slow 0-60 times

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Have you seen this article?

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-fastest-cars-under--50-000-222822830.html

Fastest cars for under 50K. The R Spec made the list.

 

[stuofsci02]

That all said, I can understand why they are taking the 4.6L away in 2013. With the new Tau 5.0 and a more powerful Lamda, there is no need for it. What I can't quite understand for 2013, like others have mentioned, is why anyone would buy a new loaded V6 vs. a new R-spec? If I recall correctly, the V6 was really getting up there in price after adding the premium/tech packages and the fuel economy was only marginally better (22 vs 18 combined and 25 vs 28 highway). I guess if you drive a hell of a lot, it might make sense to someone, but considering almost a 100HP difference and a better resale value, it would never make sense to me. If you are already spending $40k+ and that $2-3k and the 3 MPG is going to put you over the top, then you probably should have settled on the the Sonata...or a 2011 CPO like I did Just my 0.02

I think you have to look at a lot of things beyond the simple things you are considering:

For me I got the loaded V6 after test driving both. Here are the reasons why:

Gas Cost: For an average driver the V8 will use 114 gallons more gas per year. In the US this will cost you about $400 more per year. In Canada where I live it will cost $600. And what about when the gas prices go up.

Insurance: For me the V8 was $120 more per year.

Tires: Replacement Tires for the 19's vs. 18's will cost about $300 more every 3-4 years. So about $90 more per year.

Winter Tires: The V8 needs 18" winters where the V6 can use 17" due to brake size. A good set of winter in 18" low profile tire with rims is about $600 more than 17". My winters last me about 6 years. So about $100 per year. This will not affect those in warm climates.

Initial Cost: V8 was about $3000 + tax more in cost than V6 for me in Canada. Over 10 years over ownership is at least $300 per year.

So I predicted for myself that the cost of ownership of the loaded V8 vs. loaded V6 to be about $1,210 per year for the next 10 years if I keep the car that long.

With the V6 being as powerful and smooth as it is, it was not worth $1,210 per year for me to have the V8.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I guess I'm of a diferent mind set. Having been in a high HP V6, after driving it for a few years, I found it lacking. So when I went shopping for a new car, I was looking for something different. When I found the R Spec and drove it, I was hooked.

As for your total cost per year, I think it's a bit off. Tires, in either 18" or 19" are about the same. And they seem to last about the same weather in a V6 or a V8.

Winter tires do not come in to play for me.

As for gas milage, I think you are a bit off in that as well. Unless your babying the V6 while the V8 guys are leadfooting it.

Insurance is probably the bigger difference, only because of the R Spec designation. I think if you just had the non RSpec 5.0, it would be closer.

But the fun of driving the R Spec in a spirited manner, at least for me, is worth the extra cost.

 

[stuofsci02]

I guess I'm of a diferent mind set. Having been in a high HP V6, after driving it for a few years, I found it lacking. So when I went shopping for a new car, I was looking for something different. When I found the R Spec and drove it, I was hooked.

As for your total cost per year, I think it's a bit off. Tires, in either 18" or 19" are about the same. And they seem to last about the same weather in a V6 or a V8.

Winter tires do not come in to play for me.

As for gas milage, I think you are a bit off in that as well. Unless your babying the V6 while the V8 guys are leadfooting it.

Insurance is probably the bigger difference, only because of the R Spec designation. I think if you just had the non RSpec 5.0, it would be closer.

But the fun of driving the R Spec in a spirited manner, at least for me, is worth the extra cost.

Well, you can do you own analysis. I priced out tires and for a decent set of 19's it was $800-900 and 18's was $500-600.

Gas was based of the posted mileage for the car driving 15,000 miles per year.

Non-Rspec is not available in Canada.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Price difference between 18" and 19" Conti Extreme Contatc DW is only $164.00 for a set of 4 as per Tirerack.

 

[stuofsci02]

Price difference between 18" and 19" Conti Extreme Contatc DW is only $164.00 for a set of 4 as per Tirerack.

That's fine.. I can't get my tires from tirerack without massive shipping charges.

Lucky for you... Your cost of Rspec is slightly less.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

You guys don't have similar places up there?

I didn't know that the Non R Spec wasn't available up there. I do know that your gas prices are higher though.

Is not your insurance Govt controlled and basically the same for all? It was in B.C. when I was up there.

Still, I'm sure you enjoy the car as much as I enjoy mine. .

 

[stuofsci02]

You guys don't have similar places up there?

I didn't know that the Non R Spec wasn't available up there. I do know that your gas prices are higher though.

Is not your insurance Govt controlled and basically the same for all? It was in B.C. when I was up there.

Still, I'm sure you enjoy the car as much as I enjoy mine. .

Yes we have online tire places, but prices are not as good. Here the cost difference on those same tires you picked is $80 per tire..

Car insurance is by province. In Ontario where I live it is private. I think BC and Manitoba have provincial car insurance, but it is not the same for all. It is based on your age, sex and driving record.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Sometimes we seem to forget the extra import fees to our neighbors north of the border.

I know that there are major issues with trying to import one of our US made component/replica kit cars up north. Seems that there is all kinds of tarrifs and leagal mumbo jumbo just to get one in the country.

 

[stuofsci02]

Sometimes we seem to forget the extra import fees to our neighbors north of the border.

I know that there are major issues with trying to import one of our US made component/replica kit cars up north. Seems that there is all kinds of tarrifs and leagal mumbo jumbo just to get one in the country.

Yeah, with the kits it is because of different safety governing bodies. Most manufactures will get US approvals, but for the cost of getting Canadian approvals it is not worth it for most manufactures of kit cars (since they will sell probably 20 times few here).

It used to be 5 years ago that $1 CAD was worth $0.65 USD, so price gaps made sense. Now the dollars are at par, but pricing here has not come down to match US prices. It is slowly happening, but it is tough luck.. Someone is making a lot of money.

Here Rspec MSRP is $53,500 but in the US is about $48,500 if I remember.... Same car, $5000 more...

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[motleyV8]

I think you have to look at a lot of things beyond the simple things you are considering:

For me I got the loaded V6 after test driving both. Here are the reasons why:

Gas Cost: For an average driver the V8 will use 114 gallons more gas per year. In the US this will cost you about $400 more per year. In Canada where I live it will cost $600. And what about when the gas prices go up.

Insurance: For me the V8 was $120 more per year.

Tires: Replacement Tires for the 19's vs. 18's will cost about $300 more every 3-4 years. So about $90 more per year.

Winter Tires: The V8 needs 18" winters where the V6 can use 17" due to brake size. A good set of winter in 18" low profile tire with rims is about $600 more than 17". My winters last me about 6 years. So about $100 per year. This will not affect those in warm climates.

Initial Cost: V8 was about $3000 + tax more in cost than V6 for me in Canada. Over 10 years over ownership is at least $300 per year.

So I predicted for myself that the cost of ownership of the loaded V8 vs. loaded V6 to be about $1,210 per year for the next 10 years if I keep the car that long.

With the V6 being as powerful and smooth as it is, it was not worth $1,210 per year for me to have the V8.

I guess I'm of a diferent mind set. Having been in a high HP V6, after driving it for a few years, I found it lacking. So when I went shopping for a new car, I was looking for something different. When I found the R Spec and drove it, I was hooked.

As for your total cost per year, I think it's a bit off. Tires, in either 18" or 19" are about the same. And they seem to last about the same weather in a V6 or a V8.

Winter tires do not come in to play for me.

As for gas milage, I think you are a bit off in that as well. Unless your babying the V6 while the V8 guys are leadfooting it.

Insurance is probably the bigger difference, only because of the R Spec designation. I think if you just had the non RSpec 5.0, it would be closer.

But the fun of driving the R Spec in a spirited manner, at least for me, is worth the extra cost.

Price difference between 18" and 19" Conti Extreme Contatc DW is only $164.00 for a set of 4 as per Tirerack.

Well, you can do you own analysis. I priced out tires and for a decent set of 19's it was $800-900 and 18's was $500-600.

Gas was based of the posted mileage for the car driving 15,000 miles per year.

Non-Rspec is not available in Canada.

That's fine.. I can't get my tires from tirerack without massive shipping charges.

Lucky for you... Your cost of Rspec is slightly less.

You guys don't have similar places up there?

I didn't know that the Non R Spec wasn't available up there. I do know that your gas prices are higher though.

Is not your insurance Govt controlled and basically the same for all? It was in B.C. when I was up there.

Still, I'm sure you enjoy the car as much as I enjoy mine. .

Interesting points and discussion...living somewhere other than the USA where costs are higher wasn't considered in my comment. Considering all those items makes sense, especially if you are on a fairly tight budget. Wheels and tires wouldn't be a problem for me since prices are in the same ballpark for 18" and 19". The $10/month extra for insurance wouldn't be a deal stopper and I only drive 7500 miles a year, so fuel costs wouldn't hurt me much either. I also never keep a car 10 years, maybe 3-4 years, so resale value would come more into play for me. It really comes down to how strict of a budget you are on and how you want to spend your $. For me, my thinking would be that if I was going to drop over $40k on car, I would be much happier in the long run if I spent a couple more thousand and purchased the car I really wanted. I would be more likely to keep it longer, and once paid off the extra expenses won't matter as much. This would be one of those types of decisions for me and was why I found the pricing interesting when considering an R-spec vs a V6 w/ tech package. In many situations, but not all, it's like settling for the sirloin instead of getting the ribeye that is $5 more. I'm pretty good with managing my money for the most part, but I would still likely go with the ribeye unless it meant I couldn't eat the next day. These types of decisions do exist and both steaks (cars) are still tasty for sure!

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Interesting points there Motley. And I've been in that same situation where as others may not have.

When I decided to get a pontiac G8, I went shopping, wanting to get the GT V8. But the dealer wouldn't deal on the price for a '09 and the only '08 they had was white. The Boss, I mean Wife, said whatever you do, don't come home with a white car. So I got the base model V6 with a better price. But I soon regreted not getting the GT with more power. I'm a power junkie.

Fast forward a few years. I got rid of the G8 for mechanical reasons and was out shopping again for cars. When I found the R Spec, I decided then that I was not going to comprimise like I did last time. And so I started working on a few dealers to get the car I really wanted. And now I'm glad I did.

 

[stuofsci02]

Interesting points there Motley. And I've been in that same situation where as others may not have.

When I decided to get a pontiac G8, I went shopping, wanting to get the GT V8. But the dealer wouldn't deal on the price for a '09 and the only '08 they had was white. The Boss, I mean Wife, said whatever you do, don't come home with a white car. So I got the base model V6 with a better price. But I soon regreted not getting the GT with more power. I'm a power junkie.

Fast forward a few years. I got rid of the G8 for mechanical reasons and was out shopping again for cars. When I found the R Spec, I decided then that I was not going to comprimise like I did last time. And so I started working on a few dealers to get the car I really wanted. And now I'm glad I did.

Power and speed are nice. I can understand your point.

I think though that a V6 G8 vs. a V6 Genesis is quite a bit different. The V6 Genesis is much faster then a V6 G8, and as such is less of a compromise.

0-60 in high 5 second range is plenty fast for me. To be honest I have not pushed the V6 to its max.

It was not about budget for me, just value. I was getting everything I wanted and didn't feel it necessary to spend the extra. For others it would be worth it. To each their own. 10 years ago when I was in my 20's it would probably be different. Now with two kids my priorities are different.

 

[motleyV8]

Interesting points there Motley. And I've been in that same situation where as others may not have.

When I decided to get a pontiac G8, I went shopping, wanting to get the GT V8. But the dealer wouldn't deal on the price for a '09 and the only '08 they had was white. The Boss, I mean Wife, said whatever you do, don't come home with a white car. So I got the base model V6 with a better price. But I soon regreted not getting the GT with more power. I'm a power junkie.

Fast forward a few years. I got rid of the G8 for mechanical reasons and was out shopping again for cars. When I found the R Spec, I decided then that I was not going to comprimise like I did last time. And so I started working on a few dealers to get the car I really wanted. And now I'm glad I did.

Agee 100%. Been there, done that. If it is only a bit more work or a couple thousand more, then it is always worth your while to come home with something you really want. It sounds like our tastes are very similar as I too really liked the G8 when it came out. I would have definitely wanted the GT at least, if not the GXP. I remember liking the Trailblazer SS as well since it had the Corevette engine

Power and speed are nice. I can understand your point.

I think though that a V6 G8 vs. a V6 Genesis is quite a bit different. The V6 Genesis is much faster then a V6 G8, and as such is less of a compromise.

0-60 in high 5 second range is plenty fast for me. To be honest I have not pushed the V6 to its max.

It was not about budget for me, just value. I was getting everything I wanted and didn't feel it necessary to spend the extra. For others it would be worth it. To each their own. 10 years ago when I was in my 20's it would probably be different. Now with two kids my priorities are different.

Understood, you definitely helped to answer my question as to whom would buy it and your points are valid. For me, I am like Crusty Old Shellback. Even though I'm over 40 with kids, I am a still power junkie and I like my power delivery to be as smooth and effortless as possible. I love the smoothness and growl of my 4.6L as compared to the GDI V6 even though the 0-60 is likely very similar. The R Spec would have been impossible to resist for me for $2-3k more here in the States. We can also say the R Spec is a great value purchase for more performance minded folks. Others will want the luxury with the better fuel economy, so that is understandable. I think we have beat the horse dead now on this LOL.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I'm, an over 50 power junkie. still married with 2 kids.

I used to drive a 600 HP blown small block chevy truck to work every day. One day some guy asked me "WHY?" My answer, because I can.

I still have a bagger Harley with over 100 HP/100TQ at the rear wheels. I can blow away a lot of bikes with it. I can also hold my own in the twisties with the crotch rockets. Why, because I can.

So for me, it was pretty much a no brainer this time around to get the R Spec.

My next "toy". Build a 500 HP Factor Five Racing Cobra replica.

 

[stuofsci02]

I'm, an over 50 power junkie. still married with 2 kids.

I used to drive a 600 HP blown small block chevy truck to work every day. One day some guy asked me "WHY?" My answer, because I can.

I still have a bagger Harley with over 100 HP/100TQ at the rear wheels. I can blow away a lot of bikes with it. I can also hold my own in the twisties with the crotch rockets. Why, because I can.

So for me, it was pretty much a no brainer this time around to get the R Spec.

My next "toy". Build a 500 HP Factor Five Racing Cobra replica.

I can completely understand. Everyone has their toys. For me it is my stereo system. My speakers alone were over $20k and I have at least that much more in electronics.

I like cars, but obviously not as much as you!

 

[krazyfiend]

My speakers alone were over $20k and I have at least that much more in electronics.

Martin Logan's in your setup or?

Sorry to go OT.

 

[stuofsci02]

Martin Logan's in your setup or?

Sorry to go OT.

No, I have B&W 801D. Same setup used at Abbey Road recording studio..

Here is a shot

 

[ockevin]

Great looking home theatre...I am jealous

 

[EXBMWGUY]

No, I have B&W 801D. Same setup used at Abbey Road recording studio..

Here is a shot

Sigh . . wonderful stuff. Unfortunately, I'm over 60 and my hearing is damaged to the point that others would be appreciating it more than me.

So my next real toy is a new C7 - in red - the minute they're into the second model year!