Support for suspension issues

[WAGunner]

OK.
After reading 18 pages of this, here is my take on this issue (as if you people care ) I have had my Genesis just a few days now. It definitely has a "floatier" drive and more side to side rocking than any of the Lexus, Acura or Infiniti's I have owned. In a more minor way it reminds me of Lincoln Town Cars or some cars along that line. If Hyundai plans on "tightening" up the handling described above I certainly would be all in favor of it. If it were a situation where they provided parts and I just had to cover labor I would gladly make the payment. I think as time progresses, the ride issue might start to bother me a bit more, or I may just adjust to its nuances. Being 6'3" however I do have a tendency to shift in the seat more with the rocking then I have in any other car (other than a Town Car).

Just my humble 2 cents. Cheers.

 

[ctrcbob]

For the most part, I have kept out of this thread. I have come to the conclusion that every Genesis must have some differences from others. Doug725 has many issues and it is his right to talk about them. I only agree with one thing, where his car is like mine. The REAR SUSPENSION on mine is harsh, just like Dougs, but that is the only thing that is the same. When I went out with two people in the rear seat, the rear suspension softened up. (Yes, I know I don't always have people riding in the rear).

I have none of the Bouncing, up and down motion that Doug talks about. I have none of the handeling problems talked about. I have none of the control problems talked about. The wind does not blow my car around, side to side. None of those problems. When I go over speed bumps, the fronts suspensions soaks up the bump, but I do feel it in the rear suspension. Like I said before, some Genesis' must be different from other Genesis'.

Lastly, I want to mention the Milan that has been mentioned in this thread. There is a woman in town who traded in her 2006 Zephyr for her 2009 Genesis V6. She told me that the ride in her Genesis was so much better than her former Zephyr. After talking to her, I went and drove the Genesis V6 and V8. They were so much superior than the
2007 MKZ, in every way, I decided to trade. My Genesis has it all over the MKZ. Now there is talk about Doug (or someone) having a Milan, which is the same car as the Zephyr and MKZ. Doug, please don't take this the wrong way, but if you traded for a new Milan, then there must have been something very Very VERY wrong with your Genesis, as I've had both, (MKZ & Genesis) and there is just no comparison between the two. (Also tried the MKS but just did not like the car)

Again, don't take this post wrong. Your Genesis must be very different than mine and others.

 

[doug725]

Hi Bob- Interesting to read your comments and perspectives and those of others - it's such an interesting topic. I don't really have any answers or know the actual extent of any issues. I can really only talk with authority about my own experience. However, as I've said there are others who have posted and emailed me with similar and in some cases indentical complaints so I'm definitely not the only one. There are also many reviews that mention the ride quality. The issue keeps coming up in various contexts so something is going on. I find the divergent reviews, for example, very curious -just compare Automobile Magazine vs. the current Edmunds blog. Reading the two makes you think they are talking about two completely different cars. For all we know, maybe they are!

I do think my experience was somewhat extreme and I had bad luck in all respects. The suspeptibilty to wind, for example, was mostly a problem because it was combined with the oscillation I felt on route 355- making it disconcerting for me. But, I did later drive two other 3.8's at dealers and found those cars to be about the same as mine in terms of ride quality. That, combined with my test of the new Sonata and Sante Fe (when I was looking to trade) and the eerily similar Azera suspenion problems some expereinced convinced me that the newer Hyundai suspensions were not a good fit for my commute - with the Genesis by far the worst I experienced.

I don't know much about the Milan though I did get the used 2008 to use for a year or so. I heard it was based on the Mazda 6 platform. I do know the ride is very nice on these roads - one of the best I drove actually. That combined with the fact that they are practically giving away the used ones cinched the deal for me! I can't see using it for more than a year or two, but for now it's OK.

The MKS - now that is a big, heavy car isn't it!

 

[JPW]

Just my two cents here and this is probably all its worth given I don't own a Genesis yet. However, I have been test driving them numerous times and here is what I have witnessed.

Hyundai clearly needs to have better quality control. A most basic step in my mind should be that every Hyundai should be calibrated thoroughly once arriving to the dealer. On more than one occasion at Hyundai dealers I have had Genesis's with low tire pressure, high tire pressure (+10 psi), alignment completely off where the vehicle veers to the right or the left, tire balance issues (the steering wheel actually shook while driving and the salesman said it was because the car had been sitting in the grass for an hour?!), and battery issues where the demo car needed to be "jumped" to start. I have seen all this from probably three test drives at three different local dealers.

Now, once I have gotten to drive one that I feel is calibrated properly I have noticed a few things. Again, all this needs to be taken with a grain of salt since I am not "living" with a Genesis yet.

I find a pretty big difference in handling between the V6 and the V8. Naturally, I know there is a weight difference but I don't know whether the suspension is dramatically different between the two. I find the V6 steering to be much more sensitive whereas the V8 tends to feel a bit more substantial if that makes sense. Between the two I like the feel of the V8 more. It just feels more pronounced and seems like it would have less of a tendency to react to what the road might be doing.

The other item that I thought I would mention after reading much of this dialogue is that I think the reason behind the very different reviews may be based on where the driver is "coming from." Some drivers reviewing this car come in expecting to compare it to other luxury cars. Other drivers reviewing this car come from a more value conscious perspective and it is probably a step up from what they are currently used to, accords and altimas come to mind.

Personally, I am in the second group and after driving an Accord for years once I stepped in to a properly calibrated Genesis I continue to drool over the thought of getting one. The Genesis feels stable and responsive to me while maintaing a very solid feel. I almost think of it as a next generation Accord or the Accord 2.0.

Conversely, I have also driven a number of luxury cars recently. This includes mostly the Lexus LS and ES as well as the Mercedes E class. If you start attempting to compare those luxury cars to the Genesis I think your perspective changes dramatically. Those cars do feel stable to me but do exhibit some body motion as you glide down the road. At low speeds those cars absorb any imperfections in the road whereas with the Genesis you do feel them. The Genesis does give you a good feel for the road at many different speeds. Ultimately, I think if you come from those cars and then drive the Genesis it will feel like a rough ride.

Again, just my two cents. YMMV

 

[doug725]

Hi JPW - great to have your perspective. I do agree about the dealer prep issues. I will still have to respectfully disagree with the notion that the concern is based on what one is coming out of, perspective, or what one is comparing to. I was actually coming out of a 2002 Sante Fe and so had no preconceived notion about any sort of luxury ride. Nor, was I was looking for luxo ride only to be surprised. I drove a demo extensively so I knew it was not a Lexus like ride. What I did not expect was the odd and unpleasent behavior I did experience. I also base it on the 23 other cars I drove on the same route and every other car I've ever driven in my life -none of which exhibited the characteristics of my Genesis. I don't deny that many enjoy the ride in Genesis. I know others do not. I'd never go so far as to say anything is defective per se (except perhaps on my car), but I think they could tune it better so the issue did not come up so much or at least was less off-putting. I think they'd be even more successful!

I know I'll get blasted cause I keep repeating myself - but I wanted to at least respond since you took the time to post.

 

[mk1]

I know I'll get blasted cause I keep repeating myself - but I wanted to at least respond since you took the time to post.

I think you may be pleasantly surprised at the lack of response. We've got it memorized

 

[WAGunner]

i think you may be pleasantly surprised at the lack of response. We've got it memorized

lol!!!
:d

 

[WAGunner]

I think you may be pleasantly surprised at the lack of response. We've got it memorized

LOL!!!
Well that about sums it up.

 

[doug725]

Your unecessary hostility and threatening private emails is getting old as well. Again, no one is forcing you to engage in this discussion or read anything in this thread that I started. Most people grow out of the bully stage in junior high - how old are you anyway?

 

[JPW]

Thanks Doug. Very valid points.

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[Gimli]

Thanks Doug. Very valid points.

They were the first 140 or so times. By now it's just senility setting in.

 

[kaberle]

Your unnecessary hostility and threatening private emails is getting old as well. Again, no one is forcing you to engage in this discussion or read anything in this thread that I started. Most people grow out of the bully stage in junior high - how old are you anyway?

Nice Try Doug........... you invite the hostility with your pre-madona way of looking at things and the fact that you have made it clear to the rest of us that our views don't really matter to you unless we happen to agree with you and you can never be wrong about anything. I'm not saying you didn't have your issues with ride quality.... what I'm saying is get over it..... I have driven many well handling cars with ride quality issues.........many expensive cars with ride quality issues...... but I don't come on here telling you about it.......have you ever driven an exotic and thought it felt supple over harsh bumps?....... As I said before ... its a matter of trade offs....... My Genesis doesn't have the storage space of my Odyssey...... but I don't come on here complaining about it because I understand it....... I know you won't be able to control yourself, but it sure would be nice if you didn't respond to this.....

 

[BigElm]

If you guys don't behave, I'll lock this thread. Doug, you've made your point by starting this thread and your countless posts bashing the issue, there is no need to reiterate yourself just because you find an opening due to someone's post. I don't want to put you in the "Thinking Box" aka "Time-Out".

Let's get along with maturity here, thanks!

 

[kaberle]

If you guys don't behave, I'll lock this thread. Doug, you've made your point by starting this thread and your countless posts bashing the issue, there is no need to reiterate yourself just because you find an opening due to someone's post. I don't want to put you in the "Thinking Box" aka "Time-Out".

Let's get along with maturity here, thanks!

Thank You Big Elm

Now let me tell you about my experience with the car's suspension.I have driven on smooth roads and also on very rough concrete freeways. On smooth roads is where the car shines. It is quiet, it is smooth, the steering accurate although could have a little more road feel. On rough roads is where you can feel that the car has a stiff suspension. Generally cracks and ruts are not a problem as much as hollows in the road where at speed the car hits hard with little give. This is not necessarily a totally bad thing ( I'm not driving my father's Caddy after all) I have experienced no sideways or out of control moments when going through the rough patches at 70 miles per hour. At lower speeds it is less pronounced. The car's safety controls such as ESC and traction Control seem to complete their function well keeping the car as stable as a rear wheel drive can be on snowy roads. For the past 18 years I have driven front wheel drive and all wheel drive vehicles so I will have to get used to driving a RWD again on bad roads. I am confident Good Winter Tires will help. Overall I would say the suspension is about what I would expect. Wonderful on smooth roads and more harsh on roads with hollows in them. To have it any other way would mean sacrificing some of the handling of this car.

 

[USMA84]

Just my two cents here and this is probably all its worth given I don't own a Genesis yet. However, I have been test driving them numerous times and here is what I have witnessed.

Hyundai clearly needs to have better quality control.

This very thought had crossed my mind as well! Given the disparity in the suspension issues that have been noted in this forum, they could very well point to a systemic QC issue. If that is the case, we'll see that manifested in broader issues as the car get more miles and years on them.

Another possibility is that Hyundai is making adjustments to the suspension as the '09s continue to roll off the line. It would be interesting to do some analysis along these lines, if it were possible to correlate the type and number of suspension issues based on the month the car was produced.

 

[Nabber]

This very thought had crossed my mind as well! Given the disparity in the suspension issues that have been noted in this forum, they could very well point to a systemic QC issue. If that is the case, we'll see that manifested in broader issues as the car get more miles and years on them.

I dunno. I've driven some fairly expensive vehicles and Hyundai seems to have their act together pretty damn well with the Genny, especially considering it's a first year car.

As we know, Quality Control (QC) and Research & Development (R&D) are two very different things. The suspension would fall under R&D if a future change makes a systemic problem "better", while QC come into play if the individual vehicles vary such that some have a issue while others do not. I'm not sure a case has been made for QC issues as at least one problem car was driven by another individual and seemed fine.

Much of this is anecdotal at best anyways. Chicken Little need not apply.

 

[USMA84]

I dunno. I've driven some fairly expensive vehicles and Hyundai seems to have their act together pretty damn well with the Genny, especially considering it's a first year car.

As we know, Quality Control (QC) and Research & Development (R&D) are two very different things. The suspension would fall under R&D if a future change makes a systemic problem "better", while QC come into play if the individual vehicles vary such that some have a issue while others do not. I'm not sure a case has been made for QC issues as at least one problem car was driven by another individual and seemed fine.

Much of this is anecdotal at best anyways. Chicken Little need not apply.

I agree with your distinction between QC and R&D. I guess I zeroed-in on QC based on the variability of the comments on the suspension. Case in point, the new article/review from the Chicago Sun-Times (http://searchchicago.suntimes.com/autos/research/ciminillo/1502443,JC033009_hyundai-genesis.article) characterizes the suspension more along the lines of a Town Car or Caddy, without any of the sporty harshness that many have cited on this board. Those are at the polar extremes from each other.

Like so many others, I'm grasping for something to explain that variability. It appears that it is something more than just personal preference.

 

[SCVDon]

Going back to suspension ride issues. I wonder if the OEM springs are of linear compression rate? Perhaps a progressive rate spring could modify the suspension giving soft ride for minor bumps and tighter and tighter as the spring compresses? Or maybe play with some Koni adjustable shocks to tune the front rear rebound rates to reduce pitching?

I doubt if my wife would give up her's and let me play with things.

 

[OneShot]

I read the Chicago Sun-Times article from the link that was posted to it. It made me wonder if Hyundai made some unannounced mid-year changes to the suspension. It would be interesting to see if the part-numbers for the shocks and/or springs changed sometime during the model run. If we could get an early VIN and a like-equipped late VIN, we could contact a Hyundai parts dealer and see if the part numbers were indeed different.

As for doug725, I have voluntarily read this entire thread, and have enjoyed and valued his posts. Pardon my ignorance, but I thought intelligent discourse was the whole idea behind this type of forum. As for Moderation, a poster is going to be given a "time out" because they are rightly impassioned and prolific about a subject? On the "20,000 Mile Update" thread, I was called an idiot, a liar and many other things just for stating an opinion. Where was the moderator/moderation then?

 

[ctrcbob]

Nice Try Doug........... you invite the hostility with your pre-madona way of looking at things and the fact that you have made it clear to the rest of us that our views don't really matter to you unless we happen to agree with you and you can never be wrong about anything. I'm not saying you didn't have your issues with ride quality.... what I'm saying is get over it..... I have driven many well handling cars with ride quality issues.........many expensive cars with ride quality issues...... but I don't come on here telling you about it.......have you ever driven an exotic and thought it felt supple over harsh bumps?....... As I said before ... its a matter of trade offs....... My Genesis doesn't have the storage space of my Odyssey...... but I don't come on here complaining about it because I understand it....... I know you won't be able to control yourself, but it sure would be nice if you didn't respond to this.....

Ditto to the above!