The time has come...best wishes to all!

[ck2118]

I'm shocked that this is still an issue...

I can't speak for everyone but I come on sites like these for information... not to be told by other members what is right and what is wrong. With that said, I'll listen to both sides of a debate and formulate my own opinion based on the facts presented. If you don't agree with me... that's fine... we can agree to disagree.

Some members seem to be set on arguing their point to no end... (One example... and it may not be a good one... is the color of one's fog lights. I can see the safety benefits of having yellow lights. Regardless, I may still choose to go with white ones because IMO, they look better. If that's the case, I don't need to see post after post after post about why this is wrong and why yellow is the way to go. State your stance, tell me why, and be done with it. Again, this may not be a good example.)

In regards to information... PING has contributed a ton of info that i found to be very interesting... and much of it has brought me back to this site on a regular basis. I hope he stays and that we can all put this issue to rest.

PING... stick around... your contributions are greatly appreciated and we would all lose out if you left.

Folks... There is nothing more ridiculous than arguing on the internet.

 

[sarge]

Sarge, what are you trying to accomplish? I can only think of 2 possibilities:

There are other possibilities.

1.) You want him gone (seems like a knee-jerk emotional response to me)

I don't want anything regarding this poster. It's not my place to want anything from him. He stays or he goes, and my enjoyment of this forum will not be affected either way.

2.) You want him to stay but behave (Sal just said he's going to talk to him...so why do you keep beating the dead horse?)

Again, stay or go, it's all the same to me. My opinions about the proper behavior for a moderator could not be less important on this forum. I offered an opinion, the site owner answered. This isn't a public accomodation - it's private property. I would no more insist anything of the site owner here than I would if I were a guest in his house.

As for what I'm try to accomplish, best to just lay it out as straight as I can, and ask that you accept it exactly as I present it:

The moderator in question has recently demonstrated a posting style that indicates he isn't particularly well suited to being a moderator. That's just an opinion, of course - but it is correct.

The site owner has said (to paraphrase, of course) "Look, this is my forum. It's a hobby, and I am generally happy with the way it runs. Thanks for the opinion, but I'm experienced enough at this to not really need it. I hope you enjoy your time here, but if you don't maybe you should pick somewhere else to hang out. Certainly, I don't intened to change the forum to suit your tastes".

I am perfectly okay with all of that. If the moderator decides that he is immune to the rules that regular members must follow, then the moderator has the authority to act almost with impunity. It doesn't make the slightest difference whether or not I'm okay with that, so long as the site owner is okay with it.

My goal? to get a succinct answer to this question:

Is the moderator off limits? If he posts something that any other member might reasonably expect a critical response to, does the moderator get a pass because he is a moderator? I enjoy this forum, and knowing the answer to that question will allow me to post here without running afoul of either the rules or the community norm.

 

[PINGGOLF]

The moderator in question has recently demonstrated a posting style that indicates he isn't particularly well suited to being a moderator. That's just an opinion, of course - but it is correct.

I am perfectly okay with all of that. If the moderator decides that he is immune to the rules that regular members must follow, then the moderator has the authority to act almost with impunity. It doesn't make the slightest difference whether or not I'm okay with that, so long as the site owner is okay with it.

My goal? to get a succinct answer to this question:

Is the moderator off limits. If he posts something that any other member might reasonably expect a critical response to, does the moderator get a pass because he is a moderator? I enjoy this forum, and knowing the answer to that question will allow me to post here without running afoul of either the rules or the community norm.

First and foremost, thanks to all of you who wish for me to stick around! Makes me feel good and helps me to see that what I do here is a good thing to most.

I am an emotional guy...I am not a drill Sargent. I cry at sappy movies and get lumps in my throat over silly things. I see things in life as blessings and the sheer joy of being alive is overwhelming at times. I look at my 17 month old daughter as her imagination runs wild and wonder how on earth could I ever function without her and my wife in my life. I am a HAPPY guy. One who tries to see the beauty in everything...and yes, my Genny is beautiful! However, others do not see things as I do. We all have our moments where we get our panties in a wad and do and say things that we later regret. NO ONE is immune to that.

Here recently, I have doubted that. I have questioned myself with the famous "is it me" comment and thought...you know what...maybe it is me. Maybe I am crossing the line. So then I went back last night and read just about every single post I have ever made here. I found 4 that I wished I never posted. 4. For those four posts...forgive me.

With that being said...Sarge, in the blanks below....tell me EXACTLY what I have done wrong or that does not suit YOUR thoughts of how a moderator should portray himself/herself. Tell me what "rules" I have broken and what you think I am "immune" to? Respectfully please! There are times where I have made hasty decisions and to my rescue, Sal has cleaned it up. Am I the best person for the job...probably not, but I do have a passion for it and with that I learn from my mistakes...rather quickly. Maybe I should become like you Sarge and and just say it like it is. Be blunt with people and say things in ways that really turn up the fire even though my intent was not to do that...but wait...I don't go through life like that, that is not ME or how I operate or treat others. I try to think of others first (not saying that you don't) in life. Respectfully Sir, please give me your honest opinion in the blank below.

___________________________________________________________

As taken from my initial post and as a refresher for you:

For what its worth and for those who question my moderation skills...I have NEVER deleted a post or banned an individual out of spite or harsh feelings for the individual. The ONLY posts ever deleted were those who were reported (and I might add, keep the fire burning), a spammer, or a simple mistake such as a double post. The ONLY people I have ever banned are those who post spam.

This still holds true...and whether or not you may believe it, your posts in this thread have already been reported. But since I started this thread, own this thread and am, in reality, the ONLY thing being discussed in this thread, I wish to keep your posts alive.

I am not "off limits" to anything. I do this job FOR FUN!!! Most of the time I have a BLAST and look forward to logging in to see whats new! But at other times I log on with grit in my teeth because of the "reported posts" emails that I get while eating dinner with my family or in church on Sunday morning. Those are the days when I know someone is flaming and I have a mess to clean up...which usually makes ME OUT TO LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUY in somebodies eyes. However, I have to remember...I know none of you. The chances of me seeing any of you besides Jonah, are slim to none. So why worry...well, I wont from here on.

Sal, I welcome our discussion. Yes, I have a "hit list" and I will tell you exactly who they are. I will also tell you that I have been really really really easy on these members and have NEVER given out an infraction on these individuals. But from this point forward, the infraction button will be fully operational. I guess Sarge is right, I have been abusing my powers as a mod by NOT utilizing the tools that are available to me. Am I going to fly off the deep end and just ban everybody...uh, no. Im too easy...unless you post spam. Than the war is on! HA!

So, while awaiting Sarge's reply and a discussion with Sal, I will hold off with my moderation until the time is right and all air has been cleared.

I love this site, I love my car, and I love information! I love the interaction with other members who share the same enthusiasm as I!

For those who see me as immature, under-educated and abusive...I'm sorry I do not fulfill your requirements of a "Dream Team Moderator!" I will try harder though!

Until next post, have an awesome day!

 

[sarge]

With that being said...Sarge, in the blanks below....tell me EXACTLY what I have done wrong or that does not suit YOUR thoughts of how a moderator should portray himself/herself.

It's not for me to tell you anything. The site owner has spoken on the issue. I believe this post is an emotional appeal for sympathy from other posters, and that nothing I have to say would influence you in the least. Again, I'm fine with that.

Tell me what "rules" I have broken and what you think I am "immune" to? Respectfully please!

The request for respect is unnecessary. I never post disrepectfully, and I never get upset over the contents of an internet forum.

There are times where I have made hasty decisions and to my rescue, Sal has cleaned it up. Am I the best person for the job...probably not, but I do have a passion for it and with that I learn from my mistakes...rather quickly.

Posters make mistakes often. In my experience, moderators then come along and dispasionately correct the mistakes.

Maybe I should become like you Sarge and and just say it like it is. Be blunt with people and say things in ways that really turn up the fire even though my intent was not to do that...but wait...I don't go through life like that, that is not ME or how I operate or treat others. I try to think of others first (not saying that you don't) in life. Respectfully Sir, please give me your honest opinion in the blank below.

My posts have been perfectly honest from the begining. I've provided my opinion, and allowed that my opinion carries no more weight than any other posters. Certainly, my opinion is meaningless once the site owner has weighed in.

___________________________________________________________

As taken from my initial post and as a refresher for you:

For what its worth and for those who question my moderation skills...I have NEVER deleted a post or banned an individual out of spite or harsh feelings for the individual. The ONLY posts ever deleted were those who were reported (and I might add, keep the fire burning), a spammer, or a simple mistake such as a double post. The ONLY people I have ever banned are those who post spam.

I don't require a refresher. It is the nature of these forums that posts remain extant until deleted. Subsequent to the quoted text above, you declared an intention to deal with those that had the nerve to cross you, should you remain as a moderator.

This still holds true...and whether or not you may believe it, your posts in this thread have already been reported. But since I started this thread, own this thread and am, in reality, the ONLY thing being discussed in this thread, I wish to keep your posts alive.

Are you under the impression that a post being reported is at all indicative that the post is contrary to the site rules? It is not, of course. No post of mine contains a persoanl attack, nor does a single post of mine contain a rules violation. Anyone can report a post. If any of mine have been reported, it was reported for having upset a user, not for actually having broken a rule.

That is the point at which a proficient moderator recognizes that the reported post is fine, and lets it stand. Are you up to that task?

I guess Sarge is right, I have been abusing my powers as a mod by NOT utilizing the tools that are available to me. Am I going to fly off the deep end and just ban everybody...uh, no. Im too easy...unless you post spam. Than the war is on! HA!

Does it not bother you that you attribute to me remarks that I have never made?

So, while awaiting Sarge's reply and a discussion with Sal, I will hold off with my moderation until the time is right and all air has been cleared.

I have re-read the posts as well. There is nothing to moderate. None are personal attacks. I suspect that you are confusing an attack on a post with an attack on the poster. The distinction is meaningful.

So... you can continue to personalize this discussion or you can learn to accept the criticism that goes with being a moderator. That's a choice, and as is so often the case, you own your actions.

 

[PINGGOLF]

First, thanks for your reply!

It's not for me to tell you anything. The site owner has spoken on the issue. I believe this post is an emotional appeal for sympathy from other posters, and that nothing I have to say would influence you in the least. Again, I'm fine with that.

I asked a question which warranted your input. I don't have a reason to play the "sympathy card" I am fully aware of my actions and am willing to reap the comments.

The request for respect is unnecessary. I never post disrepectfully, and I never get upset over the contents of an internet forum.

I disagree with this statement because you keep coming back. If you were not somewhat emotionally tied to this thread...you would have never said much after your first post.

Posters make mistakes often. In my experience, moderators then come along and dispasionately correct the mistakes.

True...we're all human and sometimes most humans like to take the path of least resistance...which is to delete the post and then make a post requesting that we stay on topic or be nice.

My posts have been perfectly honest from the begining. I've provided my opinion, and allowed that my opinion carries no more weight than any other posters. Certainly, my opinion is meaningless once the site owner has weighed in.

Brutally honest I might add...but thats how you roll

I don't require a refresher. It is the nature of these forums that posts remain extant until deleted. Subsequent to the quoted text above, you declared an intention to deal with those that had the nerve to cross you, should you remain as a moderator.

NEVER did I say that. I have a list of members who are instigators. We all know who they are. Ones who start fires and ruin great threads. To some extent their posts are mostly legit and are fine but when emotion gets involved their post turns into personal attacks rather seamlessly. For example: Flyboys post about him disagreeing with my driving is fine. But when he compared me to his immature 16 year old daughter...well, thats a personal attack. Which will require an infraction per forum rules. I simply stated, that instead of sending a little "peace note," that from this point on, an infraction will be given. Simple as that. I have been lax on that and its my fault. I apologize to the other members for not holding up my end of the deal.

"Having the nerve to cross me"...I'm not that kind of guy.

Are you under the impression that a post being reported is at all indicative that the post is contrary to the site rules? It is not, of course. No post of mine contains a personal attack, nor does a single post of mine contain a rules violation. Anyone can report a post. If any of mine have been reported, it was reported for having upset a user, not for actually having broken a rule.

Absolutely not, if the post is reported, we review it. If it doesn't break the rules it stays...contrary to popular belief. For your last sentence, you are correct!

That is the point at which a proficient moderator recognizes that the reported post is fine, and lets it stand. Are you up to that task?

I think I have done a fairly good job.

Does it not bother you that you attribute to me remarks that I have never made?

I disagree, you may have not said it directly but you did say: Stop using a veiled threat to delete posts or ban members simply because they disagree with you. That is an extrordinarily immature style for a moderator. Forum moderators don't get to have personal opinions when acting as a moderator - their only purpose is to insure that the forum is running in accordance with the rules and in keeping with the best interests of the owner.

Which is basically the same as "abusing my powers."

I do not get paid enough to protect the best interest of my boss. Sorry Sal! I'm here to keep things organized, take out the trash (spammers) and voice my opinions...because I am an enthusiast!

So... you can continue to personalize this discussion or you can learn to accept the criticism that goes with being a moderator. That's a choice, and as is so often the case, you own your actions.

This discussion is personalized from the get go. I wanted it to be that way. I have solicited yours...and everybody opinions and criticism. I have accepted it and have kept an open mind and believe it or not...learned a few things! I have always believed that you reap what you sow and this forum is no different than any aspect of life.

Sarge, I hold nothing against you. We are two different people with different walks of life. Actually more like apples to elephants...HA...but with that being said, I hope you see that I am trying to be respectful as well. Its never my wish make someone feel bad even when I disagree on their approach of things. If I have, I need to work on my forum etiquette.

Thanks again for your response as I asked for it. I will broaden my shoulders and toughen up a bit...even though I don't really act that way...

 

[sarge]

First, thanks for your reply!



I asked a question which warranted your input. I don't have a reason to play the "sympathy card" I am fully aware of my actions and am willing to reap the comments.


I disagree with this statement because you keep coming back. If you were not somewhat emotionally tied to this thread...you would have never said much after your first post.

True...we're all human and sometimes most humans like to take the path of least resistance...which is to delete the post and then make a post requesting that we stay on topic or be nice.


Brutally honest I might add...but thats how you roll


NEVER did I say that. I have a list of members who are instigators. We all know who they are. Ones who start fires and ruin great threads. To some extent their posts are mostly legit and are fine but when emotion gets involved their post turns into personal attacks rather seamlessly. For example: Flyboys post about him disagreeing with my driving is fine. But when he compared me to his immature 16 year old daughter...well, thats a personal attack. Which will require an infraction per forum rules. I simply stated, that instead of sending a little "peace note," that from this point on, an infraction will be given. Simple as that. I have been lax on that and its my fault. I apologize to the other members for not holding up my end of the deal.

"Having the nerve to cross me"...I'm not that kind of guy.



Absolutely not, if the post is reported, we review it. If it doesn't break the rules it stays...contrary to popular belief. For your last sentence, you are correct!

I think I have done a fairly good job.


I disagree, you may have not said it directly but you did say: Stop using a veiled threat to delete posts or ban members simply because they disagree with you. That is an extrordinarily immature style for a moderator. Forum moderators don't get to have personal opinions when acting as a moderator - their only purpose is to insure that the forum is running in accordance with the rules and in keeping with the best interests of the owner.

Which is basically the same as "abusing my powers."

I do not get paid enough to protect the best interest of my boss. Sorry Sal! I'm here to keep things organized, take out the trash (spammers) and voice my opinions...because I am an enthusiast!



This discussion is personalized from the get go. I wanted it to be that way. I have solicited yours...and everybody opinions and criticism. I have accepted it and have kept an open mind and believe it or not...learned a few things! I have always believed that you reap what you sow and this forum is no different than any aspect of life.

Sarge, I hold nothing against you. We are two different people with different walks of life. Actually more like apples to elephants...HA...but with that being said, I hope you see that I am trying to be respectful as well. Its never my wish make someone feel bad even when I disagree on their approach of things. If I have, I need to work on my forum etiquette.

Thanks again for your response as I asked for it. I will broaden my shoulders and toughen up a bit...even though I don't really act that way...

So......

The site owner has spoken and the moderator has spoken. As the discussion is (mostly) about the forum and how the owner would wish it administered, I can't imagine that I have anything productive to add. I think I'll head back upstairs to the topic specific fora and decide what appearance modifications I might make to my brand new 2011 Genesis 4.6

 

[Sal Collaziano]

One of the problems we have here is our team. We don't have one. We just have Ping and myself. We need a team to discuss member's actions and ask questions in a private forum. I don't think it's in the best interests of the community for me to be the bottom-line on everything that happens here. Yes, technically I am the boss - but I prefer to have a team to discuss things and make decisions.

When you have one person (me) telling "the" moderator what's right and wrong, it could very easily be taken as "just do it because that's the way I want it". That's not the way I operate my forum communities. The rest of my busy sites have several moderators who can all discuss/add input on situations. I'd much rather have 5 or 6 people that I can rely on state their feelings on things like rules and happenings.

I think PingGolf mentioned that he'd be issuing infractions more often. That's good. As long as posts are not being deleted for personal reasons, than I don't think we have any issues. Even I do not delete posts that are emotionally aimed at myself.

While I advise our members to think twice before posting links to YouTube videos containing illegal activity, I'm not overly concerned with it unless YouTube decides it's not in their own best interests to forbid this type of material. If anyone has anything to worry about in regards to legal action, it's Google (who owns YouTube).

Otherwise, we do not setup illegal street races here at GenesisOwners.com.. And we do not condone street racing.

 

[robthoke]

Ping - I've thoroughly enjoyed your clips. Your video on the Magnaflow exhaust convinced me to get one. Your races with other cars were entertaining. Who cares if they are right or wrong. I'm not in the morality business and do not believe that morality is an issue that can or should be legislated. If people are offended by street racing, then don't watch the clip. I don't drive the speed limit and there are time that I want to put the pedal to the metal. When I'm in my wife's car, people are always wanting to race me. I don't because I'm pretty sure I'll beat them and at my age my reflexes are not as quick as they used to be.

I can't tell you to go or stay. I'll just say that I've enjoyed your posts. Everyone needs to vent. Just don't take any of it as personal - expecially if you don't know them. And don't respond to them. That just results in stuff like this.