Thinking about a 5.0 Ultimate

[kg4pto]

My 5.0 r-spec is getting a bit long in the tooth (almost 100k), and I'm thinking about options to replace it.

I test-drove a couple of 2015 5.0 Ultimates with the CDC shocks, and I was shocked at how much better my R-spec (mods in sig) seemed to handle. Has anyone else noticed this going from the R-Spec to a 2015 5.0? Do rigid collars on a 5.0 help with handling?

I took it on several twisty roads, and the entire time it felt like it was saying "what in the world are you doing to me?"

I like the way the car "feels" to drive (location of controls, driving position, etc), the much more refined transmission, the HUD, and many other things, but I'm not sure I could get past the handling.

Any ideas?

 

[carguy75]

Could be the tires. I have not driven an 2013 5.0, but going from auto magazines the 2012 models handles better when both models are using stock tires. .87g for the 2012 model on sticky Bridgstone Pole Position summer tires, and .86g for the 2015 model with crappy A/S Hankooks tires.

My 2015 5.0 has Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ tires and handle like it on rails. Going by your signature, you have some great handling BFG tires installed which would be better that most OEM tires on a stock 2015 5.0.

The chassis collars also stiffen your ride as well. The 2015 chassis is stiffer than the stock 2013 chassis , but is not going to be boy racer stiff. It is a luxury car first and foremost, so comfort is a must.

Did you test drive the 2015 models in sport mode? The adaptable shocks handle well, but they are not going to get rattle your teeth stiff.

Here is C&D tests of the 2012 5.0 model and the 2015 5.0 model.

Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0 Sedan Test &ampndash; Review &ampndash; Car and Driver
2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 Test | Review | Car and Driver

 

[kg4pto]

I saw the magazine articles you mentioned, and that is what shocked me! I think this car had POS Hankook tires on it, which are not ideal tires at all. I also test drove another one with the same tires you have, and it didn't feel much different truthfully. I think the other thing which may be throwing me off is the steering weight (or lack thereof) on the 2015.

I took that 2015 on some pretty curvy roads, and the whole time, I could feel it telling me "what are you doing to me?!" Yes, I had it in sport mode the entire time.

My sig is a bit outdated. I'm now running the Michelin AS 3+ on my r-spec as well. The BFGs just wear too quickly and are too noisy.

I took that 2015 on some pretty curvy roads, and the whole time, I could feel it telling me "what are you doing to me?!"

For some reason, my R-Spec feels a lot more like a sports-sedan. It doesn't beat you to death, but you can tell it means business. I'm not interested in something really stiff. My dad has a Cadillac CTS-V, and that car does a number on your backside on rough pavement. Yes it handles well, but you pay a big price for it in ride quality!

 

[carguy75]

I saw the magazine articles you mentioned, and that is what shocked me! I think this car had POS Hankook tires on it, which are not ideal tires at all. I also test drove another one with the same tires you have, and it didn't feel much different truthfully. I think the other thing which may be throwing me off is the steering weight (or lack thereof) on the 2015.

I took that 2015 on some pretty curvy roads, and the whole time, I could feel it telling me "what are you doing to me?!" Yes, I had it in sport mode the entire time.

My sig is a bit outdated. I'm now running the Michelin AS 3+ on my r-spec as well. The BFGs just wear too quickly and are too noisy.

I took that 2015 on some pretty curvy roads, and the whole time, I could feel it telling me "what are you doing to me?!"

For some reason, my R-Spec feels a lot more like a sports-sedan. It doesn't beat you to death, but you can tell it means business. I'm not interested in something really stiff. My dad has a Cadillac CTS-V, and that car does a number on your backside on rough pavement. Yes it handles well, but you pay a big price for it in ride quality!

So maybe you should just keep your 2013 model if you feel the handling is not as great on the 2015 model.

My 2015 5.0 is very sticky on the road and handles perfectly. I drive on curvy roads nearly everyday on my commute. The car handles and rides perfectly to me, however I have never driven a lighter 2013 5.0 model which may be a better handling car overall.

However, I have test driven some pretty good handling cars before buying my current 2015 5.0 and my 2015 5.0 handles just as good as a 2017 Camaro with the RS package on a test road i used which is good enough for me for such a nice luxury car.

Maybe the 2015 with A/S+ tires you tested had worn shocks or something. However, the pre-2015 5.0 models does seem a bit more raw and a little unrefined compare to the 2015 and newer models which are heavier and more polished.

The same could be said of older sporty BMW models compared to the newer plush BMW models which are not as loved by driving enthusiast.

I love the 2015 handling as is, and would take this model over the last generation overall even if the car lost some of its handling prowess and raw feel due to having more refinement. I have only driven a 2014 V6 Gen model which was no where as good the 2015 5.0, but it does not handle like a 5.0 spec I assume.

 

[kg4pto]

Interesting that you mentioned the Camaro. I traded my 2010 Camaro SS (different platform than the 2017 you drove...the 2017 was probably better because it is lighter), for my 2013 R-Spec. The tire and rigid collars upgrade (and a good 4-wheel alignment), brought the r-spec right up to the level that my Camaro was in my opinion. I was also taking a serious look at the Chevrolet SS, but couldn't justify the extra $$$, lower fuel economy, higher insurance rates, etc. Gotta pay to play.

I'm going to revisit it in a few months and see if I can find a 2015 Ultimate 5.0 with a good set of tires on it and see what it will do. I wasn't too keen on the r-spec until I did the aforementioned mods.

 

[carguy75]

Interesting that you mentioned the Camaro. I traded my 2010 Camaro SS (different platform than the 2017 you drove...the 2017 was probably better because it is lighter), for my 2013 R-Spec. The tire and rigid collars upgrade (and a good 4-wheel alignment), brought the r-spec right up to the level that my Camaro was in my opinion. I was also taking a serious look at the Chevrolet SS, but couldn't justify the extra $$$, lower fuel economy, higher insurance rates, etc. Gotta pay to play.

I'm going to revisit it in a few months and see if I can find a 2015 Ultimate 5.0 with a good set of tires on it and see what it will do. I wasn't too keen on the r-spec until I did the aforementioned mods.

In all honesty your mods may have increased the 2013 5.0 chassis stiffness well beyond the 2015 chassis stiffness which may resist flexing around corners better than the 2015, hence better overall handling.

In stock form the 2015 chassis is suppose to be stiffer than your 2013 chassis, but only by about 30% or so. The chassis collars you use could increase the chassis rigidness by the same amount plus you will have the advantage of the 2013 lighter weight which can only help handling even more to the point that it out perform the newer chassis in stock form.

 

[kg4pto]

In all honesty your mods may have increased the 2013 5.0 chassis stiffness well beyond the 2015 chassis stiffness which may resist flexing around corners better than the 2015, hence better overall handling.

In stock form the 2015 chassis is suppose to be stiffer than your 2013 chassis, but only by about 30% or so. The chassis collars you use could increase the chassis rigidness by the same amount plus you will have the advantage of the 2013 lighter weight which can only help handling even more to the point that it out perform the newer chassis in stock form.

That is what I was wondering myself. I would be interested to see how a 2015+ 5.0 would handle with similar mods.

I notice you are from Atlanta also. It's amazing to me how terrible the roads are here!

 

[1FstYota]

The difference is the added weight, 2012 is est at 4,250lbs while the 2015 is est at 4,541 lbs. Can't get away from the weight, right off the bat when I test drove the 2015 you can feel it.

Plus with the V8 more of that weight is over the front so yea, don't expect it to handle well, even with good tires it will understeer like no ones business.

 

[carguy75]

That is what I was wondering myself. I would be interested to see how a 2015+ 5.0 would handle with similar mods.

I notice you are from Atlanta also. It's amazing to me how terrible the roads are here!

Man ,you are right about the roads here. Hence, why I do not like a very stiff car for a daily driver.

However, I driven on worst roads like in New York when I visit my family there.

Depending on the design, chassis collars should work well on the 2015+ models as well to reduce the sub-frame from shifting and tighten up the handling.

I always was interested in sub-frame collars, but never installed them on a car. I may install some on my 2015 model just to see if they make it handle even better than it does now.

 

[celltech]

The worst handling aspect of my 2015 non-ultimate 5.0, besides the weight, is the rear end. You can feel it dancing around when getting aggressive. It also has issues putting all the power down if you are hammering the throttle on lumpy surfaces.

I have the rigid collars installed and they don't make it ride any firmer. What they did is make the suspension settle down quicker over sharp hits. You feel just one "whack" and not a series of subsiding shocks. They also totally removed the slight amount of on center slop in the steering.

Now if they could figure out a way to remove 600+ pounds from this thing...

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[kg4pto]

That's what I was thinking as well. The R-Spec has its fair share of rear-end drama on bumpy roads, but I owned 2 GM f-bodies (firebirds) with live axle suspension that will dance all over the place on a rough road, so I'm used to it and know how to manage it.

@carguy75, I don't think the company I got my collars from (Uniq Performance) makes them for the DH models like you have. There's another company that does though. Make sure to tell them you have a 2015+ model so they don't send you the parts for the BH platform.

I can tell you the rigid collars along with the BFG and later Michelin tires COMPLETELY transformed my R-Spec into a true pleasure to drive. I'd put her right on par with a BMW 550i in terms of handling and driving feel. Is it a Chevy SS or a Cadillac CTS-V? No...and that's probably a good thing. Those wonderful Atlanta roads (especially I-285, 10th St, and Northside Drive) beat me to death in both of my Firebirds, and the Camaro SS I had before the Genny wasn't much better.

The best thing about these cars is that no one else makes anything in its class, unless you want to pay upwards of 40k for even a used BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.

 

[carguy75]

The worst handling aspect of my 2015 non-ultimate 5.0, besides the weight, is the rear end. You can feel it dancing around when getting aggressive. It also has issues putting all the power down if you are hammering the throttle on lumpy surfaces.

I have the rigid collars installed and they don't make it ride any firmer. What they did is make the suspension settle down quicker over sharp hits. You feel just one "whack" and not a series of subsiding shocks. They also totally removed the slight amount of on center slop in the steering.

Now if they could figure out a way to remove 600+ pounds from this thing...

Where did you get your set for the 2015 models? I want to buy a set.

 

[carguy75]

That's what I was thinking as well. The R-Spec has its fair share of rear-end drama on bumpy roads, but I owned 2 GM f-bodies (firebirds) with live axle suspension that will dance all over the place on a rough road, so I'm used to it and know how to manage it.

@carguy75, I don't think the company I got my collars from (Uniq Performance) makes them for the DH models like you have. There's another company that does though. Make sure to tell them you have a 2015+ model so they don't send you the parts for the BH platform.

I can tell you the rigid collars along with the BFG and later Michelin tires COMPLETELY transformed my R-Spec into a true pleasure to drive. I'd put her right on par with a BMW 550i in terms of handling and driving feel. Is it a Chevy SS or a Cadillac CTS-V? No...and that's probably a good thing. Those wonderful Atlanta roads (especially I-285, 10th St, and Northside Drive) beat me to death in both of my Firebirds, and the Camaro SS I had before the Genny wasn't much better.

The best thing about these cars is that no one else makes anything in its class, unless you want to pay upwards of 40k for even a used BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.

Believe it or not there is problems with having too stiff of a chassis, loss of control is one major concern on a street car.

However, I will still try a set of collars on my front end to increase turn-in control but I may not install the rear collars due to losing rear wheel traction on bumps. A little give is not bad in terms of control.

I agree, the Genesis 5.0 is a very good sub-$100k performance luxury sedan. Yes, there are better performing luxury models; but most costs as much as a house new(over $100k) and are very unreliable on top of that when used.

 

[kg4pto]

That's very true, carguy75.

I wouldn't shy away from putting the rear collars on. If anything, they will improve traction on the rear by keeping the tires planted on curves. At least on the R-Spec. I notice my ESC kicking in a lot less when I punch it on a hard turn because it doesn't try to lift the outside wheel. The DH platform might already be stiff enough back there though especially in sport mode. I know the BH platform definitely is not.

The r-spec uses ZF SACHS passive dampers which tighten up automatically when required, but I suspect that's just a marketing gimmick.