Car won't stop; Internal ABS Brake Module Fault $2,230

[jasonsw]

My car won't stop even if I step on the brake 'pedal to the metal' all the way down...

I told this to my Service Advisor back in Dec 2012 and again on May 2013. In Dec 2012, techs weren't able to 'duplicate' the issue.

In May 2013, Service Advisor found factory 'campaign' (recall?) and replaced the brake fluid. It seemed fine for awhile but it's acting up again.

For example, I am at complete stop when I wait to make a left turn as the light turns Yellow at the intersection. I try to turn quickly (accelerate) and sometimes it trips the ESC (Electronic Stability Control) and the car won't stop at next stop.

In another instance, I turn right SHARPLY and ACCELERATE FAST to go onto the Freeway ramp to merge onto the Freeway. As I was getting off the freeway after traveling 10 mins to my Hyundai dealer, the car won't stop. Yes, 10 mins. When this happens, I first try to stop the car, then I shift into Parking and shift back Drive again then the brake pads seem to pop up and starts to work again...

I took it again to the dealer service center and this time, they were able to 'duplicate' the braking issue and it was concluded that "The vehicle is not safe to drive"

This time they found the problem to be Internal ABS Brake Module Fault and it will charge me $2,230 + $291 (front brake pads).

Service Advisor said, "Sorry but this warranty ran out at 60,000 miles and you now have 65,000 miles."

Unbelievable. I brought this issue up at least 2 times since Dec 2012 and this is what I am told?

Even when they performed this "factory campaign" (recall) I had 60.440 miles.

I fear for my safety and public's safety. I want your input. I am thinking of contacting Hyundai America to see what can be done...


BTW, I find it interesting that it would give me a Multi-Point Inspection Report with Green section circled that I have more than 6mm Brake Pads (remaining?) as recently as 10 weeks ago. Now suddenly I need to replace my front brake pads?

 

[homeofstone]

You should not have a problem with warranty since it is documented that the failure was beginning before 60k miles. Get all your paperwork together and talk with the service manager not the advisor. If that does not work have the service manager call Hyundai with you in the room and have the conversation with Hyundai together. Make sure you have all your documentation on when the problem was reported and dealer's written comments at the time.

 

[shagnat]

My car won't stop even if I step on the brake 'pedal to the metal' all the way down...

I told this to my Service Advisor back in Dec 2012 and again on May 2013. In Dec 2012, techs weren't able to 'duplicate' the issue.

In May 2013, Service Advisor found factory 'campaign' (recall?) and replaced the brake fluid. It seemed fine for awhile but it's acting up again.

For example, I am at complete stop when I wait to make a left turn as the light turns Yellow at the intersection. I try to turn quickly (accelerate) and sometimes it trips the ESC (Electronic Stability Control) and the car won't stop at next stop.

In another instance, I turn right SHARPLY and ACCELERATE FAST to go onto the Freeway ramp to merge onto the Freeway. As I was getting off the freeway after traveling 10 mins to my Hyundai dealer, the car won't stop. Yes, 10 mins. When this happens, I first try to stop the car, then I shift into Parking and shift back Drive again then the brake pads seem to pop up and starts to work again...

I took it again to the dealer service center and this time, they were able to 'duplicate' the braking issue and it was concluded that "The vehicle is not safe to drive"

This time they found the problem to be Internal ABS Brake Module Fault and it will charge me $2,230 + $291 (front brake pads).

Service Advisor said, "Sorry but this warranty ran out at 60,000 miles and you now have 65,000 miles."

Unbelievable. I brought this issue up at least 2 times since Dec 2012 and this is what I am told?

Even when they performed this "factory campaign" (recall) I had 60.440 miles.

I fear for my safety and public's safety. I want your input. I am thinking of contacting Hyundai America to see what can be done...


BTW, I find it interesting that it would give me a Multi-Point Inspection Report with Green section circled that I have more than 6mm Brake Pads (remaining?) as recently as 10 weeks ago. Now suddenly I need to replace my front brake pads?

Having your own documentation is a good thing, but, the dealership should have all of that for you. Just sayin'........

 

[Mark_888]

You should first file a complaint here:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Then send a certified letter to Hyundai Motor America, and follow up with phone calls. It would be a good idea if you are able to get a consumer affairs reporter (at a local TV station) to assist you, and make sure you have documentation of all the other people on this forum who have had the same problem.

 

[Southern Boy]

When I had the brake fluid changed out on my Genesis I asked my Technician if the TB Hyundai issued was due to the reported brake failure / fading reported.

He said no that Hyundai just decided that DOT 4 synthetic was the correct brake fluid for these vehicles.

He went on to explain that the intermittent failures and fading brake problems was traced back to the ABS units. It seems that some of these ABS units had air bubbles internally and no matter how many times they were bled all of the air bubbles couldn’t be removed, so the policy was just to replace them when there was complaints of intermittent brake failure / fading.

This could be the problem. I have posted this on another thread on this site detailing these braking problems, but what my technician told me about the ABS unit problem was the first time I heard this explanation
__________________

 

[Mark_888]

When I had the brake fluid changed out on my Genesis I asked my Technician if the TB Hyundai issued was due to the reported brake failure / fading reported.

He said no that Hyundai just decided that DOT 4 synthetic was the correct brake fluid for these vehicles.

He went on to explain that the intermittent failures and fading brake problems was traced back to the ABS units. It seems that some of these ABS units had air bubbles internally and no matter how many times they were bled all of the air bubbles couldn’t be removed, so the policy was just to replace them when there was complaints of intermittent brake failure / fading.

This could be the problem. I have posted this on another thread on this site detailing these braking problems, but what my technician told me about the ABS unit problem was the first time I heard this explanation
__________________

It does not appear to me that most dealers will "to replace them when there was complaints of intermittent brake failure / fading." It looks like most dealers (as mentioned on this and other threads) will only replace them if they can reproduce the problem. Unless something is done about that, I will never buy another Hyundai again, and I worry about my own car.

I kind of wonder about the air bubble explanation, since the problem does not usually show up for several years. Maybe they develop air bubbles later, but doesn't sound like they are shipped from factory that way by the vendor.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

I took it again to the dealer service center and this time, they were able to 'duplicate' the braking issue and it was concluded that "The vehicle is not safe to drive"

This time they found the problem to be Internal ABS Brake Module Fault and it will charge me $2,230 + $291 (front brake pads).

Wow, I feel your pain. The ABS module on my old car and my Mom's car both died (same kind of car). In our cases, it was just the computer component and not the mechanical side of the ABS module. BMW wanted about $2,500 for a replacement ABS, and they would not sell the computer component separately. However, it was easy to buy the Bosch part separately for about 1/3 the cost and install it myself. So I did.

Since you had this problem in their system for a while, my hunch is that Hyundai will cover it. It will just take some sweat equity on your part. Unfortunately, the quote for the replacement is consistent with the market.

 

[Mark_888]

Wow, I feel your pain. The ABS module on my old car and my Mom's car both died (same kind of car).

Did that cause brake failure while driving?

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Did that cause brake failure while driving?

No, it was the opposite. The ABS, traction control, and dynamic stability control features simply disabled, but the brakes continued to operate normally.

The OP's symptom is very bizarre, because brake systems and ABS systems are designed with multiple physical and logical redundancies so that total brake failure should never occur. Something very wrong and very unusual is happening if an ABS system is causing an intermittent total brake failure. My hunch is that this will work itself out quickly and quietly the moment Hyundai USA hears about it. If they are smart, they will want to do a lessons learned analysis to understand what really happened. The fact that the problem was reported long before the warranty ended will probably fast-path it through their escalation process.

 

[jasonsw]

I heard back from it about 4 hours ago... So here it goes......

Slap in the face... I will just have to drive like a 'granny' very slowly and with a lot of distance to stop infront of me in case the brake fails...

Seems like I will have to tap into my savings. With holiday season coming up, this can never be good... OR simply sell it and walk away as I am done paying for this car; free and clear...

Sigh............................



Dear Jason:

Thank you for contacting Hyundai Motor America. We are sorry to learn of the difficulty you have experienced with your ABS Module; however, we appreciate the opportunity to clarify warranty coverage for your 2009 Genesis.

The ABS Module in your 2009 Genesis is covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty (NVLW) for a period of 5 years from the date of original retail delivery or the date of first use or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. This warranty covers defects in factory parts or workmanship only, as determined by an authorized Hyundai dealership. Additional warranty information may be found in your Owner?s Handbook.

The in-service date for your 2009 Genesis is 1/14/2009, so your New Vehicle Warranty Coverage was in effect until 1/14/2014 or 60,000 miles, whichever occurred first. Based on the mileage of your 2009 Genesis, this warranty has lapsed and will no longer cover the cost of any needed repairs to the ABS Module. We apologize for any disappointment this may cause.

The factory campaign that was completed on your Genesis in May 2013, was specifically associated with the brake fluid in the system, and did not include the ABS Module.

We definitely want you to feel safe in your Genesis. Our factory-trained technicians are the best-trained and most-qualified to repair your Genesis to our specifications. They will also be able to answer any questions you have on the specifics of the parts to set your mind at ease on the reliability of your repaired vehicle.

We have documented your comments regarding warranty coverage for your 2009 Genesis. You can also reach us by calling our toll-free customer service number at 877-378-8727. Our Hours of Operation are 5:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Pacific Time Monday through Friday and 6:30 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Pacific Time Saturday & Sunday. Your case number can be referenced if we can provide further assistance.

Thank you for being a valued member of the Hyundai family and for contacting Hyundai Motor America.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Vermillion3]

Not a mention of your prior reports of this problem prior to the warranty lapse....I would not give up so easily especially with the amount of money involved. They (dealer)have record of you bringing this to their attention prior to the failure. Like mentioned before I would press this issue with the Service Manager and Hyundai corporate. That is unacceptable to tell you that now that the part has finally failed to a certain degree that they acknowledge it, its your problem not theirs.

 

[WowCool]

As you have All the documentation I would call the BBB.. let them get involved.
They have powerful connections...................

 

[shagnat]

As you have All the documentation I would call the BBB.. let them get involved.
They have powerful connections...................

Ha! Unless the BBB is way different where you live, it's a joke. At least in my state, the BBB only cares if you pay them their annual dues. Otherwise they don't give a rat's behind nor do they have any power. Hopefully it's different in your area.

 

[Vermillion3]

Ha! Unless the BBB is way different where you live, it's a joke. At least in my state, the BBB only cares if you pay them their annual dues. Otherwise they don't give a rat's behind nor do they have any power. Hopefully it's different in your area.

+1 ^ BBB is a freaking joke zero help.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

I heard back from it about 4 hours ago... So here it goes......

Slap in the face... I will just have to drive like a 'granny' very slowly and with a lot of distance to stop infront of me in case the brake fails...

Did HMA understand that you had this car in for this problem two times prior to the warranty expiration, and that it is clearly documented in the service tickets? Did they understand that twice, their "best-trained and most-qualified" factory-trained technicians failed to diagnose and repair the problem when the car was in warranty and only diagnosed it after the warranty had expired? If not, then I would pursue that route. If HMA acknowledges that the car was in their hands twice for this issue prior to warranty expiration, then you have a small foothold. After that, then they can easily take two potential paths: 1) Oops, our bad, we should have fixed it before, we will fix it now; or 2) Sorry sir, you are screwed, we are choosing to screw you.

 

[WowCool]

+1 ^ BBB is a freaking joke zero help.

Sorry guys No Way.............
always had a ++Positive experience with my local BBB
(they had my Lemon 2012 Passat replaced with a 2013 Top range Passat within 48hours.....) The local VW dealer just laughed at the issues and said "it's part of the fun VW ownership experience..
Also go online @ the Hyundai Twitter or Facebook pages...Post a respectful but honest outline of your issues..
Write a letter & FAX it to The CEO - Hyundai Corp...
Call Hyundai they will give you the Corp Fax number........

 

[homeofstone]

Well it looks like you did not go first to the Serv. Manage with your documents and talk with him. You got HMA involved without them having documentation in writing from dealer and you. The dealer may have been able to help you, but now I'm not so sure. Still I recommend going to the Serv. Manager and try to solve the problem locally before getting HMA involved anymore.

 

[Mark_888]

No, it was the opposite. The ABS, traction control, and dynamic stability control features simply disabled, but the brakes continued to operate normally.

The OP's symptom is very bizarre, because brake systems and ABS systems are designed with multiple physical and logical redundancies so that total brake failure should never occur. Something very wrong and very unusual is happening if an ABS system is causing an intermittent total brake failure. My hunch is that this will work itself out quickly and quietly the moment Hyundai USA hears about it. If they are smart, they will want to do a lessons learned analysis to understand what really happened. The fact that the problem was reported long before the warranty ended will probably fast-path it through their escalation process.

Maybe you are not aware, but numerous other members of this forum have experienced the same complete brake failure as OP of this thread. Most of them eventually had the ABS module replaced to fix the problem (if they could get the dealer to replicate the failure). HMA knows about it, and they have chosen to only fix the problem if the car is still under warranty, and if the dealer can reproduce the problem. Since the problem is intermittent (at least initially) that is a very dangerous proposition.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Maybe you are not aware, but numerous other members of this forum have experienced the same complete brake failure as OP of this thread. Most of them eventually had the ABS module replaced to fix the problem (if they could get the dealer to replicate the failure). HMA knows about it, and they have chosen to only fix the problem if the car is still under warranty, and if the dealer can reproduce the problem. Since the problem is intermittent (at least initially) that is a very dangerous proposition.

No, I had not seen any of those posts before? Who makes the ABS module for the Genesis-- it is under the fuse box, so I cannot see the manufacturer's sticker without taking tons of stuff apart.

My old car was a Bosch ABS module, and the failure was common there too. BMW did not replace many, because they typically happened just at the end of the warranty.

 

[Mark_888]

No, I had not seen any of those posts before? Who makes the ABS module for the Genesis-- it is under the fuse box, so I cannot see the manufacturer's sticker without taking tons of stuff apart.

My old car was a Bosch ABS module, and the failure was common there too. BMW did not replace many, because they typically happened just at the end of the warranty.

I would not expect a manufacturer to replace the ABS units out of warranty, unless it was a safety problem, such as complete brake failure. As you stated, the BMW's with ABS problems did not have brake failures like the Genesis is having.

I would not be thrilled about having to spend $2230 for a new ABS system that failed out of warranty (in three months for me), but my main concern is that the brakes may fail, causing other damage and/or injuries. If this were Toyota, it would be front page news in every newspaper.