Transmission damage - Beware

[jumbo]

Jumbo, you keep saying that "it is not an isolated incident" what is your basis for that? I can tell you that somehow crashing your car well over a foot and half so that the transmission slams into the road is an extremely isolated incident. What do you want Hyundai to do for you? Call you to say sir next time better buy an armored personnel carrier for your transportation needs or a jacked up 4x4? You keep trying to inply that this is somehow Hyundai's issue that you hit a road hazard, that is some absurd thinking.

You may be right for all I know. I said that someone who I believe is in a position to know said it. Maybe you are better informed but I think you would have to be a Hyundai service executive for that to be true.

No I don't expect them to urge me to buy an armored personnel carrier. I would expect them to return my messages to better understand the issue and have an intelligent conversation on the subject.

I was able to look up the price of the Genesis Transmisison via an online parts catalog for 2011 Genesis Sedan. These are firm prices and the parts can be ordered from the website:

Automatic transmission, Transmission
Genesis, 3.8L, From 6/19/08
List Price : $7,856.64
Your Price : $6,285.31

Automatic transmission, Transmission
Genesis, 4.6L, From 2/18/10
Price:$11,859.43 [no discount listed]

Obviously, these prices are for parts only, and do not include shipping. Interesting that apparently the ZF transmission on the 4.6 changed on 2/18/10, while the Aisin transmission for the 3.8 seems to have remained the same for the entire 2009-2011 production run (both replaced by Hyundai 8-speed transmission for 2012 model year).

Thank you Mark. I think this explains the cost issue. I have a 2011 4.6L so that seems quite possible. (Note that my profile says I have a 3.8 but the only other choice was 4.6 Tau and I wasn't sure what that meant so I went with 3.8.)

 

[Mark_888]

Thank you Mark. I think this explains the cost issue. I have a 2011 4.6L so that seems quite possible. (Note that my profile says I have a 3.8 but the only other choice was 4.6 Tau and I wasn't sure what that meant so I went with 3.8.)

Hyundai calls their 3.8 engine the Lamda, and the 4.6/5.0 the Tau. These are Greek Leters of the alphabet and are used to define engine class for Hyundai engines. For example, the 3.8 Lambda is used in several Hyundai and Kia autos, although there are usually some differences between them depending on the specific application, but they are all part the Lambda engine family. The 4.6 and 5.0 are both part of the Tau family of engines (5.0 has cylindars bored out for more displacement, among other differences). I assume you can change your profile to specify that you have the 4.6 Tau engine.

I suspect that one reason the ZF trasmission on the 4.6 is so expensive to replace is that perhaps it was custom revised for Hyundai, and Hyundai no longer uses it in the 2012 Genesis, so they probably had to purchase a bunch of spare ZF transmissions to sit in a warehouse in Korea if replacements are needed (for warranty or collisions), even though they know some will never be used. Or maybe they have to custom order them from ZF. Most people are aware that if one tries to purchase all the parts of a car, they would probably cost 5 times the orginal cost of the vehicle.

 

[Mark_888]

No I don't expect them to urge me to buy an armored personnel carrier. I would expect them to return my messages to better understand the issue and have an intelligent conversation on the subject.

I am quite sure that if you or your insurance company paid for the transmission up front, they would order it immediately. They don't want to be stuck with something so expensive if there is chance that a customer (or insurance company) changed their mind (you mentioned that your insurance company wanted to total the car, so maybe HMA got nervous about them paying for it). If the transmission has to be shipped from overseas, there is no guarantee on delivery time, especially for something that large and heavy that is normally not sent by air.

Lastly (and I apologize in advance if you feel insulted by this), if I were a HMA employee (I assume you were taking to HMA, but not sure) and I was talking to a customer who had a Genesis 4.6, and given of choice of describing what engine they had, picked the 3.8, simply because they didn’t know what “4.6 Tau” meant, I would be very leery of anything that customer said, and would avoid that person like the plague.

 

[jumbo]

Mark -

Your replies have been very helpful and contained a lot of information. To clarify a couple of things: You are correct in that the service dept would not order the new transmission until paid. I don't blame them at all and they were paid about a week and a half ago. You might also be correct about the issue of uncertain delivery date. I'm just more than a little frustrated at the whole situation and was probably venting a bit.

Lastly, in all of my dealings with HMA we have all been well aware that I have a 4.6. I just selected 3.8 rather than 4.6 in my profile for this forum for the reason explained. Mea culpa.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark -

Your replies have been very helpful and contained a lot of information. To clarify a couple of things: You are correct in that the service dept would not order the new transmission until paid. I don't blame them at all and they were paid about a week and a half ago. You might also be correct about the issue of uncertain delivery date. I'm just more than a little frustrated at the whole situation and was probably venting a bit.

Lastly, in all of my dealings with HMA we have all been well aware that I have a 4.6. I just selected 3.8 rather than 4.6 in my profile for this forum for the reason explained. Mea culpa.

I thought you said Hyundai would not order it, and that the dealer was very helpful. You are confusing me to no end. The dealer is an independent business and is not the same and Hyundai Motor America or Hyundai Motor Company (Korea). So it sounds like a dealer problem. I would contact the GM of the dealership, or take it to a different dealer.

It's not too late to change your profile to indicate you have a 4.6. Is there some reason you cannot do this now?

 

[jumbo]

I thought you said Hyundai would not order it, and that the dealer was very helpful. You are confusing me to no end. The dealer is an independent business and is not the same and Hyundai Motor America or Hyundai Motor Company (Korea). So it sounds like a dealer problem. I would contact the GM of the dealership, or take it to a different dealer.

It's not too late to change your profile to indicate you have a 4.6. Is there some reason you cannot do this now?

Sorry, I thought I was being clear. The dealership dealt with the insurance company, finally reaching agreement to replace the transmission and receiving payment about a week and a half ago. At that time HMA would not accept an order due to lack of availability. They said that they would accept an order (but not guarantee a delivery date) on 11/7.

I have changed the profile.

 

[Mark_888]

Sorry, I thought I was being clear. The dealership dealt with the insurance company, finally reaching agreement to replace the transmission and receiving payment about a week and a half ago. At that time HMA would not accept an order due to lack of availability. They said that they would accept an order (but not guarantee a delivery date) on 11/7.

I have changed the profile.

I don't understand what the complaint is. Obviously, it appears that HMA will not accept an order unless they have the part in stock or are reasonably sure how long it will take to get it (they may need to find out from the supplier). Not sure why you think they should guarantee a delivery date.

BTW, your transmission is made by ZF (a German company), and very similar (if not the same) as used on selected cars from BMW, Bentley, VW, Audi, and others (or at least "were used" back when 6-speed auto transmissions were the norm). As mentioned before, Hyundai now uses a 8-speed Hyundai transmission starting in 2012 model year for Genesis Sedan and Equus.

I have rental car reimbursement on my car insurance for situations like this. Maybe you should consider adding that to your policy. You could also ask the dealer for a loaner (even if not a Genesis) since they are making a bundle on this non-warranty repair (they don't make much on warranty repairs).

 

[GTech]

Jumbo, there is no point in arguing with you. You are going to be right and Hyundai is going to be wrong no matter what.

Still at a lost what is there for Hyundai to understand here any better. You hit something and smashed the pan in the transmission, not the car's fault, no the tranny mfg's fault, not Hyundai's fault, but your fault. People hit stuff every day and break pieces of their cars. The mfg is not liable or has to fix this under goodwill when the driver hits something. Somehow you think this is a common problem based on a mysterious source "in the know." Anyone that knows anything about cars, knows that this is not the case. Bottoming the car so hard as to scrape or hit the transmission pan, engine pan, etc. is not something cars are designed for, from any brand. (Except of course special purpose 4x4's with special trail packages with metal skid plates underneath, but not regular on-road vehicles.)

Get your transmission fixed, count your lucky stars that your insurance is paying 18K to fix this (which is insane). Wish you the best of luck avoiding the next pothole.

Cheers,

 

[Nobody]

Your title is misleading. It should say, "I used poor driving judgement and broke my transmission"

To quote Jumbo, the original poster: "short gravel road I hit a bump followed by a pothole..."

You are offroad and blame Hyundai's use of a composite part for causing your transmission to fail? Dude, it is your fault! This is a perfect example of how American's hate to take personal responsibility. If I f-up and slide off the road during winter, I won't go on the car forum and b*tch about how Hyundai should have used a different tire or that the county didn't use enough salt or plow fast enough.

I don't blame Hyundai for not calling you back. What do you expect them to say? Sorry that you used poor judgement in travelling offroad with a performance-oriented sedan?

 

[CanukV6]

Jumbo: Obviously I am unaware of your insurance policy details, but out of curiosity, whose decision was it to repair rather that 'write the car off'? Your original post seemed to suggest you were happy they are fixing it rather than paying out for the value of the car and (I'm assuming) allowing you you lease a replacement. Given the hassles you have had wouldn't replacement have been a better choice? With new 2011 models being heavily discounted you may have been able to lease a new one for the same or less money.

Also, while I sympathize with your situation, I agree with others that it seems unfair to blame the vehicle design for the damage.

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[Mark_888]

Jumbo: Obviously I am unaware of your insurance policy details, but out of curiosity, whose decision was it to repair rather that 'write the car off'? Your original post seemed to suggest you were happy they are fixing it rather than paying out for the value of the car and (I'm assuming) allowing you you lease a replacement. Given the hassles you have had wouldn't replacement have been a better choice? With new 2011 models being heavily discounted you may have been able to lease a new one for the same or less money.

Also, while I sympathize with your situation, I agree with others that it seems unfair to blame the vehicle design for the damage.

I am not surprised that the dealer tried to talk the insurance company out of totaling the car. The dealer plans to make a killing on the non-warranty repair, probably $5K or more profit (maybe $5K profit on the part alone).

 

[Jimmmmbo!]

Your title is misleading. It should say, "I used poor driving judgement and broke my transmission"

To quote Jumbo, the original poster: "short gravel road I hit a bump followed by a pothole..."

You are offroad and blame Hyundai's use of a composite part for causing your transmission to fail? Dude, it is your fault! This is a perfect example of how American's hate to take personal responsibility. If I f-up and slide off the road during winter, I won't go on the car forum and b*tch about how Hyundai should have used a different tire or that the county didn't use enough salt or plow fast enough.

I don't blame Hyundai for not calling you back. What do you expect them to say? Sorry that you used poor judgement in travelling offroad with a performance-oriented sedan?

Careful. Graded gravel roads are likely not considered "off-road" locally if they are maintained by the transportation department. The OP didn't indicate any details on this. We have plenty of them in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

Although most graded gravel roads are maintained well enough to keep large potholes from forming or they can be held liable for injury/damage to you or your vehicle.

 

[Jimmmmbo!]

IWhile driving on a short gravel road I hit a bump followed by a pothole, causing the underside of the car to scrape the road surface. This has happened to me dozens of times in my BMWs without issue and the car seemed fine.

I agree with the majority sentiment here. The only times I have ever bottomed out a vehicle in my 22 years of driving is when I was "Dukes of Hazzard" jumping my '77 Ford Maverick (oh yeah!) and barreling down an unmaintained dirt road in my unlifted '93 Yukon in the Nevada desert.

This situation is just odd and very hard to believe. I think that's what most of us are reacting to.

 

[jumbo]

Your title is misleading. It should say, "I used poor driving judgement and broke my transmission"

To quote Jumbo, the original poster: "short gravel road I hit a bump followed by a pothole..."

You are offroad and blame Hyundai's use of a composite part for causing your transmission to fail? Dude, it is your fault! This is a perfect example of how American's hate to take personal responsibility. If I f-up and slide off the road during winter, I won't go on the car forum and b*tch about how Hyundai should have used a different tire or that the county didn't use enough salt or plow fast enough.

I don't blame Hyundai for not calling you back. What do you expect them to say? Sorry that you used poor judgement in travelling offroad with a performance-oriented sedan?

You are making a lot of assumptions my friend. I was driving on a gravel road leading to the gravel parking lot of the Discovery Museum in Sausalito. It is next to the Cavallo Point Resort just north of the Golden Gate Bridge. I was driving about 15 MPH and was following a car about 10 yards ahead of me (a Honda civic not an SUV). My left tire hit a decent size bump followed by a pothole. The transmission scraped the gravel road. Not a very controversial use of the vehicle (just my opinion).

As a side note: I was taking the Golden Gate Transit bus to work this morning (as I have for the past month). In San Francisco the bus hit a pothole on Broadway near Sansome. The bottom of the bus scraped the pavement. I chuckled.

 

[Gunkk]

The offending gravel road:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Disco...=lLIe0l5bWJGzaIRDgXPEhA&cbp=12,300.3,,0,18.65

 

[waveman]

The offending gravel road:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Disco...=lLIe0l5bWJGzaIRDgXPEhA&cbp=12,300.3,,0,18.65

The road doesn't look bad from the pic - certainly not one I'd think twice about driving on. I don't doubt the OP's account of what happened, but it sounds like a very unusual set of circumstances. I do my best to avoid scraping the bottom of my car, but sometimes puddles hide deep potholes and bumps are sometimes higher than they seem. However, I'd think that if the Genesis were especially prone to transmission damage from fluid leaks we'd have heard more about it.

 

[wjakridgeii]

My bad, I didn't see you were from San Francisco, $8k was the transmission and $10k was labor.

Now come on that was funny!! Even someone from San Francisco can appreciate the humor in that statement.

It is outrageous that a $40,000 dollar car has an $18,000 transmission. Guaranteed, if this happened in Arkansas, Bubba Hyundai would have it replaced for $2,000 dollars.

 

[waveman]

Guaranteed, if this happened in Arkansas, Bubba Hyundai would have it replaced for $2,000 dollars.

I'm in Alabama... I think I have one of them transmissions in the bathtub downstairs.

 

[ImInPA]

Just my opinion, but, there must be more to this story than what the OP has posted. To bottom out the car so severely that it broke the tranny pan, he simply had to be going faster than was prudent. With how quiet the Genesis is, I can understand this. Moral of story, when traveling on non-paved roads, slow it down, and be extra careful. Looking at that pic, a pot hole deep enough to bottom the car out should have been visually detected detected by a semi-conscious driver. Glad to hear the insurance company is bailing him out.

 

[Mark_888]

Glad to hear the insurance company is bailing him out.

I can't imagine under what circumstances that an insurance company would not cover damage due to an accident, even if driver is negligent (not say that is the case here).