of depreciation of the brand here in the U.S. - I believe the money factor being offered is. .0007 with either a 55 or 45% residual value and the interest rate for 60 months if purchased is 1.9%

I just want to make the best decision I can. 10K miles doesn't seem like very much so I was hoping to get some input. I also assume leading to buy is probably the worst deal of all?

My thoughts are with how badly Genesis has done with brand awareness and the propensity for the US Market to continue to favor SUVs, the value of the g70 isn't going to hold well?

 

[danygenesis]

Has anyone looked at leasing vs. buying the g70? I'm looking at the Advanced or Elite 2.0 package and just keep thinking that buying the car might put me in a tough spot when trying to sell it in 3 or 4 years because of depreciation of the brand here in the U.S. - I believe the money factor being offered is. .0007 with either a 55 or 45% residual value and the interest rate for 60 months if purchased is 1.9%

I just want to make the best decision I can. 10K miles doesn't seem like very much so I was hoping to get some input. I also assume leading to buy is probably the worst deal of all?

My thoughts are with how badly Genesis has done with brand awareness and the propensity for the US Market to continue to favor SUVs, the value of the g70 isn't going to hold well?

Now you get $2500 lease cash plus $1000 conquest or owner rebate. Lease numbers are posted at Edmunds.
Check this thread too
Leases and residuals on a G70

 

[rroyce46]

I spent 31 years selling new & used high end Mercs & Porsches before retiring 7 years ago.
Ist year or 1 day old ( get the tires dirty) typical depreciation is about 30%, 2nd year 20% & after that about 10% a year leveling off @ about 7 years to virtually 0 or condition & mileage dependent. You pay a lot for new car smell.
Bought my 2016 Hyundai Genny Luxury 3.8 AWD @ 10900 Kilometers 18 months old in January this year for $31000 tax included retail from local Hyundai Dealer. Original Window Sticker $50460 MSRP new. Thats how I buy a car. Went in shopping for a new Loaded Elantra Sport & came home with lots more car for less than the Elantra.