ATP (average transaction price) and many of the other statistics are above are pure mumbo jumbo. A
comparably equipped Accord or Camry costs thousands more than a Sonata. Period. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying. That is why Sonata is doing so well in the marketplace (however, it still trails the Camry, Accord, and Altima sales in the US for 2013). Same is true for Genesis. A comparably equipped car that competes with a Genesis (size, power, features) is usually at least 10-15K more expensive to purchase, which is why it outsells
Infiniti M (although I only see the R-Spec as direct competition to the M, for several reasons).
Totally expected you would belabor a point that is pretty cut and dry.
ATP and all the other stats are not
"mumbo jumbo" as you say - but concrete data as to opposed what you have proferred - nothing but your typical high horse, erroneous opinion.
I actually gave specifics as to why your previous post - was filled w/ misinformation/errors...
Yes, Hyundai sells a lot of cars in NY "Metro Area" because there are a lot of poor people there, and having a very small car is sometimes a big benefit. Upper middle class people do not buy Hyundai's, at least not until recently with the Genesis, Equus, and others that are starting to be acceptable from a status point of view. I am not so sure how many people in the US would buy the Genesis if it were priced the same as they charge for it in Canada or in Korea (even taking into account the additional options on the Korean versions).
...but your modus operandi is to just dismiss it (b/c you deem it so) and again, proffer nothing but
your opinion.
You state that
Hyundai sells a lot of cars in NY "Metro Area" because there are a lot of poor people there, and having a very small car is sometimes a big benefit.
Except, as already pointed out, the Sonata (and not something like the Accent) is the top seller for Hyundai in NYC and is the 4th best selling car in NYC (ahead of the Camry).
Evidently, the Sonata is not a
very small car - so you're already wrong on that account (and even if Hyundai sells a lot of Accents, other compacts like the Corolla and Versa can be had for a lot cheaper).
Furthermore, Sonata buyers/owners are no more "poorer" than buyers/owners of the Accord, Camry, Altima and Fusion.
In fact, Sonata owners had the 2nd highest median income ($72k) and the highest median FICO score (734) in 2012.
Sonata owners are not
very poor - unless you want to argue having a median income of
$72k as being that (and if that's the case - then it's even more so that Camry buyers are
poor).
And your dismissing of
ATP as
mumbo jumbo (just b/c it places huge holes in your attempted argument) is simply laughable.
ATP is real world data which shows what people are actually paying for (on avg.) w/ regard to a particular model of vehicle.
Sure comparably equipped, the Sonata is a bit cheaper than say, a Camry, but considering the amount of incentives that Toyota is pumping into the Camry, Hyundai actually has fatter margins.
And the fatter margins are even more so since a higher % of Sonata buyers end up purchasing higher trim models w/ all the bells and whistles - which means they are
spending more $$ than the typical Camry buyer - hence the higher ATP.
What's the difference btwn Nissan having higher prices but then having the highest incentive spending (aside from Chrysler) and Nissan cutting prices across the board (as they did a couple of months ago) but at the same time cutting back on incentive spending?
Nothing - since the outcome when it comes to the price paid out the door is virtually the same.
Aside from the ATP of the Elantra being $1,500 higher than for the Corolla, Corolla owners trail Elantra owners a good bit when it comes to the % w/ a college degree, median income and FICO scores.
So - you've been wrong in asserting that Hyundai buyers in NYC purchase
very small cars and that thusly, Hyundai buyers in NYC are
very poor.
Also wrong in carelessly dismissing ATP - what does it matter what the list price is when Sonata buyers end up spending more $$ (a couple of thousand more on avg.) than Camry buyers?
Also wrong in stating that the pricing diff. is in thousands for a comparably equipped Sonata and Camry.
As for the Sonata trailing Camry, Accord and Altima in sales - it's b/c Hyundai doesn't have the capacity.
For 2012, the Sonata and Optima combined outsold all mainstream midsize sedans but for the Camry, and taking into account fleet sales, outsold the Camry in retail (tho the overall retail leader would still be the Accord).
Hyundai and Kia's US manufacturing together brings them close to what the Japanese big 3 can produce in NA, but even then, the Japanese big 3 can build more Camrys, Accords and Altimas than what H/K can build of the Sonata and Optima together.
This is the same problem Ford is having w/ the Fusion; right now, Fusion sales are constrained by supply. However, once Ford starts Fusion production at Flat Rock to go along with production in Mexico, Ford will have the capacity to outsell the Accord (which they will likely do) and maybe even the Camry (depending on whether Toyota continues to ramp up incentive spending on the Camry and dumping them into rental fleet).
Based on your premise, the previous Kia Optima should have been a huge seller since it truly was much cheaper than the other midsizers and present Optima should have seen a decrease in sales b/c the Optima saw a huge jump in price.
Not the case - Optima buyers are plopping down $6k more on the current model than for the previous model and sales volume has gone thru the roof; previously, the best sales year for the Optima was 53k but for this year, the Optima is on track to sell over 300k.
As for the Genesis (which really has nothing to do about
poor people buying very small cars) - yes, it undercuts the Japanese by quite a bit but that's b/c it's a
new entrant (just like how the Lexus LS400 launched w/ the rock bottom starting MSRP of $35k) and one at that which is not being sold under a luxury brand and separate dealer network (all covered a no. of times before).
Even w/ the expected price hike for the 2G Genesis, Hyundai will still have to undercut the Japanese (well, Lexus and
Infiniti) b/c they simply won't be able to charge for things which they are not providing - a luxury
badge and dealer network (which tacks on about $6-9k to the price depending on the segment).
And if things were as simple as having cheaper pricing, then the LS should substantially outsell the S Class (still being $20k cheaper) and the
Infiniti G would be the best selling RWD model among the entry-level luxury sedans.
