Support for suspension issues

[LLT]

I wonder if other suspension components have been overtorqued, compressing the bushings. If the torquing is inconsistent from car to car, this could possibly explain the hard ride and the ride variances between cars.

I haven't had the interest to check the rear, but I did happened to notice there's less "jolt" in the front. I didn't think much of it as it didn't really bother me before and I just felt it was characteristic of the poorly tuned suspension, but even my wife noted how much quieter and smoother it felt and like most wives, so long as the vehicle isn't on fire, she's content with 4 wheels and a seat.

Loosening, leveling the vehicle to ride height via jack-stand then re-torqueing properly made a difference on the right side, but I think the damage was done - I'm going to replace the bushings on that side as well.... Then finally enjoy the car.

 

[Mark_888]

I wonder if other suspension components have been overtorqued, compressing the bushings. If the torquing is inconsistent from car to car, this could possibly explain the hard ride and the ride variances between cars.
Incredible that Hyundai couldn't diagnose this, but my dealer experiences haven't been good either. They don't seem to know anything about the Genesis and don't seem to want to find out either.
How are they going to sell a $50K Equus? Anyone paying that amount of money for a car is going to DEMAND a much higher level of service.

Hyundai knew they had a problem at least 8 months ago, and they set out to correct it in the 2010 suspension design/tuning. I know that the final 2010 suspension tuning was decided about 6 months ago and was personally approved by John Krafcik, Acting President and Chief Executive Officer of HMA. I have been assured that the 2010 ride is improved without changing the overall firmness and good handling of the current model.

As to why they don't fix the 2009 models, there are several possibilities:

1) It is too expensive for them fix every 2009 at HMA's own expense, especially since some people claim everything is fine, or

2) Hyundai thinks it might be embarrassing to admit there is a problem while still trying to sell 2009 models, and it might hurt 2009 sales, or

3) The 2009 Genesis was EPA tested and crash-tested with old suspension, and it is not permitted to change the suspension in mid year without re-certifying the car, which could be very costly, time consuming, and logistically awkward.

Remember that when you are talking to a dealer, they probably do know what suspension changes are coming in 2010, but there is not anything they can do for 2009 models unless Hyundai decides to issue a TSB and fix it (which they are under no legal obligation to do). So they usually just deny any knowledge of the problem.

When all the 2009 models are sold, we may get some clarity on these issues, but no public announcement has been made that I know of as to whether any 2010 changes can be applied to 2009 models, or who would pay for it if it is possible to retrofit the changes, and whether Hyundai would provide a warranty if 2010 parts were put on the 2009 model.

 

[rb cline]

Howdy Boys,

Well at last we are starting to get somewhere with this ride/suspension issue. I never did think that wheel,tire and pressure combinations were going to give satisfaction. Thanks to LLT we have some objective results. And with Mark 888's insite, those of us who were holding off buying a Gennie till it all got sorted can take heart.

I've had 3 test drives and 1 30 minute stent behind the wheel a friends Gennie. All early production. I wonder if the crash/clatter generated in the front end when crossing RR tracks has been helped by LLT's work. Also there is a thumpy quality to the rear suspension over uneven pavement that could well respond to the bushing/torque fix. I'm so pleased that sombody is starting to close in on the ride/suspension problem as it was the only thing holding me back from purchase. As is, the 2010s are so close I just got to wait it out a little longer.

Now all we need is someone who knows their way around the practical aspects of shock valving, selection, etc.
Thanks again to you pioneers. I don't think we got the "be all" yet but damn if I don't think you'er getting close.

Keep on keeping on,
Dick

 

[SCVDon]

I have owned the car for a week now. I find that suspension is very odd and uncomfortable at times. Definitely not what i expect from a luxury car, but to be fare its not 80k like a 750i. I find that it puts jolts into my back when i hit bumps as if the car is bottoming out or hitting a bump stop. I came to this car from a G35 coupe, and that car you felt everything but the car didnt bounce or put shots into my spine, it just rode over the bumps with no bouncyness. I wanted to get out of the sports car genre and move into something more comfortable since i work in sales and i am always driving from appointment to appointment. Car currently has 389 miles on it.

This is more or less the same feeling that I have regarding the front suspension. I think if Koni or Bilstein offers an aftermarket shock replacement in the near term that I'll suggest to my wife that we install them. She drives the car from the Santa Clarita Valley down the I-5 and I-405 and back in rush hour traffic and so rarely drives on anything other than S. CA's freeways. I get to drive the car only on weekends going to restaurants and am the only driver that takes it on rough roads in the area. We sold our 2000 Lincoln LS and purchased the Genesis as the replacment car. The Lincoln was the best handling large car that we've owned. It ate up bumps and didn't hop over the worst roads we have in our town. That's about the only good thing I can say about that car. There's one road in my town that is a mess, bumps and patches for about one mile causing the Gennie to hop in the back and and has a poorly repaired section of road that seems to put the front suspension of our V8 Gennie down on it's front bump stops while at the same time hopping in the back. It's a harsh bump with any car, but horrible in the Gennie. My extra firm modified suspension '06 GTO can take this road better than the Gennie and it's got a much firmer suspension. So I don't believe it's a problem with overly firm suspension as much as it is poorly valved shocks. If Hyundai changes the tuning of the 2010 Gennie that resolves the poor bump control issue and offered an upgrade package for owners of the 2009 owners I'd be the 1st to sign up for it.

 

[gipp]

Latest long term test report from Car and Drivermagazine. "The Genesis is an important car for Hyundai...So far, there are two camps:The Genesis detractors who decry the ride quality and feel it is cheap and those who don't like the ride quality but are amazed by upscale the Genesis feels." Can anyone say FATAL FLAW ?

 

[SterlingDave]

Latest long term test report from Car and Drivermagazine. "The Genesis is an important car for Hyundai...So far, there are two camps:The Genesis detractors who decry the ride quality and feel it is cheap and those who don't like the ride quality but are amazed by upscale the Genesis feels." Can anyone say FATAL FLAW ?

Sounds like Car and Driver mag does not do a good job of "reporting". Did your quote [from the mag] mean that the Genesis detractors are split into two groups....both negative? Or did it mean that there are [only] two camps: "those who decry ... and those who don't like the ride quality...."?

I'm not sure what your "FATAL FLAW" is supposed to mean . What about another group: those of us who are well satisfied with the ride quality? [Certainly there are other groups.]

Care to elaborate?

 

[Bear]

I don't know if anyone who is satisfied with the ride is checking this part of the forum, but if you are I have a question. Do you drive on any highways with bad seams on all of the section? I not talk for a quarter of a mile; my question is mile after mile.

 

[gipp]

I beleive they are reporting that all of thier test drivers to date have been complaining about the ride quality.

The fatal flaw is a term developed by Aristotle in his work Poetics. The term can simply be seen as a flaw or error. The term is rooted in the notion of missing the mark (hamartanein) and covers a broad spectrum that includes accident and mistake, mistakes committed in ignorance (when the the results are not what they were supposed they were)and a failure to remedy the mistake.

The fata flaw is a staple of the Greek tragedies. In Greek tragedy, stories that contain a character with a hamartia often follow a similar blueprint as the Genesis. The suspension, as stated, is seen as an error in judgment or unwitting mistake is applied to the actions of the hero. For example, the hero might attempt to achieve a certain objective (Luxury brand marquee); but by making an error in judgment(suspension), however, the hero instead achieves the opposite of , with disastrous consequences, ie - the Genesis serves to be referrred to as a failed attempt to build a true world class sedan aka the VW Phateon.
The term fatal flaw is reinforced by Hyundai's failure to recocognize or fix the suspension issues.
This failure to act, in turn, must lead to a poor change in fortune for the main character in order for it to truly be a hamartia or tragedy.

Only future sales, reviews and resales to existing Genesis owners will prove if the the launch of the otherwise noteworthy Genesis becomes a classic Greeek tragedy due to the supsension.
Those of us who love every aspect of the Genesis except it's primary mission of delivering a smooth comforatable ride clearly view this to be a tragedy of $42,000 in proportion.

Remember that it took Infiniti almost 6 years and the G35 to recover from initial marketing issues with the Q45-even though most thought it was a great car. Hyundai really needs to step up to the plate and prove it wants to be a player in this market segment by addressing the suspension issues for all 2009 owners and build a reputation as a brand that stands behind it products- as the real luxury marquee players do. Otherwise, yes the suspension will be the the fatal flaw.

 

[SterlingDave]

I beleive they are reporting that all of thier test drivers to date have been complaining about the ride quality.

The fatal flaw is a term developed by Aristotle in his work Poetics. The term can simply be seen as a flaw or error. The term is rooted in the notion of missing the mark (hamartanein) and covers a broad spectrum that includes accident and mistake, mistakes committed in ignorance (when the the results are not what they were supposed they were)and a failure to remedy the mistake.

The fata flaw is a staple of the Greek tragedies. In Greek tragedy, stories that contain a character with a hamartia often follow a similar blueprint as the Genesis. The suspension, as stated, is seen as an error in judgment or unwitting mistake is applied to the actions of the hero. For example, the hero might attempt to achieve a certain objective (Luxury brand marquee); but by making an error in judgment(suspension), however, the hero instead achieves the opposite of , with disastrous consequences, ie - the Genesis serves to be referrred to as a failed attempt to build a true world class sedan aka the VW Phateon.
The term fatal flaw is reinforced by Hyundai's failure to recocognize or fix the suspension issues.
This failure to act, in turn, must lead to a poor change in fortune for the main character in order for it to truly be a hamartia or tragedy.

Only future sales, reviews and resales to existing Genesis owners will prove if the the launch of the otherwise noteworthy Genesis becomes a classic Greeek tragedy due to the supsension.
Those of us who love every aspect of the Genesis except it's primary mission of delivering a smooth comforatable ride clearly view this to be a tragedy of $42,000 in proportion.

Wow, Gipp, thanks for the discourse on the source of the term. Even though I knew what a fatal flaw is, I wasn't aware of its storied roots. Actually, I was trying to understand your use of the term (as it relates to the Genesis). It appears that you believe that the suspension of the Genesis is a "fatal flaw." Is that the case? Is that an overall "flaw" or is it correctable perhaps in 2010 (as so many have rumored)? Or is it just an integral part of the design which might be a "fatal flaw" which cannot be corrected? Your sweeping generalization leaves me wondering.

You seem to have identified yet another group not identified in Car and Driver: "Those of us who love every aspect of the Genesis except it's [sic] primary mission of delivering a smooth comforatable [sic] ride". It appears that you are a member of this group....yes?

 

[Genesis380]

Just got off the line with Hyundai Consumer services as a followup to my dealer visit last week. They said the district rep has the final say, and that the verdict is that my Genesis is "normal". I asked him how it could be normal if the loaner Genesis rode so much better. Of course there wasn't a reasonable response. I asked whether any fixes are planned as I need a reason to keep the car, otherwise I'll trade it. He said that as far as ke knows there are no planned fixes for the suspension because there isn't a problem.
Well there you go folks.

My Hyundai Experiment has failed.

I'll trade this bucking bronco for a real car in a few months. I don't want to take the hit right now.

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[GripperDon]

Genesis 380, I sure hope that I don't have to join you.

LLT you mentioned you were going to replace bushings. Did you and what was the result.

 

[gipp]

Sterling Dave,
Hopefully the 2010 fixes mentioned in other threads will be available for the 2009 pioneers and the fatal flaw will be corrected and the tradegy will become a storybook romance.

 

[JayJay]

I know that this is a ymmv, but my v8 has had no problems at at all with suspension. Then again, maybe I am just used to hyundai suspension since I owned two others? I had passengers in the backseat the other day, and they all said how smooth the thing drove. The front passengers never have any problems either. And I think that the car drives amazingly. I live in Houston, and we have pretty shitty roads. Maybe I just got lucky?

 

[dtreter]

I know that this is a ymmv, but my v8 has had no problems at at all with suspension. Then again, maybe I am just used to hyundai suspension since I owned two others? I had passengers in the backseat the other day, and they all said how smooth the thing drove. The front passengers never have any problems either. And I think that the car drives amazingly. I live in Houston, and we have pretty shitty roads. Maybe I just got lucky?

Ditto. We have a 3.8 Tech and have had no problems with the suspension system. It does drive a little rough on poor roads but nothing compare to what others are saying. Pennsylvania is known to have the worst roads (just ask the truckers about PA roads) but we have been satisfied with the ride in our Genesis sedan. I guess we are lucky too.

 

[QCTLG]

I know that this is a ymmv, but my v8 has had no problems at at all with suspension. Then again, maybe I am just used to hyundai suspension since I owned two others? I had passengers in the backseat the other day, and they all said how smooth the thing drove. The front passengers never have any problems either. And I think that the car drives amazingly. I live in Houston, and we have pretty shitty roads. Maybe I just got lucky?

JayJay,

Please add me too to the "lucky list". My 4.6 drives and handles superb, as a matter of fact, I would only change my suspension if Hyundai tells me that there's a high probability of my shocks exploding while cruising! There's no way in hell they are going to touch my suspension. I couldn't care less what they do with the 2010 suspension!!!

Actually I must be the luckiest person in the world!
I love my car!!!!

 

[doug725]

Why would you even think anyone is going to touch your suspension? Even if an adjustment is offered to 2009 owners (not holding breath) it's hardly anything you'd be forced to do. LOL.

JayJay,

Please add me too to the "lucky list". My 4.6 drives and handles superb, as a matter of fact, I would only change my suspension if Hyundai tells me that there's a high probability of my shocks exploding while cruising! There's no way in hell they are going to touch my suspension. I couldn't care less what they do with the 2010 suspension!!!

Actually I must be the luckiest person in the world!
I love my car!!!!

 

[PINGGOLF]

I have yet to hear of a Genesis bouncing into oncoming traffic, off the road, or into a culvert. OR...a wreck caused by suspension issues on the Gen. "Fatal flaw??"

We all must be thinking about the times when we had 80's model Grand Marquis, Crown Vic's and Olds Regency Ninety-Eight's. Those cars FLOATED! You will be hard-pressed to find that kind of ride these days.

At 16 years of age (im now 29) I had a 1987 Baby Blue Mercury Grand Marquis, upgraded to a 198? Ford Crown Vic with the 5.0 (sweet sleeper), then to a 198? Oldsmobile Regency Ninety-Eight. I have yet to hop in a ride that rode better than those. To expect that kind of suspension performance (or lack thereof) out of todays sedans is silly.

Back then, I would have never taken turns like I do now. There is a certain ramp coming from I-565 to I-65 south, that is a long left turn. 15 years ago, I remember taking that turn at 45mph in the Crown Vic...and TELLING people about it like It was the coolest thing since sliced bread! Now, the other night in the Gen...alone, I took the turn at 93 mph!!! That speaks pretty loudly to me about how things have changed...even my sexy figure! HA!

I still cannot understand as to why we all test drove our cars before we bought them and half of us are whining about suspension issues. Is it me? It sounds like the next time we (you) buy a car, we (you) will take a much more detailed route before we (you) come to the conclusion. Of course this has already been mention about 100 times! HA!


for all those toes I just stepped on!

 

[PINGGOLF]

"Yes- yesterday I checked air pressure and indeed, the rear two tires were significantly overinflated - despite my request to the dealer to check air pressure before I picked it up. Properly inflating and adding some weight in the back made a big difference on that strecth of 88 where I oscillated yesterday Still was some oscillation on that stretch - today, but not as much. I do think there is a bit of an issue for the car on certain (as you say 2%) of surfaces - it's not enough of an issue to be a deal breaker for me, but should probably be addressed by Hyundai. For me its the only "negative" on an otherwise wonderful car."

hmmmmm....i thought this was funny.

 

[doug725]

And the answer to this has been posted about 100 times as well.


I still cannot understand as to why we all test drove our cars before we bought them and half of us are whining about suspension issues. Is it me? It sounds like the next time we (you) buy a car, we (you) will take a much more detailed route before we (you) come to the conclusion. Of course this has already been mention about 100 times! HA!


for all those toes I just stepped on! [/QUOTE]

 

[Pahaska]

I drove a V6 and then a V8 for about 20 miles each, first the V6, then the V8. Thr routes were different, but all involved some interstate, some state roads, and some county roads, including some pretty poorly maintained pavement.

My impression was that it is a taut suspension, that the V8 felt heavier and more stable than the V6, and that, in both cases, accelleration and cornering was noticeably better than my Azera.

Sure, it is a taut suspension, but my only gripe is that I have to take it super easy over those sharp little parking lot speed bumps.

I find that on most highway curves, driver and passenger comfort is the limiting factor rather than adhesion.