Tracking a Genesis Sedan

[dmitriylm]

Hey guys/gals,

Does anyone have experience with tracking these cars? I don't necessarily mean for competition but general fun on an occasional track day to let the car stretch its legs and learn its dynamics at the limit. Infineon Raceway is near me and there are plenty of auto cross events in the area although something tells me this car is a bit heavy for tighter autocross setups. I have a 2010 with the 4.6 and have recently installed the suspension from a 2013 RSPEC sedan (minus the sways for now). I'm not looking to go with coils anytime soon so the suspension will have to do but I'm looking for advice on areas of concern. How well will the 4.6 brakes deal with track conditions? If they fade like crazy what upgrades need to be done? Will upgraded pads alone work or will I need a complete overhaul? Tires/brakes are my main concerns but I'm sure experienced members will have other input.

 

[Tailwalker]

Shoot Sinstr a PM. He tracks his car quite a bit, and recently did a very concise write up on BC coilovers, which he helped R&D as a consumer/forum member. He is not affiliated with BC, just did the community a favor working with them. He can advise as to his thoughts on the brakes as well, though I know another member here did swap the coupe Brembo's.

 

[dmitriylm]

Shoot Sinstir a PM. He tracks his car quite a bit, and recently did a very concise write up on BC coilovers, which he helped R&D as a consumer/forum member. He is not affiliated with BC, just did the community a favor working with them. He can advise as to his thoughts on the brakes as well, though I know another member here did swap the coupe Brembo's.

Yeah that's the first thing I did as I ran across the BC thread when searching for track/tracking. I figured it would be good to start a topic for anyone who is interested down the line.

 

[Genny10]

I tracked mine recently. The brakes were the biggest problem for me. They got soft and squishy so I had to change the way I approached corners. The car is too heavy to track, IMO.

I have the 3.8 with nothing added and the power was fine. However, the 8 speed tranny causes some real problems on the track. You can't feather in the throttle out of corners. I kept having to mash the accelerator to get it to shift down and it was a mess. I switched over to manual shift and pretty much kept it in 3 thru 5 gears and that helped. But the lag in shifting is annoying.

I will say that other than those two problems, the car handled pretty well and I was never embarrassed by anything else on the track except the AMG63 and M3's that ate me up pretty good.

This was on a 3 mile track over two days (about 8 runs). I don't think I will track her again but if I do I would get stronger brake pads and upgrade the brake fluid.

 

[dmitriylm]

I tracked mine recently. The brakes were the biggest problem for me. They got soft and squishy so I had to change the way I approached corners. The car is too heavy to track, IMO.

I have the 3.8 with nothing added and the power was fine. However, the 8 speed tranny causes some real problems on the track. You can't feather in the throttle out of corners. I kept having to mash the accelerator to get it to shift down and it was a mess. I switched over to manual shift and pretty much kept it in 3 thru 5 gears and that helped. But the lag in shifting is annoying.

I will say that other than those two problems, the car handled pretty well and I was never embarrassed by anything else on the track except the AMG63 and M3's that ate me up pretty good.

This was on a 3 mile track over two days (about 8 runs). I don't think I will track her again but if I do I would get stronger brake pads and upgrade the brake fluid.

Thanks for the feedback! This is inline with what Sinstr told me based on his track experience.

From his PM:

Sonoma is a great track. The biggest problem with the Sedan is the brakes. I found that anything over 15 minutes on the track will start cooking the breaks. Before hitting the track, switch to EBC Pads and change the brake fluid to anything that is high temp. With stock brakes, you will not get more then 10-12 min before you get brake fade, and if that gets bad enough you will have to bleed them before the next session. Definitely nothing you want to be doing during a track day you are paying for. The paint on my front brakes cooked and changed color from me tracking the car, so don't be surprised if you have to re paint the calipers. Sonoma is a track that has a few hard braking zones, nothing like Sebring or Road Atlanta. Just make some brake adjustments and get a good set of tires. Dont do a staggered setup, keep it a squared set up. The staggered on my car created a huge push, I was able to tune it out by keeping 245s on all four corners. Post up some videos once you go.

Square tire setup and brakes seem to be key. I wonder what it will take for me to achieve a reasonably fade free experience over a track day? Would running the Coupe Brembo's setup on the fronts or the Equus calipers help dramatically?

 

[84FordMan]

Square tire setup and brakes seem to be key. I wonder what it will take for me to achieve a reasonably fade free experience over a track day? Would running the Coupe Brembo's setup on the fronts or the Equus calipers help dramatically?

2013+ Equus monoblock calipers and rotors offer the largest surface area, but come at the cost of weighing the heaviest (By a good margin) and we all know the most crucial weight savings are done with unsprung mass (Brakes, wheels, tires, etc).

The Equus rotors are 20mm larger than the Coupe Brembos and 30 to 40mm larger than 4.6 Sedan rotors (09/10 MY had smaller rotors than 11+). They require a minimum of a 19" wheel to clear.

Pad choices are extremely limited either cushy, non-track day OE-style pads or Carbotech offers a variety of different formulations.

A full Coupe Brembo swap gives you four-piston calipers at all four corners, brings your rear rotors up to 13" and are thicker. These will clear OEM 18" wheels. Front brake assembly is larger and lighter than OEM 4.6 four-piston setup. Pad choices abound from every major pad manufacturer and Carbotech still offers a full suite of pads to cover any scenario.

For keeping stock calipers, again defer to Carbotech for the best choice of pads for track day.

http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds2.asp

http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads.asp?Make=Hyundai

AX6 is the best overall pad for everyday use and occasional track use. For a track day I would use XP8 personally.

 

[scottdk]

Another member has tracked his R Spec sedan. He replaced his pads, fluid, rotors, and brake lines (stainless) from EBC prior to the track. His comments are as follows:

His video of the event is below. He also has the exhaust cutouts. Too bad he had the A/S Continental tires on it They are begging for mercy!

I was probably a bit harsh on my critique. I spent $800 and expected race car performance. With new fluid & race spec brake pads, I had a strong brake pedal, but after 2 laps of race level braking stress, they faded. I had to let them cool. Returned very quickly and worked well, but the car is heavy and brakes can only do so much. For street use, top notch. For track use, very good. They look amazing! I am very happy with them for my daily
needs. Expected better fade resistance on track

His brake thread: http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=9452

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7CDESUN86U

 

[ae1440]

I'm actually prepping my car for a while track day later this summer, just ordered Goodridge stainless lines and stoptech dot 4 fluid. I have a set of gen coupe 19" reals wheels 8" front and 8.5" rear hoping to install a 235/255 tire! Going to order some R1 rotors and ebc pads I believe yellow is the most aggressive! That's my bare minimum list and budget pending maybe find a better seat bar unfortunately coil overs probably won't happen before track day!

 

[84FordMan]

I have a set of Genesis Coupe 19" reals wheels 8" front and 8.5" rear hoping to install a 235/255 tire!

Pick up a set of 5mm spacers for the front. The spokes of the BK1 (10-12) Genesis Coupe 18s and 19s hit the 4.6 Sedan caliper, unless a spacer is used. BK2 (2013+) wheels did not have this issue.

 

[dmitriylm]

I'm actually prepping my car for a while track day later this summer, just ordered Goodridge stainless lines and stoptech dot 4 fluid. I have a set of Genesis Coupe 19" reals wheels 8" front and 8.5" rear hoping to install a 235/255 tire! Going to order some R1 rotors and ebc pads I believe yellow is the most aggressive! That's my bare minimum list and budget pending maybe find a better seat bar unfortunately coil overs probably won't happen before track day!

Let us know how it goes!

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[amartz]

I tracked mine recently. The brakes were the biggest problem for me.

Which model year?

 

[Genny10]

Which model year?

2012 3.8L. Again - power was fine for this track. Would hit about 120 mph on the long stretch and then brake down to 65 for the first turn. Then a couple seconds on the gas and very hard braking into a tight turn, etc. By turn 10 on the back side the brakes would be fading pretty good. Caused me to have to hit the brakes extra hard and get off them quickly so that air could cool them.

I will also say that the ESC couldn't figure out what was happening. I was scrubbing tires hard and they were yelling. No sliding but the ESC light would come on and sometimes not go off for several minutes. Other times, no ESC at all. It just seemed confused.

 

[dmitriylm]

Does anyone have an opinion about a track day setup utilizing OEM rotors (there are drilled and slotted/drilled rotors available but I'm not convinced they are much better for stopping distances and they are more prone to cracking), EBC Yellowstuff pads and Motul 600 brake fluid? I've been doing a ton of reading online and it looks like others have used a similar combination for trouble free track days in 4200lbs+ cars. Fluid/pads looks to be key as even BMW M3's experience significant fade with OEM fluid/pads.

*EDIT* I'm also considering EBC Redstuff pads as they seem to be better suited for daily driven vehicles and bite better when cold. The Yellowstuff will withstand higher temps but have longer stopping distance when cold.