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To GrandPrix08

jwaters943

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Note from Administrator: I moved these posts out of Musher's thread and did some editing to make everything fit.. Let's keep his discussion focused on him. :)

Thank you!


Grand Prix,

No offense, but you've made your opinions on Korean cars pretty clear in numerous discussions.

Why not start a thread about it instead of raining on a new Genesis' owners parade?

Just a thought. :)
 
Re: I've joined the club...

GrandPrix,
I think you are very analytical and look forward to your evaluation of the Genesis interior. IMHO it compares favorably with German cars I have been in, and is better than your typical American cabin.
I look at the Genesis with a blank slate having no prior opinion of any Hyundai products before this car. Is some of your opinion of Genesis based on prior experience as a Korean? I wish Ford and GM made a car this good...
 
Re: I've joined the club...

Grand Prix,

No offense, but you've made your opinions on Korean cars pretty clear in numerous discussions.

Why not start a thread about it instead of raining on a new Genesis' owners parade?

Just a thought. :)

GrandPrix,
I think you are very analytical and look forward to your evaluation of the Genesis interior. IMHO it compares favorably with German cars I have been in, and is better than your typical American cabin.
I look at the Genesis with a blank slate having no prior opinion of any Hyundai products before this car. Is some of your opinion of Genesis based on prior experience as a Korean? I wish Ford and GM made a car this good...

jwaters943,
I have to agree with you as GrandPrix 08 seems to be following the Genesis at a distance and states that he hopes that it makes it but at the same time throws some jabs at it.
The Genesis has been in our area since the last week of June. GrandPrix 08 why haven't you drove the car yet if you seem at all interested? I don't think you have the same excitement level as the rest of us.
Many have traveled long distance to test drive the car. If your trully interested why don't you drive the car? Before putting it down all the time why not at least give it a chance and drive it before making your quite often negetive comments please.


Simonwpb,
Grandprix08 has already told me he prefers american cars with big round gauges and the plastic interior look. Although I don't understand how that determine's whether a car is a good car or a bad car in his mind. Quite honestly I was confused by that statement.

It would seem that good quality, good reliability, good reviews and customer satisfaction and of course a good bang for the buck doesn't factor into his judgement.

Like I said earlier however everyone is different...........guess that is what makes the world go round although with a wobble at times.
 
Re: I've joined the club...

Let me just add to the fact that, I absolutely hate imports, whether it be Japanese or Korean, or Australian for that matter. I am the kinda guy who stay loyal to the North American designed and built cars no matter if they are the craps. Part of the reason that I hate Pontiac these days since they are pretty much wiping out the true DOMESTICS and rather sells the imports re-badged as Pontiac, that is the reason that I got the last breed North American, Grand Prix that I have been wanting for such a long time before these clowns killed it. I absolutely hate what GM is doing these days, and it furiates me when I heard that the G6, one of the VERY FEW, AMERICAN made car remaining in the Pontiac line up, will be replaced with another Australian Holden junk soon.

I haven't driven the Genesis for one reason. Simply didn't have time. I had to go to the appointment to meet the client few weeks ago, and I got out a bit early and managed to go down to the nearest dealer, and was going to get a brochure(since I kinda collect them), I DID want to test out the seats and everything, but I didn't want to get in trouble by being late to the appointment, and even with the help with the GPS, it took me a good 35-40 Minutes just to get there that didn't really help me to make the most of my trip. My first impression is what I wrote on my other thread. I just don't like the Asian style gauges housing designs that kinda look like an Arcade game cabinet that is hollow with the small viewing area with small letterings(I can't really explain it). Even though, for the Genesis, they kinda ripped-off Mercedes S-class(which I like) for it, but it still have the area that I hate, the gauge housing design itself. I got so used to, and a big fan of, the unique, sometimes downright outrageous designs that Pontiac use on their cars, such as 99 Grand Am that I used to drive, even the 92 Sunbird that was far more outrageous than its cousin, the plain-jane Cavalier. I just don't like the plain looking Chevy garbages that are too plain inside and out, nor anything in the leagues of the previous generation Camrys with the steering wheel design that screams 'IMPORT' which I find the same with the Holden G8, which is just not my style. I am more into the German style steering wheels, or my current Grand Prix's wheels that has a look of a boy-racer style with a small, aluminum look-alike panel with radio controls on it. Also, I just don't like Asian imports seats design. They are just too small on the bottom and feels cheaper. I've driven the Camry few years ago, and can't help but wonderring why that car was so popular. It didn't drive the way I wanted, and the whole car felt too light for my taste, same thing goes to the Sonata 4cyl I've driven about an year before that, it just felt like crap. I also driven the XG300 my friend got few years ago, but to me, it didn't felt any luxurious nor sporty to my taste, well, I haven't told him since I didn't want him to feel bad, but that's how I felt about those. I know, those are some of the older models, but it will take me a miracle in order for me to like anything from Japan or Korea now.

Also, I normally don't test drive the cars. Since I don't care much about the power, since I don't drive that much anyway, it's the brand, origin(North America, minus Chevy), style, and comfort, in addition to the price, that's all I'm looking for in a new car. I may have time sometime this week, but I won't be test driving them, I am only going to see if the seats are any good, if the view out is good enough, if the rear view is opened enough to help you back up, and if the feel inside suits me, that's some of the stuffs I'm going to look for, same thing goes for the Borrego if I have enough time to bother go to the Kia dealers.

Also, only reason that I come to this site and even care about Genesis is one reason only. Even though I am not too crazy about any Korean or Japanese imports, my blood is still, unmistakably Korean, so I do have a little pride left in me of seeing my native countries' company striving to succeed. I was grown with Hyundai, Daewoo, Kia, when I was little in Korea, and it irritated me when the first Excels failed to make the mark and becomming a late talk-show's favorite punchline/laughing stock as being one of the most problematic little cars being sold in US, that slowly made me ashamed of calling the Hyundai as my proud native nation's products.

I still think the Genesis was their biggest adventuresome risk, but part of me wants them to do well, and I hope they beat the Japanese rivals, well, maybe not yet, but in the future eventually, for, most Koreans, they have some grudge still left against the Japanese from their history, even though many Korean people still buys Japanese cars. They want to do better than the Japanese, whether it be the soccer games(which the 2 countries have the biggest rivalries on), or anything they do, they want to be better than the Japanese.

I do admit they still have a much more to go in order to catch the Japanese when it comes to automobiles, but I do want the Hyundai/Kia to do well, though I would never buy them for my own at least.

Sorry for the long post, but that's my point of view and hopefully it answerred some of your questions about me.
 
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Re: I've joined the club...

Let me just add to the fact that, I absolutely hate imports, whether it be Japanese or Korean, or Australian for that matter. I am the kinda guy who stay loyal to the North American designed and built cars no matter if they are the craps. Part of the reason that I hate Pontiac these days since they are pretty much wiping out the true DOMESTICS and rather sells the imports re-badged as Pontiac, that is the reason that I got the last breed North American, Grand Prix that I have been wanting for such a long time before these clowns killed it. I absolutely hate what GM is doing these days, and it furiates me when I heard that the G6, one of the VERY FEW, AMERICAN made car remaining in the Pontiac line up, will be replaced with another Australian Holden junk soon.

I haven't driven the Genesis for one reason. Simply didn't have time. I had to go to the appointment to meet the client few weeks ago, and I got out a bit early and managed to go down to the nearest dealer, and was going to get a brochure(since I kinda collect them), I DID want to test out the seats and everything, but I didn't want to get in trouble by being late to the appointment, and even with the help with the GPS, it took me a good 35-40 Minutes just to get there that didn't really help me to make the most of my trip. My first impression is what I wrote on my other thread. I just don't like the Asian style gauges housing designs that kinda look like an Arcade game cabinet that is hollow with the small viewing area with small letterings(I can't really explain it). Even though, for the Genesis, they kinda ripped-off Mercedes S-class(which I like) for it, but it still have the area that I hate, the gauge housing design itself. I got so used to, and a big fan of, the unique, sometimes downright outrageous designs that Pontiac use on their cars, such as 99 Grand Am that I used to drive, even the 92 Sunbird that was far more outrageous than its cousin, the plain-jane Cavalier. I just don't like the plain looking Chevy garbages that are too plain inside and out, nor anything in the leagues of the previous generation Camrys with the steering wheel design that screams 'IMPORT' which I find the same with the Holden G8, which is just not my style. I am more into the German style steering wheels, or my current Grand Prix's wheels that has a look of a boy-racer style with a small, aluminum look-alike panel with radio controls on it. Also, I just don't like Asian imports seats design. They are just too small on the bottom and feels cheaper. I've driven the Camry few years ago, and can't help but wonderring why that car was so popular. It didn't drive the way I wanted, and the whole car felt too light for my taste, same thing goes to the Sonata 4cyl I've driven about an year before that, it just felt like crap. I also driven the XG300 my friend got few years ago, but to me, it didn't felt any luxurious nor sporty to my taste, well, I haven't told him since I didn't want him to feel bad, but that's how I felt about those. I know, those are some of the older models, but it will take me a miracle in order for me to like anything from Japan or Korea now.

Also, I normally don't test drive the cars. Since I don't care much about the power, since I don't drive that much anyway, it's the brand, origin(North America, minus Chevy), style, and comfort, in addition to the price, that's all I'm looking for in a new car. I may have time sometime this week, but I won't be test driving them, I am only going to see if the seats are any good, if the view out is good enough, if the rear view is opened enough to help you back up, and if the feel inside suits me, that's some of the stuffs I'm going to look for, same thing goes for the Borrego if I have enough time to bother go to the Kia dealers.

Also, only reason that I come to this site and even care about Genesis is one reason only. Even though I am not too crazy about any Korean or Japanese imports, my blood is still, unmistakably Korean, so I do have a little pride left in me of seeing my native countries' company striving to succeed. I was grown with Hyundai, Daewoo, Kia, when I was little in Korea, and it irritated me when the first Excels failed to make the mark and becomming a late talk-show's favorite punchline/laughing stock as being one of the most problematic little cars being sold in US, that slowly made me ashamed of calling the Hyundai as my proud native nation's products.

I still think the Genesis was their biggest adventuresome risk, but part of me wants them to do well, and I hope they beat the Japanese rivals, well, maybe not yet, but in the future eventually, for, most Koreans, they have some grudge still left against the Japanese from their history, even though many Korean people still buys Japanese cars. They want to do better than the Japanese, whether it be the soccer games(which the 2 countries have the biggest rivalries on), or anything they do, they want to be better than the Japanese.

I do admit they still have a much more to go in order to catch the Japanese when it comes to automobiles, but I do want the Hyundai/Kia to do well, though I would never buy them for my own at least.

Sorry for the long post, but that's my point of view and hopefully it answerred some of your questions about me.

I use to always be loyal to american cars as well. As I had stated before I had several different american made cars in a row that turned out to be junk!

I got tired of all the trips to the dealers every little bit. Through frustration on my last piece of junk (1998 Chevy Malibu with blown motor at 24,000 miles) I decided to purchase my first Hyundai in 2000 at that same dealership after telling the service manager of all the frustrations on my last 4 american made cars. He was the one that told me to give Hyundai a try. He stated that of the ones they had sold that thet rarely got them back for anything other than regular service.

I tried his advise and have never been sorry. I have had great luck with the Hyundai's that I have and do own. It's just such load lifted off your shoulders not having to constantly schedual repairs all the time.

Maybe you have the time and money for repairs and extended warranties but I have a budget to live on. If the american car companies can't come through for me then that is not my fault. I gave them a chance and they failed me big time. What is wrong with a little common sense?

The american companies for the most part have crapped in their own nests. They made absolutely terrible cars through the 80's and 90's. Only now are some of their vehicles coming around. I think you can thank those imports that you hate so much for making them understand that if they are to ever compete they have to build a good product.

With the statements that you have just made there is absolutely no reason that you should even be on this website. This is obviously not an american car that we are talking about here. Since you hate all imports you have to hate this site.

I however am not a judge and jury, someone else needs to make that call. Based on what you have said though it is not possbile for you to like the comments of all the positive Genesis owners and to those that want to be.
 
Re: I've joined the club...

By the way according to many sources Hyundai has passed Toyota already in terms of quality. Toyota has actually slipped backwards on some of their vehicles.
 
Re: I've joined the club...

I don't mind the mean, unfriendly, or bad posts, since to me, Message boards are meant to share informations and opinions. There will be good ones that people will like, they will be others that people will find it irritating.

Well, to me, automobiles are solely a luck. If it breaks down many times, that simply means you've got unlucky and got a bad car. I know, the overal percentage plays a role here per brand, but in the history of my driving experience, though, I've owned only 3 cars so far, all of them being Pontiac, and my previeous 2 cars(92 Sunbird, and 99 Grand Am) both got involved in a number of accidents, but despite that fact, have NEVER, EVER broke down, and apart from sending the cars to the shop for the repairs of the accident, I never went to the shop for any problems. Well, yeah, once, when I had a 92 Sunbird, a small piece of the body side molding before the driver's side door was missing, that the factory forgot to install, so I had to make the trip to the dealer who orderred it and install it under warranty.

I know I am one of the minority, but I feel, even if it is the website for ONE particular vehicle, having only positive threads all over, that may or may not cover its posible shortcommings is not a good idea to really have the facts shared in that message board. You should have BOTH, positive, AND negative comments. Some will like it, some won't, but as a proven fact, 'NOTHING IS PERFECT'. Especially in automobiles.

And yeah, I admit, I shouldn't really be on this site, but as I have said before, I don't actually hate the car, I just expected it to be a lot more, that lives up to all those hypes that it gained from the moment the concept came out. I am just disappointed that the car isn't all that great to meet the expections and hypes in the first impressions I got. At first, I too, kinda anxiously waited for the Genesis to hit the US market, PROVIDED, that NONE of what appears on the concept's style gets changed. But, the production model was a failure and disappointment for me. And, when I actually went to the dealer to see it in person, my first impression was like, 'This is the car that caused so much hypes and news? Ugh'. I expected a lot more.

I know everyone is saying the imports helped the GM to get on its feet, but enough is done, so GM should now have to work on themselves now, they can't depend on an import to help them forever. As much as I hate re-badging business, I just don't want Pontiac to become nothing more than an import seller. I strongly go against it becoming Holden, rather than a Pontiac. I also don't like the fact that they are adding the Daewoo made G3 on their lineup, and killing the American G6 in place of another, stupid looking Holden to replace it, and rather want to see American made Phoenix making its return, and I want them to discard all the stupid G nomenclature and bring back Bonneville, Grand Prix, and Grand am names. And No, I NEVER thank those imports. I despise them since all of them LACKS AMERICAN style or attitude that Pontiacs used to be known as in the old days.

Well, at first, when I joined this site, I wasn't into Hyundai to begin with, but a new friend I made from GMI boards, Sal(Hyundai Genesis) kindly sent me the invitation to try out the site. I took a look at it, and just out of a good sport, I decided to help out and registerred. I do own a few car based sites(that are not doing any good, for they are too new, and not enough members, though I keep adding new features and contents), but, I just wanted to help out my new buddy.

I'll leave if you want me too, but my view on the import won't change. Even though, I am kinda hoping for the day the Korean company(doesn't have to be a Hyundai) to be recognized as a household name/mainstream like Japanese are right now, if it can be done, so that most Americans sees them as not as 'Cheaper Alternative to the big boys' but, as a benchmark to another brand.
 
Re: I've joined the club...

Wwwhhhhaaatttt?!?!?!?!?!

"I got so used to, and a big fan of, the unique, sometimes downright outrageous designs that Pontiac use on their cars, such as 99 Grand Am that I used to drive, even the 92 Sunbird that was far more outrageous than its cousin, the plain-jane Cavalier."

In the above quote, read "unique" as "crazy" and read "outrageous" as "insane". Why are any GM (especially Pontiac's, but excluding some Caddy's) being mentioned with the Genesis? I'm sure Granprix08 is a nice guy, and yes, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. But it's kinda like trying to explain to the guy wearing the leisure suit or the plaid shorts with the striped shirt and black socks with his sandals why he has no taste/style in clothing. He likes what he likes, as ill advised as it is.
 
Re: I've joined the club...

Yeah, you can put those words in, I don't care, I just miss the old Pontiac interiors than the current junks they are making and importing.

Yeah, Yeah, I may not know what is stylish, but to me, 90's to 2008(since my Grand Prix will be my last GM car) Pontiacs are the cars that are truly the most unique of any GM lines and I love it. ONLY the NORTH AMERICAN made Pontiacs that is.

I may be the only one but I am proud of it.
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Re: I've joined the club...

We're getting wayyyy of topic here fellas.
 
Re: I've joined the club...

In regards to this forum, I like the Genesis (have for some time) so I joined and I am a member of a few other big car forums for cars that I have researched and almost purchased. If I didn't like the Genesis I wouldn't be here and I don't think it's right to endlessly compare it to vehicles that have nothing to do with it whatsoever. If cheap plastic interiors are your thing there are plenty of GM forums around.
 
Re: I've joined the club...

I was simply trying to say that this is a site for all us Genesis nuts out here. I to agree this is not the place for talking about old GM products.

Now that being said there is nothing wrong about including a bit of information about cars that the Genesis will certainly be competeing against. I do enjoy hearing reports of people that have owned cars competeing against the Genesis.

I'm sorry if I led this charge..................back to Genesis!
 
Re: I've joined the club...

Sorry, but I figured it won't really be necessary. :( But then, I haven't tested out the Genesis's interior, so who knows, when I do go there this comming week, I may like it more than I expected, once I do, I will update my evaluations and post it here.
I think what these guys are trying to say is the following:

"Please try and go easy on being so negative about the Genesis. We know you don't like it as much as we do - but you can only leave this negative opinion in so many discussions before it starts sounding like a broken record. Your opinion is certainly allowed here - just like everyone's is - but it would be nice if you could tone it down just a little. The rest of us really like this car...

Thank you"

...now I hope I got that right. :p No one is saying you're not allowed to have your opinion - just go easy - especially in a new member's post where he/she is doing their introduction. Have a little more confidence in Hyundai. We're singing high praises to a corporation from your home country. That should, at least, make you feel a little proud...
 
A new thread designated for GrandPrix08 and his dislike for Hyundai (and everything non-American/Pontiac)?

Mods: shouldn't this be moved to the "off topic" area?
 
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Re: I've joined the club...

You should have BOTH, positive, AND negative comments. Some will like it, some won't, but as a proven fact, 'NOTHING IS PERFECT'. Especially in automobiles.

And yeah, I admit, I shouldn't really be on this site, but as I have said before, I don't actually hate the car, I just expected it to be a lot more, that lives up to all those hypes that it gained from the moment the concept came out. I am just disappointed that the car isn't all that great to meet the expections and hypes in the first impressions I got. 'This is the car that caused so much hypes and news? Ugh'. I expected a lot more.

Well, at first, when I joined this site, I wasn't into Hyundai to begin with, but a new friend I made from GMI boards, Sal(Hyundai Genesis) kindly sent me the invitation to try out the site. I took a look at it, and just out of a good sport, I decided to help out.

I'll leave if you want me too, but my view on the import won't change.

I for one do not want you to leave. You give this board sorely needed perspective.

I read almost all your posts. I think they offer a ton of value. You don't take yourself too seriously or any car too seriously for that matter.

Your posts and Hyundai Genesis are the ones I read the most. Actually, they are the only ones I usually read, when pressed for time.

If you do leave, this board will quickly become a Genesis Owners My Space board, IMHO.

If there needs to be a rule change, "only positive posts for new owners" or whatever, then make the rule change. Alieninating you as substitution for a rule change, is childish and moronic.

Again, I hope you stay and are allowed to continue to post your true feelings.
 
Re: I've joined the club...

I for one do not want you to leave. You give this board sorely needed perspective.

I read almost all your posts. I think they offer a ton of value. You don't take yourself too seriously or any car too seriously for that matter.

Your posts and Hyundai Genesis are the ones I read the most. Actually, they are the only ones I usually read, when pressed for time.

If you do leave, this board will quickly become a Genesis Owners My Space board, IMHO.

If there needs to be a rule change, "only positive posts for new owners" or whatever, then make the rule change. Alieninating you as substitution for a rule change, is childish and moronic.

Again, I hope you stay and are allowed to continue to post your true feelings.

I personally don't mind his opinions, but the fact is that his criticisms of the Genesis are baseless so far. He hasn't driven it, nor has he sat inside one. Currently, the "true" voices of reason are the actual owners themselves. Check out the "Cons" thread for example.
 
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What Par Avion said...we don't want you to leave, but at least sit in or drive the vehicle before you criticize. That's not too much to ask, is it? :D
 
Re: I've joined the club...

I for one do not want you to leave. You give this board sorely needed perspective.

I read almost all your posts. I think they offer a ton of value. You don't take yourself too seriously or any car too seriously for that matter.

Your posts and Hyundai Genesis are the ones I read the most. Actually, they are the only ones I usually read, when pressed for time.

If you do leave, this board will quickly become a Genesis Owners My Space board, IMHO.

If there needs to be a rule change, "only positive posts for new owners" or whatever, then make the rule change. Alieninating you as substitution for a rule change, is childish and moronic.

Again, I hope you stay and are allowed to continue to post your true feelings.

Again, my personal issue had more to do with where he was posting his opinions. That, and the fact that he hadn't even sat in/driven a new Genesis yet. Honestly, how much can you tell from looking at a car on the outside?

Either way, I would hate to see GrandPrix go. I think he adds quite a bit to this site actually.

-JW
 
Re: I've joined the club...

Again, my personal issue had more to do with where he was posting his opinions.
-JW

It might help if there were rules on where to post. I think you had a good idea about his posting, just would have been nice to know about it ahead of time.

Breaking it out in a seperate thread was a great idea. I hate that he feels alienated for stating his opinion. Maybe a PM to him and moving out the offending issue to a new thread might be better in the future.

Just a thought...
 
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