Searched Lots - Advice on startup knocking noises

[Pontiac Man]

Guys...

Searched like mad, and used Google for all it was worth. Read almost every article out there. I have a 2009 3.8, and the morning start is beginning to concern me. I just converted to Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic, and it improved but did not go away.

Any truth to needing to run a Hyundai filter only?
Any truth to using the 5w20 synthetic for it to be better?
Anyone ever install a prime circulation system to pre-prime the oil filter canister before a startup?
Anyone know what the fix is for this problem after all these years?

Appreciate any feedback you can provide. I am a car guy, and this is going to annoy me to the point of ripping down this engine if I don't get some help...

TIA...

 

[Mark_888]

5W-30 should be better than 5W-20 for the problem you describe.

It is best to use only the Hyundai OEM filter (26320-3C250). Some of the after-market filters are identical to the OEM (also made in Korea), but if you got one that is not identical then you could definitely have trouble. The correct filter has hard black plastic end-caps with two internal green O-rings, one at each end (not talking about the O-rings that go on the filter cap wand).

The owner's manual says that the valves should be checked, and adjusted if necessary, after 60K miles, so that might be the problem. You would probably want a Hyundai dealer to do that.

I have a 2009 3.8 V6 and don't have that problem, but only have 56K miles on the engine.

 

[Pontiac Man]

Good information. I'll look into the valve adjustment. I'll first get the OEM filter and give that a go.

I really think I am going to pursue a prime pump and see if I can protect this engine due to design. I have about the same mileage as you do...

 

[Bill K]

In case it's an engine problem, you should be covered for 10 years, 100,000 miles.
I would ask the dealer about it (but put an "official" Hyundai oil filter on it first)

 

[shaune]

5W-30 should be better than 5W-20 for the problem you describe.

Hi, Mark,

Not to hijack this thread but no issues with me swapping my 5w20 semi-synthetic to 5w30 full synthetic in hopes of quieting my 4.6 tau a little? Also I'm in Canada and it is beginning of winter here now. Is it recommended 5w30 winter then back to 5w20 rest of year?

 

[landtuna]

Hi, Mark,

Not to hijack this thread but no issues with me swapping my 5w20 semi-synthetic to 5w30 full synthetic in hopes of quieting my 4.6 tau a little? Also I'm in Canada and it is beginning of winter here now. Is it recommended 5w30 winter then back to 5w20 rest of year?

I'm guessing you have those oil figures backwards. You'd want to use the thinner oil in winter (5W20) and thicker in summer (5W30).

 

[Mark_888]

I'm guessing you have those oil figures backwards. You'd want to use the thinner oil in winter (5W20) and thicker in summer (5W30).

The first number (5W) determines the viscosity when the oil (and engine) is cold, and that is the same for both oils. The second number (20 or 30) is the viscosity when the engine (and oil) is warmed up, and the ambient temperature does not come in to play that much unless conditions are very extreme, such as ambient temps above 110 F.

As I mentioned in another post, Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30 is an excellent choice for anyone concerned cold weather starting, and maximum engine protection.

 

[Pontiac Man]

Canada is very thankful for having a legislative control regulating 5yr 60,000m warranty, not 10 yr 100,000m. Unfortunately, this car broke the 5yr a couple years back.

I put in the authentic $24 CAD filter, and it made zero difference. These filters now are not the green seal filters anymore the dealer told me. While the box looks like the correct green seal filter, these have a felt pad on the top and bottom of the filter with holes smaller in diameter. The felt pad serves as the seal, so you simply press it up into the canister, and then seat it over the port at the bottom. It did nothing. In fact this morning, being -18C outside, the car also had a tick about 2200rpm in every gear, and it took a good 10 mins driving time to actually notice it had stopped. I will do a 5w20 oil change next time but I don't believe that is going to help one bit.

 

[shaune]

I'm guessing you have those oil figures backwards. You'd want to use the thinner oil in winter (5W20) and thicker in summer (5W30).

Yes. Thank you. I wanted to use the thicker 5w30 now only to see if it might quiet it down a little even though winter is pretty much here. I also have the original filter as oil was just changed a dealer a few weeks ago and was hoping that would quiet things but hasn't. My noise is present when engine is at operating temp.

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Pontiac Man,

I feel your pain. These are such nice cars to drive but really sucks when you have a potential costly engine issue on the horizon.

 

[homeofstone]

Yes. Thank you. I wanted to use the thicker 5w30 now only to see if it might quiet it down a little even though winter is pretty much here. I also have the original filter as oil was just changed a dealer a few weeks ago and was hoping that would quiet things but hasn't. My noise is present when engine is at operating temp.

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Pontiac Man,

I feel your pain. These are such nice cars to drive but really sucks when you have a potential costly engine issue on the horizon.

I have 195,000 miles on my 2011 4.6 and no noise and no oil usage. I have always used oem hyundai oil filter made by mahle which is what came in the car from the factory, its the one with white ends. I have only used 5w30 Valvoline Synpower oil. In answer to OP regarding oem filters, Yes aftermarket oil filters can cause severe problems.

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[Mark_888]

Canada is very thankful for having a legislative control regulating 5yr 60,000m warranty, not 10 yr 100,000m. Unfortunately, this car broke the 5yr a couple years back.

Hyundai Motor America offers an extended 100K mile - 120 month drivetrain warranty, but I believe that the USA is the only country where the extended warranty is offered. This was mostly because Hyundai got off to a disastrous start (in terms of quality) when they started importing cars to the USA in the late 1980's.

Are you saying that the lack of an extended drivetrain warranty in Canada has something to do with Canadian laws or regulations?

 

[Dawg]

This past weekend I recorded a 20 second video of my vehicle knocking (sounded like metal ticking) badly. Sounded like utter crap. After about a minute in half, it went away. How can I upload a video from my cell phone to this site? I would like an opinion on why this vehicle is starting to sound like a diesel on cold start-ups...never had a vehicle do this. I also recorded it for the dealer as I have 91K miles and I am really on the fence if I am going to bail on this vehicle before 100K. Need new tires too.

Thanks for help uploading this video. It will blow your mind!

edit: adding video [video]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzpYvdr0xYpPektJcG43MV91SUZFbHdpUjFOR3FESFRUclJz/view?usp=sharing[/video]

 

[homeofstone]

Have only oem oil filters been used? After market oi filters can cause problems such as engine noise in many newer cars that have canister filtering systems like the Hyundai Genesis, BMW, Mercedes, and Kia.

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Canada is very thankful for having a legislative control regulating 5yr 60,000m warranty, not 10 yr 100,000m. Unfortunately, this car broke the 5yr a couple years back.

I put in the authentic $24 CAD filter, and it made zero difference. These filters now are not the green seal filters anymore the dealer told me. While the box looks like the correct green seal filter, these have a felt pad on the top and bottom of the filter with holes smaller in diameter. The felt pad serves as the seal, so you simply press it up into the canister, and then seat it over the port at the bottom. It did nothing. In fact this morning, being -18C outside, the car also had a tick about 2200rpm in every gear, and it took a good 10 mins driving time to actually notice it had stopped. I will do a 5w20 oil change next time but I don't believe that is going to help one bit.

The 3.8 V6 (solid lifter engine) most likely needs a valve adjustment per the maintenance schedule. Solid lifters do need adjusting at times to quiet the engine.

 

[Dawg]

[video]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzpYvdr0xYpPektJcG43MV91SUZFbHdpUjFOR3FESFRUclJz/view?usp=sharing[/video]

See if this works. I think I added it in my post above. I know amateur hour, but listen to the tapping

 

[balfor]

[video]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzpYvdr0xYpPektJcG43MV91SUZFbHdpUjFOR3FESFRUclJz/view?usp=sharing[/video]

See if this works. I think I added it in my post above. I know amateur hour, but listen to the tapping

Hard to tell from the video as you have your hood closed. Could be one of the VVT actuators failing, timing chain guide wear/tensioner bad or faulty lifter (the V8 are hydraulic). If you are under warranty what did the dealer say? I would have them chase it down if you still have the powertrain warranty.

 

[Dawg]

Hard to tell from the video as you have your hood closed. Could be one of the VVT actuators failing, timing chain guide wear/tensioner bad or faulty lifter (the V8 are hydraulic). If you are under warranty what did the dealer say? I would have them chase it down if you still have the powertrain warranty.

Heading to dealer this Thursday morning to drop it off. It only does this when left overnight and temps get in the 20's so I am not sure if they will be able to replicate. Said they would like to keep it about 6 hours. Maybe I drop it off tomorrow evening, they give me loaner, and they can cold start it Thursday morning when it is in the 20's. Win/Win, right? Yes, I have HPP to 100K

 

[ronb]

I had the same valve noise after having my 4.6 90,000 full service. Went away after motor warmed up. Didn't make that noise prior to service. Many years ago, I had a different car serviced and they put a valve lifter cleaner in at the oil change. Got same problem. However, after a week or two, the Genesis motor is once again noise free. The other cars valve tick never did stop.

 

[ronb]

Dawg, Sounds like my engine did after Ed Voyles did a "BG engine performance restoration" at 90k miles on my 2010 4.6. they added BG EPR to oil system and BG MOA to new oil. Not sure what that stuff is, but, back in the 60's a dealer put a "hydraulic valve lifter cleaner" in my then 1960 V8 Pontiac and it sounded similar. I believe it to be a hydraulic lifter tick. I think some dirt gets loose and clogs a passage way. In the case of the Pontiac, it never stopped but didn't hurt anything. The Genesis noise started after the service but stopped a couple of weeks later. I think the "cleaner" broke some dirt loose and it finally got filtered out. The dealer may try to do a oil change and put the cleaner stuff in. Look for over $100.00 for both activities. The "max eng performance kit" is 83.00. oil change 32.19. Invoice says 5W30 motoroil was used. Filler cap says use 5W20. Here in Atlanta area I don't think it matters much. You can buy Hydraulic valve lifter cleaner at your local auto parts store for much much less. That may be all you need.

 

[Pontiac Man]

Thanks so much for the review. Mine has never sounded like that video thankfully. I would have had it ripped out by now with an LS6 going in if it did.

Mine is subtle during initial roar up for 2-3 seconds. It then sounds just like a dry engine that has finally been quenched with oil. On really cold day starts, it does make a little more of similar chattering in the first 10kms or so of driving, usually most heard about 2300rpm in each gear. I try to be very gentle on it until it is up to temperature and keep revs to a minimum.

I will use OEM only filters from now on. I will also try the lifter cleaner, it cannot hurt. I am very comfortable I could handle doing the lifter adjustment if needed in my shop at home, even though it sure looks like an exhaustive process.

Is there any hydraulic lifter replacements on the market? I ask only because the 3.8 has evolved now over a few years, and I am wondering if there is any upgrades that can make this a dismantle and replace task to simplify it and improve it's long term durability.

 

[Mark_888]

I will use OEM only filters from now on. .

On your 2009 V6, the filter is on top of engine compartment (as you know), so you should replace it immediately with an OEM 26320-3C250. You don't need to change the oil, nor should you do anything else at the same time until you see if this fixes the problem.

The OEM filter for your model has hard-plastic black end caps, so don't let the dealer tell you that you can use with one with soft white end caps that are used on some later model V6's and the V8.