service expense

[turnne]

For comparison
Here are the no charge maintenance programs...along with some pertinent details about length, what is covered and in some cases how long they have been offered

http://www.autobytel.com/auto-news/10-free-new-car-maintenance-programs-106370/

Warren

 

[edward301]

BMW was the first to offer the complete free maintenance, and Mark 888
is close to the correct reason. My good friend was the local BMW dealer
when that happened, a good part of the reason was to change the public's
perception of BMW's costly operating cost, the free maintenance help
off set this. My friend later sold his BMW dealership to the Penske Group.

I have a 2002 T Bird that always specified premium fuel, however I have
always put regular in it, I figured if it never knocked then regular was
ok. I have never put premium in any of my Equus's either. You get 8 more
horse power with premium, that is what they say.

I think all auto manufactures offer some type of free maintenance, you have
to follow your competition.

I looked at photos of the 2017 Equus (G900), looks good but I an not
wild about the front end, looks just like the 2015 Genesis.

My brother just recently traded in his 2012 Genesis for a 2015 Genesis, and
it has many similar features of the Equus, such as heads up display.

 

[Mark_888]

really?

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2014/05/usa-best-selling-luxury-vehicles-april-2014-sales-figures.html

where is the E class as compared to the 5 series?


Warren

I don't mean in terms of sales volume. I mean that not many of the same buyers shop both the MB and BMW 5 series. MB sells quite well, but BMW's attract a much younger group of buyers.

 

[turnne]

I don't mean in terms of sales volume. I mean that not many of the same buyers shop both the MB and BMW 5 series. MB sells quite well, but BMW's attract a much younger group of buyers.

I would say that is false as well
If I were to speculate...I would say that the E class and 5 series were the two cars( and brands frankly) that are most compared to by prospective buyers

Those two brands were certainly on my cross shop list before I bought one or the other
While different cars in ultimate character...they both have that "german" feel that many buyers prefer
As does Audi who has been gaining sales volume leaps over bounds in the last five years and now in 4th place( from the last stats) I saw in sales volume of luxury cars in the United States


Interesting that you changed what you said in your statement...but anyway

do you have a data point link showing the variance between the ages of the E class and 5 series buyers?

Warren

 

[turnne]

BMW was the first to offer the complete free maintenance, and Mark 888
is close to the correct reason. My good friend was the local BMW dealer
when that happened, a good part of the reason was to change the public's
perception of BMW's costly operating cost, the free maintenance help
off set this. My friend later sold his BMW dealership to the Penske Group.

I have a 2002 T Bird that always specified premium fuel, however I have
always put regular in it, I figured if it never knocked then regular was
ok. I have never put premium in any of my Equus's either. You get 8 more
horse power with premium, that is what they say.

I think all auto manufactures offer some type of free maintenance, you have
to follow your competition.

I looked at photos of the 2017 Equus (G900), looks good but I an not
wild about the front end, looks just like the 2015 Genesis.

My brother just recently traded in his 2012 Genesis for a 2015 Genesis, and
it has many similar features of the Equus, such as heads up display.

The perception of any of the german cars was their high repair and maintenance costs
To a certain expect...especially in Mercedes benz that can be true
I had a 140 chassis S class that had 3-4 warranty repairs that were over $5,000 each in an 18 month period
Though Mercedes benz sells a lot of cars...number two in luxury sales in the United States...they dont have the same type of maintenance coverage

Lexus created a higher end full size car( with a V8) that was very reliable...though for the german car buyers it didnt drive very well
I shared that opinion in my test drives of the Lexus LS over the years
I have not driven the most recent iteration of the Lexus LS...though in interior finishes they have stepped it up quite a notch and appear to have cutting edge technology vs the "Me Too" features of the first couple of generations of the Lexus LS

All of the german luxury cars have "premium fuel only" written on the dash, in the fuel door cover and in the owner's manuals
So..one can do what they like in choosing octane and what risk they want to take
I would hate to have a warranty claim denied due to that for any engine issues

I have not seem the new Equus replacement.. but I will take a look
Hopefully they move the car upscale. if they make any significant moves with better finishes and some cutting edge technology( vs Me Too items)..there will probably be a price increase of at least $15K...or even $20K over the old body style

Heads up display is nice...the 2005 Cadillac STS I just sold had it and I miss it

Years ago when I got rid of the Mercedes I recall missing the self closing doors and truck
Though the Equus did give me back the power folding mirrors that I had in the Mercedes S class years ago

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

Interesting that you changed what you said in your statement...but anyway

I didn't change what I said. You simply misunderstood what I said and I clarified it for you. Just because two cars have similar sales volume (or even if one is higher than the other) does not mean that the same buyers typically shop both cars.

You have already lost the whole argument about why BMW started included free maintenance, as edward301 explained to you.

 

[turnne]

I didn't change what I said. You simply misunderstood what I said and I clarified it for you. Just because two cars have similar sales volume (or even if one is higher than the other) does not mean that the same buyers typically shop both cars.

You have already lost the whole argument about why BMW started included free maintenance, as edward301 explained to you.

Here is what you said

"The simple fact is that for 3 series and 5 series, MB has not been a serious competitor for BMW"

I dont know what makes one vehicle a "serious" competitor to another vehicle in the same class besides sales volume
Dont most "for profit" automobile companies want to sell more cars as the litmus test to success?

Help me understand that statement other than the fact that BMW sells a lot less 5 series than Mercedes sells E class cars?

You say MB has not been a serious competitor with the E class to the BMW 5 series

Please explain..in detail
what your criteria is for competitive success in the automobile world?...and why higher sales ( I assume from your statement) dont count?

In regard to "lost the whole argument"
His comments were ..in the legal term, "hearsay"..and like yours prove nothing
Again..I dont see where anyone had any affiliation with BMW to know their marketing strategy with any confirmation

You amaze me with all of your comments and how little facts they contain
I can think of many times I have posted verifiable data that proved your comments false
Let me know if you need a reminder of the many times I have done so

Perhaps Google might become your best friend.....


Warren

 

[Mark_888]

I dont know what makes one vehicle a "serious" competitor to another vehicle in the same class besides sales volume

I told you what it means. It means that most buyers of a BMW 3 or 5 series are not seriously considering a MB. The reverse is probably also true, in that most buyers of MB E class are not seriously considering a BMW (too stiff and sporty for them).

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

But the main point (all of the above about BMW vs MB is just noise) is that I was correct in stating the reason why BMW included free service for their cars for 3 years (or whatever). Younger buyers who prefer BMW are not used to paying high routine maintenance bills for cars, and that was becoming an impediment to BMW sales. I explained it, and edward301 explained it. You should just admit defeat and go on your on way and quit trying to change the subject.

 

[edward301]

Hate to say it, but a friend of mine has a E350, we were on a short trip
with them, and I ended up driving the E350 quite a bit, I was not impressed
with this car at all, my Equus is so much better.

Before my 1st Equus I had a S550 was a good car, but not a great car,
something was always broken on it, every time I took it to the dealer
they hit hard on costs, that is why I got rid of it forever.

I have never owned a BMW, and never will. When our kids were young
we bought a Ford Windstar mini van for the baby sitter to drive our kids
around, one day she pulled into a parking lot and hit a BMW while
parking. It did $1,300.00 to our van, and over $18,000.00 to the BMW,
it caved the whole side in on that BMW, the Ford only had some cuts
in the front bumper cover, the BMW,, it was unbelievable the amount of
damage to the BMW.

I am the type that hates to take my cars to the dealer to be fixed, ever,
and will not buy a car that has to go to the dealer, more than once or
twice in my ownership. My neighborhood oil change store does everything
I need.

Besides we never travel by car more than180 miles.

 

[turnne]

Hate to say it, but a friend of mine has a E350, we were on a short trip
with them, and I ended up driving the E350 quite a bit, I was not impressed
with this car at all, my Equus is so much better.

Before my 1st Equus I had a S550 was a good car, but not a great car,
something was always broken on it, every time I took it to the dealer
they hit hard on costs, that is why I got rid of it forever.

I have never owned a BMW, and never will. When our kids were young
we bought a Ford Windstar mini van for the baby sitter to drive our kids
around, one day she pulled into a parking lot and hit a BMW while
parking. It did $1,300.00 to our van, and over $18,000.00 to the BMW,
it caved the whole side in on that BMW, the Ford only had some cuts
in the front bumper cover, the BMW,, it was unbelievable the amount of
damage to the BMW.

I am the type that hates to take my cars to the dealer to be fixed, ever,
and will not buy a car that has to go to the dealer, more than once or
twice in my ownership. My neighborhood oil change store does everything
I need.

Besides we never travel by car more than180 miles.

As I said before
Mercedes Benz cars are expensive to maintain and to repair
I have owned three of them
two S classes and one E class
I am certain you miss several of the features that were in the S class

Mercedes benz is really a different "drive"...closer to a BMW/Audi than anything else

Some people prefer the german car handling and ride..as I do..and specifically the Mercedes benz nuance is my favorite
All of them..BMW/Audi/Mercedes have the same "family" of ride with nuances between the brands
they also have a very definitive family styling that separates them from other cars

Now...I have heard many say ( Lexus drivers) that the Germans are too stiff
The german car drivers ..including me...thought the Lexus LS was too soft and that its styling was too derivative and not original( in older iterations)

Personally I give some kudos to the most recent Lexus LS for the fact that it does not look like anything else
I have not driven the newest body style and cant comment on what the ride/drive is like

The Equus..I think we have to agree looks like a mixed bag of stolen styling from other luxury cars
Its ride is reminiscent of the last body of the LS460....cushy
The finishes have some Hyundai "parts bin" look to them
However..I cant complain about the car for the price
Though some buyers are looking for more than the lowest price

I hope that the new body style brings some originality in styling, upgrade in fit and finishes and some features that are more unique than the "Me-too" ones in the current car

Warren

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[edward301]

I really do not miss any of the Mercedes features, I do not use many
of the Equus features either. I do not drive much, and our city traffic
is terrible so how a car handles is moot. I drive the Equus 1 or 2 days
per week. When the weather is bad I drive my beast a Chevy 2500HD
truck with huge steel front and rear bumpers. I have already found out
how tuff the steel bumpers are when a Nissan Armada crossed over 5
lanes of traffic and clipped the front of my truck. He lost big time....

The only feature I use and like on my Equus is the heads up display, it
is great to see your speed without looking down at the dash. I was
getting gas the other day and again had someone comment on my car,
I have gotten many compliments of my various Equus cars over the
years. I have had my current Equus for 6 months, and just hit 2400
miles, had my truck for a year and have 3300 miles. I drive right at
6k miles per year, we drive very little on the highway, no more that
180 miles away from home, and we use my wife's Suburban for all
highway driving.

When I was getting rid of my S550, and before I bought my first Equus
I did test drive the Lexus LS460L, there was no excitement to that car
at all.

Vehicles just do not excite me much anymore, now airplanes do excite
me.

 

[turnne]

I really do not miss any of the Mercedes features, I do not use many
of the Equus features either. I do not drive much, and our city traffic
is terrible so how a car handles is moot. I drive the Equus 1 or 2 days
per week. When the weather is bad I drive my beast a Chevy 2500HD
truck with huge steel front and rear bumpers. I have already found out
how tuff the steel bumpers are when a Nissan Armada crossed over 5
lanes of traffic and clipped the front of my truck. He lost big time....

The only feature I use and like on my Equus is the heads up display, it
is great to see your speed without looking down at the dash. I was
getting gas the other day and again had someone comment on my car,
I have gotten many compliments of my various Equus cars over the
years. I have had my current Equus for 6 months, and just hit 2400
miles, had my truck for a year and have 3300 miles. I drive right at
6k miles per year, we drive very little on the highway, no more that
180 miles away from home, and we use my wife's Suburban for all
highway driving.

When I was getting rid of my S550, and before I bought my first Equus
I did test drive the Lexus LS460L, there was no excitement to that car
at all.

Vehicles just do not excite me much anymore, now airplanes do excite
me.

since you dont care about handling or features
the Mercedes S class was probably a lot more car than you needed...since those two attributes...as well as prestige are probably principal reasons that a persons buys an S class
The Lexus LS is the car that Hyundai "copied" for the Equus...albeit with not quite the fit and finish of the Lexus...though for $25K less money as well

Warren

 

[edward301]

The rarely used feature of the S550 and my Equus is the awesome
acceleration when you need it, in both cars strong and steady, such
as when getting on the highway.

Not my current Equus, but my last one the 2014 Equus, I got to
stretch its legs, when out on the highway one Sunday morning,
no one around so I opened it up, it climbed right on up to the mid
155 or so mph when the computer took over, the engine had more
to give, and climbed steady up to 155 with no fuss. At that speed
the car felt solid and controlled, truthfully the Equus felt more sure
than the S550 did, but the Equus is newer, so the S550 today may
feel just as good. The power and size is the only reason I have one.

The one big plus I give to the Equus is cost, and rarely does anything
break.

 

[turnne]

The rarely used feature of the S550 and my Equus is the awesome
acceleration when you need it, in both cars strong and steady, such
as when getting on the highway.

Not my current Equus, but my last one the 2014 Equus, I got to
stretch its legs, when out on the highway one Sunday morning,
no one around so I opened it up, it climbed right on up to the mid
155 or so mph when the computer took over, the engine had more
to give, and climbed steady up to 155 with no fuss. At that speed
the car felt solid and controlled, truthfully the Equus felt more sure
than the S550 did, but the Equus is newer, so the S550 today may
feel just as good. The power and size is the only reason I have one.

The one big plus I give to the Equus is cost, and rarely does anything
break.

the Equus is a very good value...that I agree with
It does not have the feature set , driving dynamics or fit and finish of a Mercedes S class

and quite frankly..I dont think anyone expects it to
The last Mercedes I owned was 90's era S class( 140 chasis)..it was literally like driving a bank vault down the street
The fit and finish of the car was unbelievable...as it should have been for almost the $100K sticker price it had 20 years ago
It was whole lot more car than the Equus...but not nearly the value for the $$

I dont think an S class buyer is looking for a good value....hence its really an apples and oranges scenario
And to be honest..if they took the speed limiter off a few of the S classes...the twin turbo V8's or the V12's...I am sure they would do well over 200mph
if that matters

Warren

 

[edward301]

With the speed limiter removed many cars would go much faster, I bet
the Equus would hit 170 plus, as mine had more to give when the
computer told the engine no more.

I do not know why, but Mercedes simply did not do that much for me,
my last one was a 2009, it was to fussy, and costly, the electronics
never worked correctly.

Now if you want to go fast, my brother just picked up a AC Cobra
replicar from Fort Worth, TX. It has the 550hp motor, he took me
out the other day in it, awesome is an understatement. 0 to 60 is
supposted to be 2.8 seconds, and I believe it, the skin on my face
was back by my ears, you could not lean forward during acceleration
to save your life. Very loud, fastest car I have ever been in, he took
me up to 170 mph before he quit, and the car had much more, I think
he told me the car would go over 200, I would say from what I saw it
would very easily go over 200. Crazy to go that fast, objects come at
you so fast, your brain can not compute that quick if something goes
wrong, but was fun to do it once, and walk away. His car is dark blue
metallic with black stripes.

 

[turnne]

With the speed limiter removed many cars would go much faster, I bet
the Equus would hit 170 plus, as mine had more to give when the
computer told the engine no more.

I do not know why, but Mercedes simply did not do that much for me,
my last one was a 2009, it was to fussy, and costly, the electronics
never worked correctly.

Now if you want to go fast, my brother just picked up a AC Cobra
replicar from Fort Worth, TX. It has the 550hp motor, he took me
out the other day in it, awesome is an understatement. 0 to 60 is
supposted to be 2.8 seconds, and I believe it, the skin on my face
was back by my ears, you could not lean forward during acceleration
to save your life. Very loud, fastest car I have ever been in, he took
me up to 170 mph before he quit, and the car had much more, I think
he told me the car would go over 200, I would say from what I saw it
would very easily go over 200. Crazy to go that fast, objects come at
you so fast, your brain can not compute that quick if something goes
wrong, but was fun to do it once, and walk away. His car is dark blue
metallic with black stripes.

but do they have the driving dynamics that would make you comfortable at that speed?
There is an S class that does 0-60 in less than 4 seconds and can carry at least 5 adults in ultra luxury comfort

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehic...class=S&bodystyle=SDN&waypoint=models-compare

Kind of crazy that a car like that is speed limited to 155mph..lol

can you imagine how much faster it would go..and in typical Mercedes fashion I am sure the car would feel rock solid at ultra high speeds like they drive on the autobahn

You are one of those rare individuals that actually prefers the cheaper product..and frankly since you didnt use a lot of the amenities that an S class has over the Equus it doesnt make sense for you to spend the extra money

I agree with the Mercedes catch phrase..." The Best or Nothing"...
Ofcourse...I have to add..if you can afford it

I understand the reason the Mercedes S class has 60% of the ultra luxury market in the United States

Warren

 

[edward301]

If I spent a lot of time in a car I would most likely care more, but I drive
little, and do not keep cars more than 2 years, also since I have several
cars and switch between them daily, no need to have one expensive
car. Also I can not stand taking a car back to the dealer, that is
my biggest beef. My Mercedes had to go to the dealer at least twice
a year, my Equus's never went to the dealer, the 2014 went once.

Expensive cars depreciate so much the first two year, it is insane.
I have a good friend that went from a Suburban to a SL550 a few years
back, I told him he would not enjoy the car, and he did not, after six
months he traded the SL in for another Suburban, he had been driving
Suburban's so long that is what he was used to. He took a $55k beating
on that SL in only six months.

Plus I fly most places, so very little highway driving, only to Ft Worth, and
Houston, and every week a small country place 39 miles from home.

Does the 2015 Equus have adaptive braking, yesterday my Equus braked
pretty hard because some idiot in front of me turned into a driveway, and
decided to stop mid way, I was steering around him, when the car hit
the brakes, and the red flashing car symbol flashed in the windshield, the
brakes let off right as I was steering around him, guess because distance
was improving.

 

[turnne]

If I spent a lot of time in a car I would most likely care more, but I drive
little, and do not keep cars more than 2 years, also since I have several
cars and switch between them daily, no need to have one expensive
car. Also I can not stand taking a car back to the dealer, that is
my biggest beef. My Mercedes had to go to the dealer at least twice
a year, my Equus's never went to the dealer, the 2014 went once.

Expensive cars depreciate so much the first two year, it is insane.
I have a good friend that went from a Suburban to a SL550 a few years
back, I told him he would not enjoy the car, and he did not, after six
months he traded the SL in for another Suburban, he had been driving
Suburban's so long that is what he was used to. He took a $55k beating
on that SL in only six months.

Plus I fly most places, so very little highway driving, only to Ft Worth, and
Houston, and every week a small country place 39 miles from home.

Does the 2015 Equus have adaptive braking, yesterday my Equus braked
pretty hard because some idiot in front of me turned into a driveway, and
decided to stop mid way, I was steering around him, when the car hit
the brakes, and the red flashing car symbol flashed in the windshield, the
brakes let off right as I was steering around him, guess because distance
was improving.

again

you dont use a lot of the features an S class has and so it make sense to save your money
Generally speaking expensive cars to depreciate faster..hence the reason a Sonata is worth more of its sticker price than an Equus is after two years

generally speaking though...resale value is not a Hyundai strong suit

Warren