Taking off.

[jr_garcia152]

So I have a 2013 genesis sedan 3.8 v6 base. Question is when I put it on manual mode or "shiftronic" I usually take off on 1st gear. Felt kind of slow taking off. I read that some people take off on 2nd gear to go faster. I tried that, but I felt the same take off maybe a little slower. Help!

 

[daviderle]

So I have a 2013 genesis sedan 3.8 v6 base. Question is when I put it on manual mode or "shiftronic" I usually take off on 1st gear. Felt kind of slow taking off. I read that some people take off on 2nd gear to go faster. I tried that, but I felt the same take off maybe a little slower. Help!

This thread may help in reducing the issue you describe, it is rather long so you can skip to the last page and try the different methods discussed:

http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=13828

At this time, the general consensus is weakening the auxiliary air door magnet is the most convenient and may yield the best results, while keeping the intake stock configuration.

 

[craigt]

Also, there are other threads on here that describe the "sensation" you are feeling. The 8 speed auto is not tuned to "jump off the line". It is programmed for smooth launches and probably what you are experiencing.

I entire removed the air door (as an experiment). It did not change launching at all. But it seemed to improve the ability for the transmission to downshift in certain situations. I ended up removing the magnet from the flapper door so it can stay closed when needed, but open with very little effort.

 

[Bill K]

I found that if I do not "floor it", I get better initial acceleration. I depress the gas pedal less than half way, for less than a second, and only then, jump on the gas.
The sensation is like the feeling you would get in a 1960's car that wasn't getting enough air, and too much gas.
I really do not want to put things on the air door magnet, because I can picture something coming loose and getting sucked into the engine.

 

[RN2X]

Bill, the air filter is between the airflow gate and the intake so there is no chance of anything being sucked into the engine. However, i sound the easiest thing to do was simply remove the magnet.

 

[daviderle]

I found that if I do not "floor it", I get better initial acceleration. I depress the gas pedal less than half way, for less than a second, and only then, jump on the gas.
The sensation is like the feeling you would get in a 1960's car that wasn't getting enough air, and too much gas.
I really do not want to put things on the air door magnet, because I can picture something coming loose and getting sucked into the engine.

Bill, as RN2X mentioned there is little chance of anything getting sucked into the engine.

However as it has been discussed in that long thread, you can also remove the magnet, split it in half (it is actuary two magnets), and reinsert one piece back. This will half the magnet strength and should be sufficient to solve the issue like it has done for many people already (as demonstrated by the poll)

Your call, you can try both methods to see which method works best for you (or remove the door altogether)...

But please, try to vote in that thread once you had time to test any of these methods. They are all roughly have the same effect (allow the engine breath a bit easer at low RPMs), the first two are weakening the magnet forces, while the last one is the closest thing to CAI using the stock intake, however the last method may have other side effects noted by some members, including me.

 

[amartz]

I really do not want to put things on the air door magnet, because I can picture something coming loose and getting sucked into the engine.

Can't happen. Worse case, you have to peel some tape off the air filter surface. The engine is completely protected.

 

[zielritter]

The V6 is simply a dog off the line if you go WOT. I had a 2012 base and tried several things to improve throttle response from a dead stop. There's just no way to fix it short of finding a way to reprogram the TCU and remove the nannying going on.

Even the ESC fuse pull method that helps the V8 guys doesn't improve it. I couldn't get the tires to break loose on the V6 unless it was frigid cold or wet.

I will say that the SprintBooster improved partial throttle responsiveness and overall made the car more enjoyable to drive. It's a steep price for what it does though.

 

[amartz]

The V6 is simply a dog off the line if you go WOT.

I think I could disagree with that.

 

[zielritter]

I think I could disagree with that.

Do you have perspective on the issue?

I think I am qualified to speak on the matter having the experience of owning a 2012 V6 and then a 2012 V8. Go disable (with the fuse pull) the ESC on a V8 and floor it from a full stop - the tires light up. This doesn't happen with the V6 despite it only lacking 40lbs-ft compared to V8 (albeit at a higher RPM).

Let's put it this way then: "The V6 doesn't react off the line like you would expect a 333hp/290lbs-ft vehicle to."

A vehicle with that much power should have no issue spinning the tires from a stand still. The mushy response of the throttle paired with the ECU holding back some torque until around 2000rpms equals underwhelming off the line performance in my mind. The ECU/TCU is really holding back the V6 for some reason and it can't be defeated like with the V8.

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[amartz]

Do you have perspective on the issue?

About three years now with my 2012. I'm not really interested in spinning tires, got over that several decades ago. How's the saying go, If you're spinning, you're not winning? I just love it when, without even a wheel squeak, I smoke some hotshot from a stop light.

 

[zielritter]

About three years now with my 2012. I'm not really interested in spinning tires, got over that several decades ago. How's the saying go, If you're spinning, you're not winning? I just love it when, without even a wheel squeak, I smoke some hotshot from a stop light.

Well, spinning the tires wasn't the point of my post. It just served to illustrate an example of what a car with a certain power rating should be capable of doing. The V6 isn't a slouch, but it isn't performing how it could be off the line because of the transmission programming.

I know what Hyundai did and I don't blame them speaking from a financial perspective. There is a component, or combination of components, in the drive train of these vehicles that made the engineers leery about the long term (think within the warranty period) consequences of allowing drivers to put all of the engine's power immediately to the ground from a stop.

Let's put it this way, a 2001 Elantra with 13X HP and 12Xlb-ft can spin its tires briefly from a stop, then the Genesis with 2.5x's HP should have no issue doing that.

 

[Gunkk]

And the Genesis weighs how much more than an Elantra? The V6 would be a rocket if it shed about 750 lbs.

There's also a matter of the RPMs at which the torque is reached, and the stall of the TQ.

 

[amartz]

Let's put it this way, a 2001 Elantra with 13X HP and 12Xlb-ft can spin its tires briefly from a stop, then the Genesis with 2.5x's HP should have no issue doing that.

This all ignores factors like how wide the driven tires are, how much weight is on the driven tires, what kind of rubber and air pressure in the tires,etc., all of which contribute to what kind of traction we actually get, i.e., do the tires spin or not. I'm not necessarily arguing about the transmission programming, but I've never really felt it's lacking. I'd rather be moving than burning out. But, if you want to elaborate on exactly what you think the Hyundai engineers did.....

 

[zielritter]

There's also a matter of the RPMs at which the torque is reached, and the stall of the TQ.

Which I acknowledged in a previous post.

Stall on the V6 is high enough that there should be enough torque available to spin the tires from a stop.

And the Genesis weighs how much more than an Elantra? The V6 would be a rocket if it shed about 750 lbs.

Agreed. The Elantra is a 3000lb economy car. Quantitatively, 3000->4000lb is a 33% increase in weight, however an increase of 113% (136-290lbft) in torque.

Therefore, I think the numbers show that the increase in weight is more than offset by the more powerful engine in the Genesis. Otherwise, both cars would show similar values in acceleration - not the case.

 

[zielritter]

This all ignores factors like how wide the driven tires are, how much weight is on the driven tires, what kind of rubber and air pressure in the tires,etc., all of which contribute to what kind of traction we actually get, i.e., do the tires spin or not. I'm not necessarily arguing about the transmission programming, but I've never really felt it's lacking. I'd rather be moving than burning out. But, if you want to elaborate on exactly what you think the Hyundai engineers did.....

True, tires do make a difference. The stock 225's on the base Genesis were poor in cold weather I noticed. For a car with this kind of mass they were almost not grippy enough. See my post above about why I still think the Elantra's off the line performance at least partially reveals something going on with the Genesis's torque management programming.

There's an entire thread in the performance section dedicated to the transmission programming and people exploring ways to improve/overcome the lag. People that clearly have an engineering background have noted the engine is held back from a dig. You might think it's not lacking, but that doesn't mean it isn't.

More important is the thread from around 2011 where several members found a way to defeat the traction management system completely by pulling the correct fuse. These people noticed that even with the ESC button pressed, the engine showed a deficit of power if the tires even hinted at losing grip. Pulling the right fuse "unleashed the beast" so to speak and the car would seemingly put all of its torque to the ground from a dig. Go look for yourself. People who couldn't do burnouts before were laying strips of rubber after the fuse pull.

I think this is ample anecdotal evidence that the car is being held back off the line, which is the entire basis for my initial claim - The V6 Genesis (relatively speaking), is a dog off the line. The engineers gimped it purposely to preserve the power train in the long run. It's more noticeable in the V6 than the V8 because of where peak torque comes on.

 

[craigt]

I agree with both zielritter and amartz.

I do believe Hyundai intentionally "gimped" the Genesis off the line. This is their first foray into building their own transmission (an 8 speed at that) and warranty it for 10 years / 100,000 miles. It doesn't make sense for them to program the Genesis into a hotrod / stop light racer.

I also like the way the Genesis accelerates. It feels more Mercedes than BMW (I test drove both before deciding on the Genesis). Almost like an aircraft accelerating. For me, and what I want from the car, that is perfect. A smooth hauler that the family can enjoy comfortably without a lot of head bobbing.

 

[amartz]

I think this is ample anecdotal evidence that the car is being held back off the line, which is the entire basis for my initial claim - The V6 Genesis (relatively speaking), is a dog off the line. The engineers gimped it purposely to preserve the power train in the long run. It's more noticeable in the V6 than the V8 because of where peak torque comes on.

You anecdotal evidence seems to be based around mods to the V8 that, unfortunately, us V6 owners can't do. So I'm not sure I see how it supports your claim that the V6 is a dog because it's being held back by the ESC. If we could do the same for the V6, I might tend to give that more credence. The way I'm looking at it, the V6 isn't much slower 0-60 than the V8, so I'm pretty happy with it.

 

[amartz]

I agree with both zielritter and amartz.

I also like the way the Genesis accelerates. It feels more Mercedes than BMW (I test drove both before deciding on the Genesis). Almost like an aircraft accelerating. For me, and what I want from the car, that is perfect. A smooth hauler that the family can enjoy comfortably without a lot of head bobbing.

I'll admire the large cloud of tire smoke the zielritter is making, as I watch him in my rear-view mirror getting rapidly smaller!

 

[zielritter]

I'll admire the large cloud of tire smoke the zielritter is making, as I watch him in my rear-view mirror getting rapidly smaller!

Ha, now you're just trolling me. No way in hell you get a glimpse of me in your rear view unless I'm driving the other direction.