Would you still buy if Hyundai raised prices?

[LA Genesis]

^ So you complain about "quality", but yet you don't want to pay for it?

Not exactly logical.

Referring to quality, I'm not talking about quality of seat leather. I'm talking about having everything in the car work as it designed. The widespread radio issues such as loss of audio issue shouldn't carry over from model year to model year. I'm on my fourth head unit which started with the widespread unchecked surround sound issue. My sound quality remains poor all the time and now I occasionally hear a popping noise and the head unit reboots. Hyundai won't address the issue because I don't drive around with a Hyundai engineer in my car all the time. Quality means not having to leave an 8 month old car in the shop for 7 days because of a fuel pump problem.

By quality service experience I was referring to having a service department that fixes a problem correctly the first time. Read the forum and see the problems others are having with the car. Seats that don't move, Brakes that don't work.

These are some of the quality related issues that are hopefully addressed with the 2G Genesis. If Hyundai gets the 2G Genesis to work right, I might be tempted to buy one despite the inconveniences I have suffered. I think the new styling looks great.

 

[YEH]

^ So you are really talking about reliability, not "quality."

While some owners have had issues w/ things like the engine or transmission, they haven't been widespread problems.

As for the issues w/ the audio head unit, that would be something for Harmon/Kardon to take up since they designed the system (wouldn't be surprised at all for Rolls to have the same issue w/ Lexicon systems; most high end audio systems tend to be pretty finicky); and if the H/K system is that unreliable, then maybe Hyundai should switch to another audio supplier.

As for quality service - that's something Hyundai needs to work on but that's more on the dealership front.

And besides, having dealt w/ plenty of BMW/Porsche service depts. - it's not like they are a bed of roses when it comes to diagnosing or fixing problems, and many owners of German luxury cars won't keep them past the warranty period.

 

[037]

The best thing that Hyundai has going for them is bang for the buck equation. If I couldn't walk into a dealership and use Hyundai Circle I would not have this brand as my first pick when choosing a car.

I hate haggling with dealers over price and circle is my ticket to good value.

P.S. This chart is for the 2010 models over 3 years, I sure hope the 2015 chart looks better...

 

[YEH]

^ Hyundai was above average for a no. of years in the JDP VDS until it dropped below avg. for the 2013 VDS.

Still really depends on the model was the Sonata was rated the most reliable mainstream, midsize sedan and the Elantra the 3rd most reliable within its class (a bad showing by 1 or 2 models can really drop the overall brand rating).

TORONTO, Feb. 13, 2013 /CNW/ - Hyundai Auto Canada Corp. today announced that the Genesis premium sedan has earned the 2013 Canadian Black Book Award for Best Retained Value in the "Full-size Car" category. The Canadian Black Book Retained Value Awards recognize the vehicles that maintain the highest percentage of their original Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) after four years on-sale. Canadian Black Book is the Canadian automotive industry's leading source for used vehicle valuation.
PR Newswire.

"It is exciting to see the Hyundai Genesis win our Full-size Car award, representing the first Korean-manufactured vehicle ever to win a Canadian Black Book Retained Value Award," added Josh Bailey , Vice-President, Research and Editorial, Canadian Black Book.
PR Newswire.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...book-best-retained-value-award-191111481.html


For a RWD sedan w/o available AWD, the Genesis has been doing pretty well sales-wise in Canada - outselling the Infiniti M by multiples and even outselling the brand new Lexus GS.

Anyone in Canada who can comment about the residual values on the Genesis?

 

[RickyBobby]

Hyundai will raise the price on the 2G Genesis and it will have an interior on par with the GS and M, but the price increase will not be to the level of the GS and M since Hyundai does not have to price in the cost of separate luxury brand and dealer network (so still will have around a $7-8k price advantage; maybe less than that if Hyundai ups the service to include things like guaranteed loaners).

It would be suicidal if Hyundai were to raise prices to the level of the GS and M since Hyundai isn't providing a separate luxury brand/dealer network.

Now, it would also be a bad business move for Hyundai to provide a separate luxury brand/dealer network and raise prices on par w/ the GS and M since Lexus almost canceled the GS due to poor sales (did end up killing the V8 GS) and M sales are starting to get to RL territory - since it would put Hyundai in the same boat as Lexus and Infiniti when it comes to competing against MB and BMW.

The 2G Genesis should start around $38-39k to reflect the more luxurious interior and added tech; this would still undercut the GS and M by a healthy margin.

The Genesis, even w/o AWD, is outselling the newer M and is selling as well as the brand new GS in NA; the new Genesis should once again outsell the GS.

The Genesis would not exist if Lexus didn't succeed with the GS. Has the Geneisis sedan results ever been released, or just making more things up again.

There is 10k off the Genesis now, its a cheaper car and still doesn't sell better than much anything but the RL.

 

[RickyBobby]

^ So you complain about "quality", but yet you don't want to pay for it?

Not exactly logical.

Where the current Genesis is most lacking is in the interior - putting in a better interior, one that is up to par w/ the Germans, costs $$ (can't complain about the interior and then turn around complain about a price hike when Hyundai puts in a more luxurious interior).

And if you want customer service befitting a luxury sedan - such as guaranteed loaners, etc. - that also costs $$ (the reason why the price of the Equus is much closer to the price of the LS460 than the Genesis is to the GS is b/c Hyundai priced in the cost of luxury service in the Equus).

So the 2G Genesis w/ an interior on par w/ the rest of the segment, less weight due to greater use of more expensive weight-reduction materials and some more tech items on the base model will result in starting price around $38-39k.

That still undercuts the Lexus and Infiniti by $9-10k, more so for BMW and MB.

The addition of available AWD to the Genesis, alone, should increase sales by 50-60%.

The new Azera is selling well enough (around 800 a month) considering that there is a limited supply for the US market since the Azera, despite its size, is one of the best selling cars in Korea.

Hyundai could sell more Azeras in the US if they had more supply, but they don't which is why they only offer the Azera fully loaded (w/ no lower base trim) in the US.

The Kia Cadenza will be hitting dealer lots in a few months, so H/K will add sales in the upscale sedan market w/ that.

The following are the median household income levels for Equus owners.

Signature trim - $213,000

Ultimate trim is $285,000


And as for "quality" both the Azera and Avalon have beaten the Lexus ES in a no. of comparison tests and the new Acura RLX starts at $48,450 (does not included destination fee), which would mean that even w/ a price hike to $38k, the 2G Genesis would still be $10k less than a FWD sedan.

Add nav and the price of the RLX goes up to $50,950, add the tech package (which doesn't include the Krell sound system) and the price of the RLX goes up to $54,450, add the Krell audio system and the price goes up to $56,950.

So which one seems overpriced?

A FWD (what many see as a tarted up Accord) RLX with 310HP that costs $57k (+ destination) or a loaded 2G R-Spec which will probably go for around $50-51k? (And this doesn't factor in that the RLX already looks dull/outdated).

Is this serious or some sort of joke?

 

[IllGen]

no id go back to lexus

 

[YEH]

The Genesis would not exist if Lexus didn't succeed with the GS. Has the Geneisis sedan results ever been released, or just making more things up again.

There is 10k off the Genesis now, its a cheaper car and still doesn't sell better than much anything but the RL.

No - the Genesis would exist w/o the GS (after all, Toyota brought forth the GS to the US to compete against the Germans), esp. since there is a big market for the Genesis in Korea.

The Genesis sedan makes up about 55% of Genesis sales in the US - so the Genesis sedan sells better than the M, the A6, as well as the GS for the past several years until the new GS was launched (and even then, sales of the 2 were close) - all w/o the benefit of AWD.

Even w/o AWD, the Genesis sedan does significantly better than the M and GS in Canada.

Genesis sales

2011 - 816
2012 - 1,206

GS sales

2011 - 128
2012 - 836

M sales

2011 - 408
2012 - 320


The disparity should only increase when the 2G Genesis launches w/ available AWD (even w/ a higher pricepoint).

In addition, the Genesis has the highest V8 take rate in the segment (around 30-35%; used to be 45% before gas prices rose and before the more powerful 3.8) whereas Toyota canceled the V8 GS (and almost canceled the GS entirely).

So, as usual, you proffer little aside of lame ad hominem attacks.

 

[newspruce]

It depends on what improvements have been made. For essentually the same car with minor trim changes, absolutely not! Back to MB or Lexus.