Support for suspension issues

[doug725]

I'm right there with you 3587 - sometimes I get car sick/queasy just riding down the highway - particularly if you look at the motion of the mirrors too much.

 

[doug725]

Hyundai knows all about it. I for one have given them detailed verbal and written info and had numerous conversations with Genesis 'team" members and regional guys. They indicated they have a national d-base all this info is entered into. They also read the forums. Nonetheless, they will ALWAYS tell you that they never heard the issue before and/or you are the only one to ever complain. Unfortunately, we have become the test mules for the 2010 version.

 

[doug725]

I think I've mentioned that over the last month or so I've driven over 20 different vehicles on the exact same 50 mile round trip circuit in an attempt to find a trade for my Genny. I've sorted them by ride characteristic and thought I'd share it for what it's worth. Due to the variable nature of the Genny suspension I used quite a few categories and had to place it by temperature as you'll see. Otherwise cars, were driven under similar conditions (cold!).

Ranking based on the amount of bounciness, jitteriness, transmission of road imperfections into cabin, movement over swells/expansion joints/bumps/tar strips, and/or bucking/porpoising on undulating pavement on this circuit. Other characteristics such as road feel or agility not defined.

Very High
Hyundai Genesis 3.8 (outside temp 0 or below)

High
Hyundai Genesis 3.8 (outside temp 0 - 32)

High Medium
Hyundai Genesis 3.8 (outside temp 32-50)

High Low
Hyundai Genesis 3.8 (outside temp 50 and above)
Hyundai Genesis V8 (don’t remember the temp)
2009 Hyundai Sante Fe V6

Medium
2009 Nissan Maxima
2009 Acura TSX
2002 Toyota RAV4
2006 Infiniti M35x
2009 Hyundai Sonata V6
2009 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 (dealer demo, temp 50)

Medium Low
2009 Infiniti M35x
2002.5 Hyundai Sante Fe V6
2009 Mazda 6 V6
2009 Nissan Murano (19” wheels)
2008 Lexus IS (certain road surfaces only)
2007 Acura TL
2006 Nissan Maxima
2006 Volkswagen Passat

Low
2009 Honda Accord
2009 Acura RL
2009 Acura TL
2009 Nissan Murano (18” wheels)
2009 Mercury Milan V6
2006 Lexus GS
2009 Infiniti EX

Minimal/barely noticeable or non-existent
2008 Toyota Camry
2008 Lexus ES350
2009 Lexus ES350
2009 Lincoln MKS

 

[rcerulli]

I have owned the car for a week now. I find that suspension is very odd and uncomfortable at times. Definitely not what i expect from a luxury car, but to be fare its not 80k like a 750i. I find that it puts jolts into my back when i hit bumps as if the car is bottoming out or hitting a bump stop. I came to this car from a G35 coupe, and that car you felt everything but the car didnt bounce or put shots into my spine, it just rode over the bumps with no bouncyness. I wanted to get out of the sports car genre and move into something more comfortable since i work in sales and i am always driving from appointment to appointment. Car currently has 389 miles on it.

 

[doug725]

rcerulli -

"very odd and uncomfortable at times. Definitely not what i expect from a luxury car'

good way to describe it.

 

[HughH]

rcerulli -

"very odd and uncomfortable at times. Definitely not what i expect from a luxury car'

good way to describe it.

That seems to describe my 07 Lexus GS350 with sports factory suspension. I just returned a 08 ES350 loaner that I kept overnight due to a recall and the ride is marvelous. Also, the car is so silent compared to my GS350 over the same roads...it's incredible!

 

[doug725]

Your right those GS w/sport are known to be a bit rough. I drove the non-sport and it was OK - but you did feel bumps.

 

[SCVDon]

I own a '06 Pontiac GTO that I've upgraded the suspension to just below true race track stiffness. I used to road rally and autocross and do like a good suspension, even if it is stiff. These GTO's had all kinds of problems with their suspension as supplied by GM and needed aftermarket stuff to be what they should have been when built. Problems that included tires rubbing against the front struts and blowing out due to soft rubber bushings. Plus strut bushings that were shot when delivered or soon there after. The '06 GTO's also had struts and shocks that leaked all their oil due to screwup at the maker. A long list of problems that doesn't have to be listed here on the Genesis forum. I went one more step beyond normal road ride quality with my Goat and went with extra firm stuff - replaced nearly every bushing with urethane bushings plus scraped the springs, front and rear struts/shocks and replaced them all with special stuff from Pedders.

I bring this up because while I do like firm suspensions, when pushing a car to the limit, that's out of place in the Genesis.

The Genesis that my wife and I just bought has a decent ride on most roads, but does have some strange behavior on some roads due to what I think is mostly caused by incorrect shock valving. The car isn't really all that bad normally, but isn't top notch either. When on the wrong kind of road it is rather suprising in it's unsettled nature. The car is no where near as bad as the XG350 that we once owned. (Our Genesis is our 3rd Hyundai) That XG350 had Buick Roadmaster-like suspension. It was your father's Buick. Very soft and underdampened and with lots of leaning on turns. Great car overall, but really needed lots of extra sway bar diameter and better shocks.

It seems to me that the Genesis is nearly correct overall, but the shocks//struts are unbalanced front to rear (allows pitching) plus both ends allow too quick return to steady state ride height after a bump. The car suspension is quite stiff on impact with a bump (up) but then soft (underdampened) as the car returns to normal height. You get the feeling that you are bouncing up into the air while you are just returning to steady state. Plus the front and rear are reacting at different recovery rates gives some strange pitching motions to the car. I think the rear shocks could be the ones that are too stiff/too soft.

But I need more time in the car to be sure - if the wife will ever let me drive it, that is. She happy with the car as is since she's driving mostly on car choked S. CA freeways.

I don't know if the settings can be tweaked in software - aren't the Genesis shocks computer controlled and adjustable? To me, I'd like to see some experiments with balancing the rear to the front so that both ends return to steady state together vs. acting like they are on two different cars. Maybe get Hyundai to hire Lotus to tune the suspension. That's something that they are known for and could be a selling point too.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Mark_888]

I don't know if the settings can be tweaked in software - aren't the Genesis shocks computer controlled and adjustable? To me, I'd like to see some experiments with balancing the rear to the front so that both ends return to steady state together vs. acting like they are on two different cars. Maybe get Hyundai to hire Lotus to tune the suspension. That's something that they are known for and could be a selling point too.

Just my $0.02.

No, the suspension system of the US model is not user adjustable, either mechanically or electronically (the Koren model uses an air suspension system, although the 5-point multi-link is probably the same).

Apparently Hyundai will be making some adjustments for 2010 model, but no official announcement on that yet (obviously), and no word on whether the change can be or will be available to 2009 owners, either free or if we pay for it.

 

[thomaspf]

It seems to me that the Genesis is nearly correct overall, but the shocks//struts are unbalanced front to rear (allows pitching) plus both ends allow too quick return to steady state ride height after a bump. The car suspension is quite stiff on impact with a bump (up) but then soft (underdampened) as the car returns to normal height. You get the feeling that you are bouncing up into the air while you are just returning to steady state. Plus the front and rear are reacting at different recovery rates gives some strange pitching motions to the car. I think the rear shocks could be the ones that are too stiff/too soft.

Yes, that is a good description what happens at some resonance points where the excitement from the street get the suspension into a state where there seems to be no dampening anymore. If you hit this exactly at the right frequency you are violently moving up and down like in a bull ride.

I also would expect that this issue could be fixed by adjusting spring and dampening rates but so far Hyundai tells us the car is "operating as designed" ...

Welcome to the club

Cheers

Thomas

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[Mark_888]

I also would expect that this issue could be fixed by adjusting spring and dampening rates but so far Hyundai tells us the car is "operating as designed" ...

I don't claim to be an expert on this subject, but I don't think the springs and shocks on the Genesis are adjustable. The can be swapped out, but the current springs and shocks are working as designed, even if the design was not very good.

 

[USMA84]

No, the suspension system of the US model is not user adjustable, either mechanically or electronically (the Koren model uses an air suspension system, although the 5-point multi-link is probably the same).

Apparently Hyundai will be making some adjustments for 2010 model, but no official announcement on that yet (obviously), and no word on whether the change can be or will be available to 2009 owners, either free or if we pay for it.

As someone who is still "on the fence" on purchasing a Genesis, that may be the deciding factor in holding out until the '10s hit delaer lots.

I'd be very interested in any "official" announcements on planned changes to the suspension for the '10 model year. Keep the great information coming!

 

[thomaspf]

I don't claim to be an expert on this subject, but I don't think the springs and shocks on the Genesis are adjustable. The can be swapped out, but the current springs and shocks are working as designed, even if the design was not very good.

Sure, but fixing the shocks and the springs is better than a redesign of the suspension. My point is that this can be fixed. As I said before if they would somehow would offer an upgrade to the adjustable air springs I would jump on that.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[Mark_888]

Sure, but fixing the shocks and the springs is better than a redesign of the suspension. My point is that this can be fixed. As I said before if they would somehow would offer an upgrade to the adjustable air springs I would jump on that.

Cheers, Thomas

I suspect that the change will be fairly minor to the existing springs/shocks. But my point is that you cannot expect that to be done by a dealer until they get specific parts and/or instructions on how to do it. So when a dealer or HMA office says it is working as designed, they are correct, and there is nothing the field can do about it yet.

Hopefully Hyundai will make the 2010 changes available to 2009 customers. I even wonder if they will slipstream the changes into remaining 2009 vehicles just now being built (I would if I were them).

I don't think we will see an adjustable air suspension like the Korean version until maybe 2011 (or maybe never), but that is just my guess and not based on any solid information.

I wonder if any mod shops would be willing to look at the current Korean model suspension and figure out if those parts could be installed on North American versions, but that my be too soft for some.

 

[bilmat]

In an ideal world, Hyundai would recognize that a number of its current Genesis owners would be more pleased with the vehicle if it had a mildly softer rear suspension and come up with a factory kit that dealers would be able to install without impacting the warranty. My 4.6 was such a bargain that I for one would be willing to shell out some bucks for a ride that was a little less harsh under road conditions that are less than ideal. There's a stretch of Hwy 880 in Oakland here in the Bay Area that could cause some teeth to lose their fillings.

Such a kit won't happen, of course, as Hyundai would be admitting that there is in fact a suspension issue in the eyes (and butts) of some owners. That's not to say I feel there's an issue with the suspension as I knew what I was buying before I handed over the check. But with several hours of seat time now under my belt, I'd pony up some bucks to soften the ride some. I take 880 through Oakland from time to time, and I'd rather hand my money over to my Hyundai dealer for the installation of factory-approved softer shocks (or whatever was necessary) than my dentist.

Bill in Fremont, CA
Platinum/Black 4.6 Tech

 

[skyfox99]

Is there really anything wrong with those of you who are concerned about the stiffness of the suspension? Or is really that you would just prefer a softer ride. The vehicle is rather large and quite a bit of weight to it. I Love the car, and with the 4.6, I don't know if I would really want a softer suspension for handling preference... especially since the pricetag of the Gen is so reasonable as it is... so I am just curious as to why everyone is saying there are "issues" with the suspension where I don't believe a personal preference is an issue.

 

[ttsig]

Is there really anything wrong with those of you who are concerned about the stiffness of the suspension? Or is really that you would just prefer a softer ride. The vehicle is rather large and quite a bit of weight to it. I Love the car, and with the 4.6, I don't know if I would really want a softer suspension for handling preference... especially since the pricetag of the Gen is so reasonable as it is... so I am just curious as to why everyone is saying there are "issues" with the suspension where I don't believe a personal preference is an issue.

Well, in my case I actually would prefer a slightly softer ride, however, I've become accustomed to the somewhat stiff ride and do enjoy it's "sportiness". Probably 99% of the time I don't even think about it. My friends think it rides great and several have been with me on fairly long (multi-hour) road trips. The two who own BMW's really think my Genny rides smooth.

That being said, I've found a few stretches of road that do something to the Genny that transform it from a slightly stiff ride into a bone jarring, teeth chattering, bucking bronco style of ride. The first time this happened I thought I had blown a tire or something. This is what I consider a defect. I've never had a vehicle that broke down in such a way over just one specific road surface.

Fortunately the roads that I've experienced this on have all been in other states, and 95% of my driving is my daily commute. However, if I lived in an area where this road surface was more common I'd probably hate the car, it really is that bad.

In others words, I'm not one of the owners that think my Genny drives bad on pretty much every road, I actually think it's pretty good most of the time, and I really wouldn't care if they ever fix that "problem" (although I'll admit that for my next car I'll probably shop for a slightly softer ride). However on those few roads that I've experienced, something happens that turns the car into a very strange beast and I think that really does need to be "fixed".

 

[Mark_888]

Is there really anything wrong with those of you who are concerned about the stiffness of the suspension? Or is really that you would just prefer a softer ride.

Neither. The problem is that under certain circumstances the suspension starts oscillating, and if the road is rough, it can loose control. Several cars with a noticeably firmer ride like BMW and Infiniti M do not have this problem.

 

[doug725]

I think reducing it to terms of soft vs. firm ride just confuses the issue. There is firm and there there is just downright odd. Indeed, the best description I've heard of the ride characteristics that matches my experience was "odd". That simple word goes along way to explain why some owners/test drivers seem to have major complaints, some have none, and some have a few complaints about the ride, but are overall satisfied. It may also explain why some days my car would ride OK and other days be dramatically worse. Sometimes, it would be fine in the morning and bad in the afternoon or vica versa. It seemed better when it was warm and/or raining outside but not always. Sometimes weight in the trunk (more than 120 but less than 200 pds) helped, sometimes not. A full tank of gas and/or a passenger helped, but not always. I got ridiculous to try to figure it out after awhile so I just gave up.

I knew the car was a firm/acceptable ride when I bought it and by no means expected a luxo barge. What I did not expect or experience in all my test drives was the almost constant pitchiness/movement, harshness, low level vibration transmitted the the cabin, the feel of every minor road imperfection, and the tendancy to oscillate strangely on some types of road surfaces. So, there is firm and then there is what I experienced. I think the issue is ultimately a combination of the suspension characteristics of the Genesis, the particular vehicle you have, the roads you encounter and your tolerance level. Unfortunately, I found my Genesis almost completely unable to handle the roads I encounter everyday on my commute. For myself and my passengers it was intolerable and, I may add, unaceptable in a vehicle with luxury aspirations. Having now driven 23 other vehicles during my trade in process my Genesis is the ONLY vehicle for which I have felt that way. When I also experienced and read an excessive number of owner statements about very similar issues with some Azeras and Sonatas I sensed a trend. The Milan I have been driving for over a week now is not ruffled in the least by the roads on my commute and it is a firm (but controlled) ride. I did't take a $5500 loss on my Genny just because I prefer a smooth ride. Believe me I really like my Genesis except for that one thing.

I used to think I was the only one who was/is unhappy with the ride on their Genesis. I am not. I have no idea the percentage of unhappiness (1%, 2%, 5%, 10% - who knows or cares.). What I do know is that I have over 75 individual comments and emails about the poor ride experience from owners or people who test drove and walked the other way. Several have taken the initative as I did to take a loss and trade. There are also reviews/blogs that mention suspension issues including the recent from Automobile Mag which is largely ignored in here:

" appalling ride quality"

"the Genesis seemed incapable of absorbing the smallest road imperfection"

"The ride is very busy over bumps and harsh over expansion joints "

" the ride is very harsh for a luxury car. During my first weekend with the car I attributed the harsh ride to the weather, which was cold and snowy. But when ambient temperatures crested 40 degrees this past weekend, the poor ride became even more annoying and noticeable. Most luxury cars insulate you from road imperfections much better than the Genesis does"

Sometimes I think the suspension is a bit too fancy/complicated for it's own good. Even the video reviews posted in oncars.com mentions that the car tries to be both lux and sporty at the same time and does not fully succeed at either. Did they use the word unusual?? Sure enough, if you carefully watch the video of them driving the car you'll see a lot of front end up and down movement over what appears to be a smooth road.

There are also reviews that mention a smooth ride so any review or owner comment is just part of the picture. It's all very odd, but I suspect whatever issue exists is fairly easily corrected without losing the good/sporty ride characteristics of the car.

 

[Canadian]

I've had my Genesis for 3 months and wanted to give it a fair shake before deciding on which side of the suspension issue I fall. Now, I have to agree it has "issues". Even if we are to believe those who say a more comfortable ride can only be achieved at the expense of handling, I would gladly trade 3 mph around the onramp for for the ability to breathe on bad roads. On smooth roads the ride is great. Bad roads that make other cars "uncomfortable" make the Genesis "unbearable". All the raves from journalists are based on test tracks and scenic mountain roads in California. Not sure how many undulating, pitted, heaved, pot-holed surfaces they encountered on the race track, but I think the Automobile Mag report is more representative of day-to-day driving. My experience may be somewhat polarized as I travel a farm road twice per day that has earned the dubious distinction of "most dangerous road in Ontario" due to the heaving and buckling that occur every winter.
I'm nowhere near taking a loss on the car but would jump if Hyundai offers a fix. As for Hyundai, they have taken a big gamble on this car and it worries me that they aren't taking the longterm view. Even if they had to pay $500 per vehicle to fix the problem, how many are out there and would want the fix? Even if it's 10,000 cars, that's only $5million - the cost of a SuperBowl ad. Weigh this against the lost sales for the next 10 years if the complaints get more numerous and gain wider media coverage. In the meantime, I try to find smooth roads and enjoy the other 95% of my Genesis experience. That's my 2 cents (1.5 Canadian).