YES your Genesis can SELF DRIVE!!!

[dcottrell6]

Interesting tech and maybe fun to play around with but I agree with skipgen and PMCErnie.
If you get into an accident or hit someone in the street with the system engaged, you are just asking for more trouble than it's worth.
LKAS is nice to have but is easily fooled. I mostly have mine off except for longer drives.

 

[84Jeeper]

LKAS is a SAFETY system and most certainly not meant to be hands free driving (despite the fantastic caravan video). It is also a first gen system and is quite limited in its abilities.

Please realize this system is orders of magnitude better than LKAS. It will now drive through my curvy neighborhood road which has NO LANE MARKINGS!!! (now it's not great doing that...sort of like a 3 year old but it does stay on the road) ...and is getting better with every update.

While we tend to think of these systems as a convenience device, and they are geared towards that no doubt (OpenPilot is definitely great for long drives), and I do use it as just that, I mean really just look at how I titled this post (I did want it to be attention getting )...

A strong argument can be made that is a SAFETY device. You drop your coffee, get distracted by a kid, start texting or talking on the phone, have a medical issue... Instead of leaving the roadway and hitting a tree, overturning, or hitting another car head on you get a chance to recover with no harm done. Drive with your hands on the wheel all the time if you like, but if you become distracted/incapacitated you have a backup copilot.

Just like AEB (automatic emergency braking) you get distracted, hopefully the car will stop instead of rear ending someone. Might not work all the time but the one time it does you will be so thankful.

Currently under development in OP is a feature that will allow the car to coast to a stop if you become unresponsive (it already watches you to make sure you are watching the road and will "yell" at you if you're not)...that is a HUGE SAFETY win. Have a heart attack, stroke, seizure....the car stays in its lane and coasts to a stop, about the best outcome you could hope for (on the cars part) if you are incapacitated. Now before you say "oh but now your stopped on the road and can be hit"... I say better taking that chance than hitting a tree...and if the other drivers are paying attention like WE ALL SHOULD BE they won't hit a stopped vehicle or maybe their AEB will kick in.

Kind of funny if you look at it the other way around. I just drove a friends BMW from CA to FL w/o OP. I told my friend when I got there that his car was dangerous as hell. Here I am driving 75 mph and if I wasn't watching it every second it would just drive right off the road!! I couldn't believe they would make such a dangerous car!! LOL

All the arguments made against this system or any other can be made against cruise control (which I bet most of us use for the same convenience as this system, reduce driver fatigue).

Backup cameras...you still need to use your mirrors, airbags...you still need to buckle up, blind spot monitoring...you still have to look, rear cross traffic alert..you better be looking, cruise control or OpenPilot...you still need to PAY ATTENTION and at no time will I ever say otherwise! Full self driving is a ways off for consumer cars (maybe not so much for 18 wheelers, anyone catch the 60 minutes episode a few weeks back? Here's a link.).

Watch 60 Minutes: Will driverless trucks soon share our roads? - Full show on CBS All Access

But I digress....

YOU are the driver YOU are responsible YOU are in control.

But it's a great backup copilot!

Anyone in Southern California is most welcome to come by and give it a try...once we don't have to maintain social distancing.

...and y'all be careful out there driving those "dangerous" cars w/o this safety net...

 

[EdP]

LKAS is a SAFETY system and most certainly not meant to be hands free driving (despite the fantastic caravan video). It is also a first gen system and is quite limited in its abilities.


A strong argument can be made that is a SAFETY device. You drop your coffee, get distracted by a kid, start texting or talking on the phone, have a medical issue... Instead of leaving the roadway and hitting a tree, overturning, or hitting another car head on you get a chance to recover with no harm done. Drive with your hands on the wheel all the time if you like, but if you become distracted/incapacitated you have a backup copilot.


Kind of funny if you look at it the other way around. I just drove a friends BMW from CA to FL w/o OP. I told my friend when I got there that his car was dangerous as hell. Here I am driving 75 mph and if I wasn't watching it every second it would just drive right off the road!! I couldn't believe they would make such a dangerous car!! LOL

All the arguments made against this system or any other can be made against cruise control (which I bet most of us use for the same convenience as this system, reduce driver fatigue).

YOU are the driver YOU are responsible YOU are in control.

The potential safety aspects are great. In a medical emergency it would be nice to have the car come to a stop safely.

The problem is, if you can, people will. If it was idiot proof it would be a great safety device. We've all seen the videos of Tesla drivers sleeping, watching movies, etc. Does this truly avoid those scenarios?

 

[84Jeeper]

Well, it's a tool like all LKAS, AEB, etc... it can be abused and those are not idiot proof and not 100% and neither is this (if it were we would be talking full autonomous vehicle), but we all pay for these features and manufactures put them in the cars in the hope they will work the 1 time we need it.

That being said yes the system watches to make sure you are looking ahead, if you fall asleep and your head stays upright facing forward, I don't believe it will at this time see your eyes are closed. However, if you nod down it's gonna start screaming at ya (and soon will slow the car to a stop). If you prop your video player on the dash in front of the steering wheel ... you can probably get away with it. If the video is in the center of the dash...probably not. I know it yells at me if I look too long at the radio.

Like they say nothing in life is 100% except death and taxes.

Will this ever be the 100% solution...no not with just one camera. But it sure makes a trip less tiring and provides a significant safety advantage even now.

Is this the cure all for irresponsible drivers ... NOPE. Can't fix that (full self driving will, but we are a LONG ways from that for personal cars).

As for sleeping Tesla drivers ... well I am sure it has happened. Are ALL the videos real? I don't know. But I do know this. Drivers fall asleep at the wheel in non Tesla vehicles all the time with disastrous results. Do we have video of it... umm that would be a dangerous video to record LOL. The fact that you could record a sleeping Tesla drive is a testament to the safety of that system (that everyone seems to want to hate on). Should it happen NO, do vehicle drivers (Tesla or not) fall asleep...YES.

...and I'm not here to convince someone that doesn't want to use OP that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread! My roommate will not even use cruise control. He hates OP, although what he really complains about is the Genesis' adaptive cruise control which as we all know doesn't react to cars pulling in front of us as soon or as smoothly as we might like. Oddly, he doesn't complain about how OP steers...I need to call him on that LOL.

On the other hand.... if you like tech, if you like cruise control, if you think wow, LKAS is an amazing feature ... if only it were just better, then this is DEFINITELY something you need to look at as you will be amazed! I really wish folks could drive in a car with this in it. It IS that good and getting better.

But if not, just disregard this entire post ... but be careful, you don't have a copilot

p.s. If you do have OP ... still be careful

 

[dcottrell6]

@84Jeeper I get it, you're like me. I'm a gadget freak and like to mess around with tech.
All of this is amazing stuff and will contribute greatly to automotive safety.

The thing is, when a company like Tesla puts this stuff into their cars, they assume a level of liability that if their software kills someone they can be held accountable.

What happens when someone using OP does the same? Who is responsible? The coder who made the changes to that module?
Yes, the driver is ultimately responsible for the car and what it does.

I can almost guarantee that if your insurance company know you were doing this, they would cancel you.

Maybe it because I'm 62 and a bit more careful when driving than when I used to be, but in all of these years I have never needed a copilot to take driving seriously.
My opinion (Take it for whatever you think it's worth) is that it's irresponsible to be using this on public roads.

 

[SuperKing]

Tesla's system has a disclaimer when you enable it. Tesla isn't responsible if you're not paying attention despite what people believe. Doesn't matter who's system you're using, your steering and brakes still work and you can take over at any time. It doesn't lock you out in any way. If you don't like what the system is doing, just take over. As explained in the past few pages, you are ultimately responsible. If you get into an accident with the system engaged, I'm sure you'll be asked why the hell didn't you take over?

That said, ever since installing the system back in October, I found myself to be more observant. Instead of using most of my brain power on the car in front of me and staying in the lane, I find myself looking 5-10 cars ahead and checking my mirrors a lot more to anticipate what's going to happen. Before installing the system, I look ahead maybe 2-3 cars ahead max and I checked my mirrors only when I needed to change lanes. Driving is really draining on the brain when you think about it. There's a lot of stimuli that you need to take in and the less you have to deal with it, the more ready you are for those emergency situations.

 

[EdP]

Tesla's system has a disclaimer when you enable it. Tesla isn't responsible if you're not paying attention despite what people believe. Doesn't matter who's system you're using, your steering and brakes still work and you can take over at any time. It doesn't lock you out in any way. If you don't like what the system is doing, just take over. As explained in the past few pages, you are ultimately responsible. If you get into an accident with the system engaged, I'm sure you'll be asked why the hell didn't you take over?

That is all true. The problem though, is the driver, not the system. This does seem to have some safeguards in place, a good thing. There is always someone that will find a way to get around them so he can take a nap or grill a steak on the hibachi in the passenger seat. I hope not to meet him on the highway.

 

[84Jeeper]

I think the rear seat hibachi option is restricted to the G90

 

[princelybug]

I'm interested, but the site says it's not compatible with my car.

 

[84Jeeper]

Sad to say but that particular model is not compatible as it has a hydraulic steering unit (It appears that the 2017 G90 is compatible).

For those that look on the Comma website please know that your car may not be listed as compatible. However most Hyundai, Kia , and Genesis ARE compatible. They share an electric motor driven power steering unit that has standardized commands. There has even been success adding OP to cars that only have LDWS.

If you are interested please inquire....

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[Goaterguy]

Sad to say but that particular model is not compatible as it has a hydraulic steering unit (It appears that the 2017 G90 is compatible).

For those that look on the Comma website please know that your car may not be listed as compatible. However most Hyundai, Kia , and Genesis ARE compatible. They share an electric motor driven power steering unit that has standardized commands. There has even been success adding OP to cars that only have LDWS.

If you are interested please inquire....

Hi, I have seen multiple videos of the OpenPilot system and it is an incredible update to the current safety system network of these compatible cars. It even compares well to the Tesla system. There are always going to be negative Nancys that will complain about how bad tech is but OpenPilot even monitors eye movement to ensure the driver is at least looking at the road.
I have seen that the 2018 Genesis G90 doesn't show as a compatible car in the Comma.ai page but is "Community Maintained". Where can I find more info on the G90's compatibility, especially with the new Comma Two? Thanks.

 

[84Jeeper]

Head over to Discord and look in the HKG group (Hyundai, Kia, Genesis). The 2018 G90 should be supported as I believe it has electric power steering. I did take a pic of a 2017 at one time. But the smart folks there will know. Additionally Comma is starting to officially support HKG so it should become much easier to get you up and running!

Hopefully this link will get you there....
Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

 

[SuperKing]

If anyone's interested, here's a video of me tuning the setup over the weekend in the rain. The stock LKAS probably wouldn't have even worked let alone keep the car centered. Newer versions are supposed to autotune but being in IT, I'm always at least a version or two behind. Official support has been announced as well so no more DIY harnesses, you can get them from Comma but no date has been announced. The code for Hyundai, Kia and Genesis has been implemented into the official build for upcoming version 0.7.5

Realtime version

 

[84Jeeper]

...which in short means...it's going to be easier than ever to let your Genesis do the driving....

And the driving is getting better and better!!!

On a side note I was driving up I15 a couple of days ago and traffic came to a stop in the middle of the desert. After a couple of medivacs took off we got going again. Looked like a single car left the roadway and rolled over. I thought, you know likely the driver was distracted or sleepy...if OP had been on board the accident likely would not have happened as it would have kept the car on the road.

 

[Goaterguy]

I drove down to FL this week (420 miles) in a non OP car and all I could think of was in how much enjoyable the ride would have been with OP.

 

[Richard Mississauga]

Disclaimer: I am a certified old fart..... and I have the paperwork to prove it.

Question (rhetorical) - What ever happened to the joy of driving? I have had fast cars, fancy cars, techie heaven cars (think G80), etc. and I enjoyed them all....

Sitting on my butt letting a computer have all the fun? ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nope.

 

[84Jeeper]

Oh I do agree!! I like to drive as well, I have a Porsche for fun on road and Jeeps for fun off road! I'm retired law enforcement and I always loved track time in the cruisers for emergency response and pursuit driving (and I was good at it)!

I like OP for it's tech value (it amazes me it can work so well) and for doing (or assisting with) the driving I don't want to do such as stop and go traffic in LA and 5.5 hour trips between CA and UT. It really is so much less tiring, actually surprisingly so.

...and it feels so luxurious having the car drive you...even if you do have to watch.

 

[Goaterguy]

Disclaimer: I am a certified old fart..... and I have the paperwork to prove it.

Question (rhetorical) - What ever happened to the joy of driving? I have had fast cars, fancy cars, techie heaven cars (think G80), etc. and I enjoyed them all....

Sitting on my butt letting a computer have all the fun? ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nope.

To me, joy of driving may have a different meaning. Driving my 124 Spider through curvy country roads with the top down, driving my Wrangler without the top or doors through slow 35 mph roads around or off-road through service roads and getting some ice cream after brings us joy.

Driving 420 miles in a straight highway dealing with idiots jumping in front of you for no apparent reason, ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, nope...

 

[SuperKing]

Disclaimer: I am a certified old fart..... and I have the paperwork to prove it.

Question (rhetorical) - What ever happened to the joy of driving? I have had fast cars, fancy cars, techie heaven cars (think G80), etc. and I enjoyed them all....

Sitting on my butt letting a computer have all the fun? ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nope.

Different car for different purposes. Fun weekend getaway? I have my MR2 Turbo... for the daily grind and week long road trips, that's what the Genesis is for. Think of how many times you're on a long road trip and someone in the car yells "Check that out!". Well, now you can actually check it out instead of concentrating on keeping the car in the lane. I can't tell you how many things I've missed out on because I was driving.

I bought the Genesis as a cruiser and it's finally fulfilling that role. If I'm on a trip and there's a particularly nice road that I want to drive myself (That stretch of I-15 through Arizona comes to mind), just don't engage OpenPilot. It gives you more options!

 

[SuperKing]

Official harnesses announced today. No more DIY harness required. With the harness available, it's pretty much plug and play now.