So I did my own timing job, 100,087 miles...

[rtrofimovich]

Some background - 2012 Genesis 4.6. Started to develop a rattle/clacking sound ONLY on warm starts where after driving the car at operating temps, I would shut it off, and if I started it again anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour afterwards, it would rattle for a second or two after ignition (as the RPMs settled to idle). Research led me to the conclusion that a bad timing chain tensioner was the culprit. Being a bit lazy and also pretty busy, I let it slide to the back of my mind and ignored it for about 20,000 miles. One day, the startup rattle was more persistent, lasting until I got on the gas a bit (oil pressure builds up, voila). Later that day, the car shook violently on the start sequence and wouldn't start. I had it towed home and there began my journey of disappointment.

*All of this was done with the engine in the car and took about a month and a half - mostly waiting on parts because parts suppliers don't know how to count to 8*
Removed airbox, rad fan shroud, all serpentine belt components (AC pump is tough, need an offset wrench and gotta approach it from under and behind - Alternator requires dropping the bracket and pulling the alternator out the top), intake manifold, water pump, thermostat, all tubing, all wiring, valve covers, two upper timing covers, and finally the lower timing cover (requires a LOT of prying to break the RTV seal). Found that the left bank (right side when standing in front of the car looking at it) timing chain tensioner spring was seized and slid back and forth in the channel without any spring tension. Right bank timing chain tensioner was good, guides were good (absolutely no wear), no significant signs of wear anywhere on cams. Cool. So my dad, brother, and I got to setting the timing. Here is my first point of annoyance with Hyundai. The crankshaft timing mark is a small half moon cutout in the flex plate that sits between the end of the crank shaft and the crankshaft pulley.. Why Hyundai... Why... Next, apparently Hyundai thought it amusing to make the timing links on the timing chain the same color as oil... and also, all the other links just a slightly different shade of oil/metal... Why Hyundai... Why... They are very difficult to identify and make the whole process more tedious. Anyhow, we got the timing set. To install tensioners, you screw them into their respective banks (different threads make it impossible to mix the caps up), then you push the pivoting chain guide arm against the tensioner to fire it, and slowly let it out. Also replaced the oil pump chain tensioner because why not. Check all the timing marks again, then go for a couple test spins of the crank. We noticed some uneven resistance we thought was just spring pressure on the cams. But before we started to reassemble, we decided to do a compression test. Right bank all checked out, left bank had no compression anywhere... Turns out the clearance pistons Hyundai uses aren't REALLY clearance pistons. All 8 exhaust valves on the left bank had fought the pistons, and the pistons won. So we got to taking off the head (requires a Sunex 212MZB 12mm head bolt socket, $20 on Amazon - also requires insane patience as there is almost no clearance to remove the lower exhaust header nuts, requires an offset wrench). This is where I lost all faith in Hyundai as a manufacturer. When we got the head off and pulled the head gasket, we found metal shavings from machining stuck in a water channel in the block pressed against the edge of the gasket. Nice quality control Hyundai, nice... Knocked out all the bent exhaust valves from the head, installed new valves (took three weeks to get them all, first received only 7 of the 8 that I ordered), bedded them in, dropped the head back on the block, torqued that sucker down to the specs in the service manual, reset all the timing, checked compression, and was relieved to see everything pump up to normal. Assembly lube was applied all the friction areas of the head. Now, this car is not designed to service the timing system with the motor still in the car, because the reassembly process of the lower timing cover requires both the lower and upper oil pans to be off. This forced us to come up with some creative re-engineering (ask for details if you like) of the timing cover and the overhang of the head gasket to ensure good RTV seals. Everything was then reassembled per the service manual and fluids were added. Cranked the car over and it started up after about 15 seconds. A period of clatter followed for about 5 seconds, then it quieted down as oil flow built up into the heads. Slight lifter ticking was still heard for a bit but gradually went away. Idle is very stable and there are no weird shudders or hesitations. Got the car up to operating temps and everything seemed normal. Shut it down, waited 10 minutes, and started it up again only to hear the SAME RATTLE/CLACKING NOISE AS BEFORE... Currently researching the deepest parts of the internet for as much information as I can get on what can be causing warm start rattles that is not the timing chain tensioners... There's lots to this story I didn't include, feel free to ask if there are any questions.

But I've made up my mind... this is the first and LAST Hyundai I will own... and its a shame because I really did enjoy the Genesis while it was running well.

I attached a few photos of the process, including the failed tensioner and the metal shavings I found in the block.

TL;DR - Thought timing chain tensioner was causing rattle, timing chain tensioner killed my valves, fixed the whole left bank valve train and entire timing system only to have the car continue to rattle. Found reasons along the way to never buy another Hyundai.

 

[Shady_panda]

how hard did you drive the car? timing chain are really durable I was told...The only thing I hate about my genesis is the crappy infotainment kept crapping out.

you honestly probaly saved more if you just swap out with a used engine.

 

[rtrofimovich]

how hard did you drive the car? timing chain are really durable I was told...The only thing I hate about my genesis is the crappy infotainment kept crapping out.

you honestly probaly saved more if you just swap out with a used engine.

It was my daily driver, so some stop and go traffic, but mostly highway miles. I definitely didn't abuse it, just the occasional pedal push to feel all the ponies. The timing chains weren't the problem (and I highly doubt they are stretched). The tensioner is what failed. Guides and chains are fine. Yeah
I found an engine with 25,000 miles for $1600. Would probably be worth just swapping it for a known-good unit if anything.

 

[Shady_panda]

sorry man, bad luck but my Acura RSX-S engine crapped out twice regardless of what people say about Honda and Acura.

 

[MG8]

nothing new happens to all manufactures all the time, when you work in the car business things like this happen and its not shocking and it happens more often that you think . there will always be some lemons.

 

[scottdk]

I would recommend you do an engine oil analysis (too late now) so you know what the heck is going on with your engine at all time. I do an oil analysis every oil change, or 1 a year with around 4,000 to 5,000 miles on Mobile 1 Synthetic oil.

I've always had a noisy, ticky engine and have never been able to solve it, however the last engine oil analysis I had completed came out in the "Excellent" category for engine wear etc.

The last engine oil analysis I did on my wife's Optima exhibited signs of excessive metal and through up a red flag, shortly after the engine seized. A TSB covered a new engine and turbo for my wife's car, but I'd hate to be out of warranty and have an engine grenade itself in the Genesis.

 

[Shady_panda]

I would recommend you do an engine oil analysis (too late now) so you know what the heck is going on with your engine at all time. I do an oil analysis every oil change, or 1 a year with around 4,000 to 5,000 miles on Mobile 1 Synthetic oil.

I've always had a noisy, ticky engine and have never been able to solve it, however the last engine oil analysis I had completed came out in the "Excellent" category for engine wear etc.

The last engine oil analysis I did on my wife's Optima exhibited signs of excessive metal and through up a red flag, shortly after the engine seized. A TSB covered a new engine and turbo for my wife's car, but I'd hate to be out of warranty and have an engine grenade itself in the Genesis.

I post in the other forum, but I know exactly what you are talking about. I am not sure if switching to 10w-30 or switching to Amsoil, but that sound is completely gone. I think I have a lot more mileage than you and my engine is just immaculate, not one drop of oil, my mechanic was actually surprised that the engine is in such good condition. I just fixed that stupid DIS bug completely, by rebooting the whole unit via engineering mode. The only thing I'm worried about now is the transmission since I have never replaced the oil because I did not know any better, at least used market is about 700 bucks.

 

[carguy75]

Nice information. I have the 5.0 TAU engine and will look into just swapping my chain tensioner after 100k miles before it fails hopefully since it seem easy to change compared to the valves.

 

[Ducatislave]

I would venture to say that the clatter/rattle on startup you are hearing is being caused by the anti-drainback ball valve inside the oil filter housing(not the bypass valve in the cap). The spring weakens over time, especially if you live somewhere that actually experiences more than 3 seasons per year. The only way I have found to fix that is to replace the entire oil filter housing and use only the recommended oil weight. Using heavier oil seems to make the spring weaken sooner as well, I guess it compresses it further than it should. The actual design flaw however lies in the fact that the ball is sealing against a fiber reinforce plastic surface that gets brittle and starts flaking which allows the sealing surface to fail and lets oil drain back from the top of the engine. Also depending on the build date the ball could be steel or some type of plastic, I have seen both. The plastic ones seem to work better.

 

[Ducatislave]

I would venture to say that the clatter/rattle on startup you are hearing is being caused by the anti-drainback ball valve inside the oil filter housing. The spring weakens over time, especially if you live somewhere that actually experiences more than 3 seasons per year. The only way I have found to fix that is to replace the entire oil filter housing and use only the recommended oil weight. Using heavier oil seems to make the spring weaken sooner as well, I guess it compresses it further than it should. The actual design flaw however lies in the fact that the ball is sealing against a fiber reinforce plastic surface that gets brittle and starts flaking which allows the sealing surface to fail and lets oil drain back from the top of the engine. Also depending on the build date the ball could be steel or some type of plastic, I have seen both. The plastic ones seem to work better.

I have not found any validity to Hyundai's claim that using anything other than their oil filter causes that rattle(they claim this for all their vehicles, both cartridge filters and canister). The one thing I did observe is that Hyundai's cartridge filters seem to have a tighter fitting felt seal than most aftermarket brands, the o-ring seal versions seem to be the same.

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[rtrofimovich]

I would venture to say that the clatter/rattle on startup you are hearing is being caused by the anti-drainback ball valve inside the oil filter housing(not the bypass valve in the cap). The spring weakens over time, especially if you live somewhere that actually experiences more than 3 seasons per year. The only way I have found to fix that is to replace the entire oil filter housing and use only the recommended oil weight. Using heavier oil seems to make the spring weaken sooner as well, I guess it compresses it further than it should. The actual design flaw however lies in the fact that the ball is sealing against a fiber reinforce plastic surface that gets brittle and starts flaking which allows the sealing surface to fail and lets oil drain back from the top of the engine. Also depending on the build date the ball could be steel or some type of plastic, I have seen both. The plastic ones seem to work better.

Interesting, I may have to look into this.. How would this cause only warm start clatter/rattles?

 

[Joe29365]

It was my daily driver, so some stop and go traffic, but mostly highway miles. I definitely didn't abuse it, just the occasional pedal push to feel all the ponies. The timing chains weren't the problem (and I highly doubt they are stretched). The tensioner is what failed. Guides and chains are fine. Yeah
I found an engine with 25,000 miles for $1600. Would probably be worth just swapping it for a known-good unit if anything.

I have an '11 4.6L and would like to change the timing chain tensioner. This was a problem common to the BMW 540i that I used to own. The tensioner spring would fail and allow the chain to slap the plastic guides and eventually this would cause failure. Do you happen to have the tensioner part number? Is it fairly easy to get to? I suspect more 4.6L failures are due to the tensioner failing than most know.

 

[princelybug]

I have an '11 4.6L and would like to change the timing chain tensioner. This was a problem common to the BMW 540i that I used to own. The tensioner spring would fail and allow the chain to slap the plastic guides and eventually this would cause failure. Do you happen to have the tensioner part number? Is it fairly easy to get to? I suspect more 4.6L failures are due to the tensioner failing than most know.

Hyundai 24410-3F311​

Tensioner Assembly-Timing Chain

24410-3F311 - Hyundai Parts Deal

www.hyundaipartsdeal.com

 

[Joe29365]

Hyundai 24410-3F311​

Tensioner Assembly-Timing Chain

24410-3F311 - Hyundai Parts Deal

www.hyundaipartsdeal.com

Thanks you!!!

 

[Joe29365]

Thanks you!!!

Hyundai 24410-3F311​

Tensioner Assembly-Timing Chain

24410-3F311 - Hyundai Parts Deal

www.hyundaipartsdeal.com

So I order Hyundai part number 24410-3F311 (which is the upgraded part from -3F310) $212. This tensioner goes on the RH head. Part Number 24410-3F300 is the Tensioner for the LH head so I ordered this one also for $138. I'm hoping they aren't too difficult to get to in order to replace. Just doing this a preventative maintenance as the car is over 10 years old and I've seen them fail on other vehicles (other than the Genesis) as the springs get weak and the chain(s) starts slapping all the plastic guides and eventually everything fails.

 

[JCEire]

Some background - 2012 Genesis 4.6. Started to develop a rattle/clacking sound ONLY on warm starts where after driving the car at operating temps, I would shut it off, and if I started it again anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour afterwards, it would rattle for a second or two after ignition (as the RPMs settled to idle). Research led me to the conclusion that a bad timing chain tensioner was the culprit. Being a bit lazy and also pretty busy, I let it slide to the back of my mind and ignored it for about 20,000 miles. One day, the startup rattle was more persistent, lasting until I got on the gas a bit (oil pressure builds up, voila). Later that day, the car shook violently on the start sequence and wouldn't start. I had it towed home and there began my journey of disappointment.

*All of this was done with the engine in the car and took about a month and a half - mostly waiting on parts because parts suppliers don't know how to count to 8*
Removed airbox, rad fan shroud, all serpentine belt components (AC pump is tough, need an offset wrench and gotta approach it from under and behind - Alternator requires dropping the bracket and pulling the alternator out the top), intake manifold, water pump, thermostat, all tubing, all wiring, valve covers, two upper timing covers, and finally the lower timing cover (requires a LOT of prying to break the RTV seal). Found that the left bank (right side when standing in front of the car looking at it) timing chain tensioner spring was seized and slid back and forth in the channel without any spring tension. Right bank timing chain tensioner was good, guides were good (absolutely no wear), no significant signs of wear anywhere on cams. Cool. So my dad, brother, and I got to setting the timing. Here is my first point of annoyance with Hyundai. The crankshaft timing mark is a small half moon cutout in the flex plate that sits between the end of the crank shaft and the crankshaft pulley.. Why Hyundai... Why... Next, apparently Hyundai thought it amusing to make the timing links on the timing chain the same color as oil... and also, all the other links just a slightly different shade of oil/metal... Why Hyundai... Why... They are very difficult to identify and make the whole process more tedious. Anyhow, we got the timing set. To install tensioners, you screw them into their respective banks (different threads make it impossible to mix the caps up), then you push the pivoting chain guide arm against the tensioner to fire it, and slowly let it out. Also replaced the oil pump chain tensioner because why not. Check all the timing marks again, then go for a couple test spins of the crank. We noticed some uneven resistance we thought was just spring pressure on the cams. But before we started to reassemble, we decided to do a compression test. Right bank all checked out, left bank had no compression anywhere... Turns out the clearance pistons Hyundai uses aren't REALLY clearance pistons. All 8 exhaust valves on the left bank had fought the pistons, and the pistons won. So we got to taking off the head (requires a Sunex 212MZB 12mm head bolt socket, $20 on Amazon - also requires insane patience as there is almost no clearance to remove the lower exhaust header nuts, requires an offset wrench). This is where I lost all faith in Hyundai as a manufacturer. When we got the head off and pulled the head gasket, we found metal shavings from machining stuck in a water channel in the block pressed against the edge of the gasket. Nice quality control Hyundai, nice... Knocked out all the bent exhaust valves from the head, installed new valves (took three weeks to get them all, first received only 7 of the 8 that I ordered), bedded them in, dropped the head back on the block, torqued that sucker down to the specs in the service manual, reset all the timing, checked compression, and was relieved to see everything pump up to normal. Assembly lube was applied all the friction areas of the head. Now, this car is not designed to service the timing system with the motor still in the car, because the reassembly process of the lower timing cover requires both the lower and upper oil pans to be off. This forced us to come up with some creative re-engineering (ask for details if you like) of the timing cover and the overhang of the head gasket to ensure good RTV seals. Everything was then reassembled per the service manual and fluids were added. Cranked the car over and it started up after about 15 seconds. A period of clatter followed for about 5 seconds, then it quieted down as oil flow built up into the heads. Slight lifter ticking was still heard for a bit but gradually went away. Idle is very stable and there are no weird shudders or hesitations. Got the car up to operating temps and everything seemed normal. Shut it down, waited 10 minutes, and started it up again only to hear the SAME RATTLE/CLACKING NOISE AS BEFORE... Currently researching the deepest parts of the internet for as much information as I can get on what can be causing warm start rattles that is not the timing chain tensioners... There's lots to this story I didn't include, feel free to ask if there are any questions.

But I've made up my mind... this is the first and LAST Hyundai I will own... and its a shame because I really did enjoy the Genesis while it was running well.

I attached a few photos of the process, including the failed tensioner and the metal shavings I found in the block.

TL;DR - Thought timing chain tensioner was causing rattle, timing chain tensioner killed my valves, fixed the whole left bank valve train and entire timing system only to have the car continue to rattle. Found reasons along the way to never buy another Hyundai.

Hi, I'm working on my 2012 - same engine but more serious issues. I have to take off the front timing cover, and I am very interested in your work around to get it back on without taking the engine out of the car. Just today I was taking off the exhaust manifold on the driver's side bank - and your suggestion of offset wrenches is just what I need! I'll be going to buy some this evening...

 

[rtrofimovich]

Hi, I'm working on my 2012 - same engine but more serious issues. I have to take off the front timing cover, and I am very interested in your work around to get it back on without taking the engine out of the car. Just today I was taking off the exhaust manifold on the driver's side bank - and your suggestion of offset wrenches is just what I need! I'll be going to buy some this evening...

Unfortunately our "work around" didn't actually work. We got leaks a few minutes after first start up. It didn't really matter in the end though since the same rattle persisted. I ended up replacing the engine with a low mileage yard unit that's still going strong 25,000 miles later. (I have a thread on that process as well). You will have to pull the engine to replace the engine cover, there's just no way around it that we could figure out and honestly we should have pulled the engine to begin with, would have saved tons of headaches. I know that's probably not the answer you wanted to hear but that's just the reality of it.

 

[JCEire]

That makes sense... Unfortunately, I diagnosed that a timing chain tensioner on the LH Bank failed. It broke four intake valves and one of them did a lot of damage to the cylinder head. For example, it deformed one of the valve seats.

I've decided to replace the engine - its about the least risky thing to do, and I've sourced a relatively low-mileage one. I'll be checking out your thread on replacing the engine. I have a question about how best to lift the engine off it's mounts, but I'll read up your thread first.

Thank you!

 

[rtrofimovich]

That makes sense... Unfortunately, I diagnosed that a timing chain tensioner on the LH Bank failed. It broke four intake valves and one of them did a lot of damage to the cylinder head. For example, it deformed one of the valve seats.

I've decided to replace the engine - its about the least risky thing to do, and I've sourced a relatively low-mileage one. I'll be checking out your thread on replacing the engine. I have a question about how best to lift the engine off it's mounts, but I'll read up your thread first.

Thank you!

The engine can be shoe horned out of the bay without removing the front end. Good luck on the swap!