Why Rebadge trunk lid?

[jimb100]

I did not leave out half the options. The site you visited went over the top on the MB options, many of which are not available on Genesis. Even if the Driver Assistance Package is added, that is only $1,925 more, since the non-active Blind Spot Assist and Lane Keeping Assist is redundant and should be removed. Also, I think the MB Driver Assistance Package has stuff Genesis does not have.

With regard to wheels, the 18" wheels are standard on the Genesis 3.8 (even the Ultimate). There is no 19" wheel upgrade on 3.8 Ultimate. The standard wheels on the smaller MB E class are 17". No need to upgrade them to larger wheels IMO. However, when the Sport Styling Package is selected on the E350 (no additional cost) it does come with 18" wheels, as well as some other stuff.

I think part of the problem is that website you visited to price the E350 has some errors (doesn't remove redundant packages when both are selected) and included a lot of options that the Genesis 3.8 does not have.

With regard to cost of repairs outside of warranty, that is good point, but that is a different subject. The MB warranty is 4 years or 50K miles, and if one kept the car longer than cost of repairs would be an issue. I don't know how much the MB extended warranty is, but how many people who buy a Genesis 3.8 Ultimate will keep it past 4 years?

I never said that the MB E class is a better deal than the 2015 Genesis. Obviously, with a Hyundai you are getting more for your money than with MB, where you are paying for the brand name. But I still think a $77,125 comp is a ridiculous number to use for the E class.

No one buys a MB because it is the best deal based on features/options for the money. They buy it at least partially for the brand name and image. When someone sees what car one is driving, they don't know exactly what options are in the car, and they make judgments based on brand name and model alone (not based on every single option inside the car). I personally don't care about image, which is why I have a Genesis and am a member of this forum. But it would be silly to say that "most" people do not care about image, otherwise the MB E class would not outsell the Genesis sedan in the USA by a pretty wide margin even though E Class costs more (but not as much more as you claim IMO due to increase in 2015 Genesis prices).

Part of the problem is that Mercedes doesn't have a car that competes directly against a Genesis 5.0 Ultimate until you get up to the S class. The E class certainly doesn't.

Frankly, at the risk of insulting some here, the Genesis 3.8 is a hodgepodge of different packages that attempt to give the car one foot in the traditional Hyundai market and the other in the upscale, luxury car market. Granted, the 3.8 with the Ultimate package makes for a nice luxury car in every area except the motor. But that's a big part of the luxury experience today and has been forever. Makes a great commuter car, but that's a different story.

If they sell some cars that way, good for them. The buyers are getting nice cars but a compromised luxury car experience, even with the Ultimate package. That luxury car experience is only to be found in the 5.0 Ultimate and that's the car that should be compared to the large cars in the Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Jaguar and Audi lineups.

I just don't see it making much sense to compare the Genesis 3.8 with a Lexus GS, Audi A6, Infiniti G37, etc. Sure, if you put everything on the Genesis 3.8 and nothing on a GS the prices are similar, but that doesn't really tell you anything about either car.

If you're saying some people buy stripped Mercedes just so people see them in a Benz, so what? I don't see what that has to do with the discussion.

 

[ksoze]

I don't see what that has to do with the discussion.

None of this really has anything to do with a rebadged trunk lid, but I believe you started it on page 2 by asking, "What German equivalent can you get for only $20k more?". That probably needs another separate thread.

 

[Mark_888]

If you're saying some people buy stripped Mercedes just so people see them in a Benz, so what? I don't see what that has to do with the discussion.

The MB E350 that I configured was very well equipped (not stripped).

 

[Mark_888]

This doesn't make any sense. Either option up the Mercedes when comparing apples to apples or if "well equipped" is the standard then don't compare it to an ultimate trim of the Hyundai in the first place.

It is "optioned up" as close as I could get it. The claimed $77,125 comp was just flat out wrong, probably the fault of the Edmonds configurator. I used the MB configurator.

 

[Mark_888]

Now if all they did was require at least 1 or 2 Genesis/Equus "specialists" per dealer, semi-partition the showroom, require loaners, and have a unified Hyundai-premium badge. Which (to contradict Mark888's fatuous assertion yet again) could definitely say Hyundai on it -- that might be an ideal mix for most people.

Now what are you blaming me for? If the car is sold as a Hyundai Genesis, I would expect it to have a Hyundai logo on it somewhere, right? If it is sold as Genesis BH380 (or whatever, as they do in Korea) then it can be sold as a Genesis brand with the wings (Genesis logo). Lincoln's are sold as a Lincoln brand, even though they are made by Ford, and some dealers sell both (mostly in smaller towns).

 

[anythingbutgrey]

This doesn't make any sense. Either option up the Mercedes when comparing apples to apples or if "well equipped" is the standard then don't compare it to an ultimate trim of the Hyundai in the first place.

The other issue with comparing the E class to a Genesis is that the E class is now quite an old model - introduced in 2009 as a 2010 model year. Having driven both cars, I would say that the driving dynamics of the 2015 genesis are considerably better than the current e class. That said, I expect when the new E class is introduced (2015 for 2016 model year) it may well be a different story.

 

[jimb100]

The MB E350 that I configured was very well equipped (not stripped).

Well equipped compared to what? A 'base' E 350 that no one in this country has ever seen?

 

[jimb100]

None of this really has anything to do with a rebadged trunk lid, but I believe you started it on page 2 by asking, "What German equivalent can you get for only $20k more?". That probably needs another separate thread.

You need to reread this thread. I didn't 'start' anything. I was responding to a poster who made the '$20k' comment.

 

[ksoze]

Relax Jim - the Genesis is a bargain and clearly less than similar German cars. The exact amount is very dependent on what one perceives as a close competitor, but a similar German sedan (BMW, MB, Audi) can be close to $20K and easily more.

An example was just posted in the reviews thread from Autoweek's 2015 3.8 review notes. Their digital editor Andrew Stoy remarked, "If there’s one “but” that remains with the Genesis it’s the fact that it’s a $52,500 Hyundai. Don’t get me wrong -- the Genesis feels like a bargain at $52K: I optioned an equivalent 5-series and ended up at $68K and change. But how important is value to this shopper?

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-38-sedan-review-notes#sthash.EryAfq7t.dpuf"

 

[Mark_888]

Well equipped compared to what? A 'base' E 350 that no one in this country has ever seen?

A base MB E350 is $52,825 including transportation charge. I explained in a post above exactly how I configured the MB to $64,025. I don't know where the $77,125 price came from, but obviously not accurate. The MB configuration below is superior to the Genesis 3.8 Ultimate (which is $49,950):

• Collision Prevention Assist (this is actually standard)
• Driver Assistance Package ($2,800)
  
  [*]DISTRONIC PLUS® with Steering Assist
  [*]BAS® PLUS with Cross-Traffic Assist
  [*]PRE-SAFE® Brake with Pedestrian Recognition
  [*]PRE-SAFE® PLUS
  [*]Active Blind Spot Assist
  [*]Active Lane Keeping Assist​
• Premium Package 1 ($3,870)
  
  [*]80GB hard-drive Navigation
  [*]10GB Music Register
  [*]harman/kardon LOGIC7® surround-sound system with Dolby Digital 5.1
  [*]Gracenote® media database
  [*]SiriusXM Radio with 6-month All Access trial
  [*]SiriusXM Traffic and Weather with 6 months of service
  [*]Enhanced Voice Control
  [*]Heated front seats
  [*]Power rear-window sunshade
  [*]Rear view camera​
• Active ventilated front seats ($450)
• Leather seats with real wood trim ($1,620)
• Metallic Paint ($720)
• Keyless Start ($650)
• Panaroma roof ($1090)
• Sport Package - 18" wheels, Sport Trim, Sport suspension (no charge)

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[jimb100]

Relax Jim - the Genesis is a bargain and clearly less than similar German cars. The exact amount is very dependent on what one perceives as a close competitor, but a similar German sedan (BMW, MB, Audi) can be close to $20K and easily more.

An example was just posted in the reviews thread from Autoweek's 2015 3.8 review notes. Their digital editor Andrew Stoy remarked, "If there’s one “but” that remains with the Genesis it’s the fact that it’s a $52,500 Hyundai. Don’t get me wrong -- the Genesis feels like a bargain at $52K: I optioned an equivalent 5-series and ended up at $68K and change. But how important is value to this shopper?

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-38-sedan-review-notes#sthash.EryAfq7t.dpuf"

Its really not a matter of the prestige to the buyer. That negates any comparison. To some, a $110k 911 is $50k better than a Corvette that outperforms it in every category. A Bugatti Veryon is $900k more than the Porsche.

For comparison purposes 'suitability for purpose' allows comparisons for the purpose of establishing value.

As a luxury car, highway cruiser, quiet and comfortable around town transportation. A Corvette or a Miata or a minivan is not directly comparable.

So what is? I submit that if comparing full size luxury cars, the comparison is the Genesis V8 Ultimate to the S class, the Audi A8, the Lexus 460, and the Infiniti Q70. In this class the 3.8 is not appropriate and I'm really not interested in comparing the 3.8 to the E350, A6, GS350 or the 535.

Most claim to be sportier than the 3.8 and that's probably true. That's why I think the 3.8 is great value for someone wanting a large, comfortable car for commuting or for someone who doesn't care about HP, but its not a direct competitor for large luxury cars.

The spec sheet says the Genesis V8 Ultimate is a fantastic value, and I believe it is. I also believe that as the word gets out the price will rise and the resale value will improve. Time will tell.

 

[jimb100]

A base MB E350 is $52,825 including transportation charge. I explained in a post above exactly how I configured the MB to $64,025. I don't know where the $77,125 price came from, but obviously not accurate. The MB configuration below is superior to the Genesis 3.8 Ultimate (which is $49,950):

• Collision Prevention Assist (this is actually standard)
• Driver Assistance Package ($2,800)
  
  [*]DISTRONIC PLUS® with Steering Assist
  [*]BAS® PLUS with Cross-Traffic Assist
  [*]PRE-SAFE® Brake with Pedestrian Recognition
  [*]PRE-SAFE® PLUS
  [*]Active Blind Spot Assist
  [*]Active Lane Keeping Assist​
• Premium Package 1 ($3,870)
  
  [*]80GB hard-drive Navigation
  [*]10GB Music Register
  [*]harman/kardon LOGIC7® surround-sound system with Dolby Digital 5.1
  [*]Gracenote® media database
  [*]SiriusXM Radio with 6-month All Access trial
  [*]SiriusXM Traffic and Weather with 6 months of service
  [*]Enhanced Voice Control
  [*]Heated front seats
  [*]Power rear-window sunshade
  [*]Rear view camera​
• Active ventilated front seats ($450)
• Leather seats with real wood trim ($1,620)
• Metallic Paint ($720)
• Keyless Start ($650)
• Panaroma roof ($1090)
• Sport Package - 18" wheels, Sport Trim, Sport suspension (no charge)

At this point, can you sum up the point you're trying to make?

It sure sounds like you're saying the Benz is a better deal than the Genesis.

If that's your point, you're on the wrong forum.

 

[Mark_888]

At this point, can you sum up the point you're trying to make?

It sure sounds like you're saying the Benz is a better deal than the Genesis.

If that's your point, you're on the wrong forum.

From a feature/function point of view, the Genesis is definitely a better deal than the MB. That's why I own a Genesis and why I am a member of this forum. However, the comparable MB E350 is not anywhere near $77,125 as claimed.

 

[DFWGenny]

From a feature/function point of view, the Genesis is definitely a better deal than the MB. That's why I own a Genesis and why I am a member of this forum. However, the comparable MB E350 is not anywhere near $77,125 as claimed.

Just out of curiosity, is a fully decked out MB E350 (all options) closer to the $72K and the "journalist" failed to compare "apple to apples"?

 

[DFWGenny]

So what is? I submit that if comparing full size luxury cars, the comparison is the Genesis V8 Ultimate to the S class, the Audi A8, the Lexus 460, and the Infiniti Q70. In this class the 3.8 is not appropriate and I'm really not interested in comparing the 3.8 to the E350, A6, GS350 or the 535.

Most claim to be sportier than the 3.8 and that's probably true. That's why I think the 3.8 is great value for someone wanting a large, comfortable car for commuting or for someone who doesn't care about HP, but its not a direct competitor for large luxury cars.

The spec sheet says the Genesis V8 Ultimate is a fantastic value, and I believe it is. I also believe that as the word gets out the price will rise and the resale value will improve. Time will tell.

I think Hyundai is positioning the Genesis to be a MB E-class plus. We are only seeing the opening salvo. I would think that they are working on an R-spec that would give the level of performance that you now see in the MB/BMW/Audi. Car and Driver doesn't rate the Cadillac CTS #2 for Mid-size Luxury cars because of it's base model. Genesis is rated #6 without a true performance option. Where would it be with an R-spec option?

With that, the continuum would be:

• Genesis R-spec (performance)
• Genesis 3.8 (entry luxury)
• Genesis 5.0 (full luxury)

This would cover the MB E-class and touch the S-class. To compete with the S-class, Hyundai is tuning up Gen2 Equus

 

[DFWGenny]

To all those that say Hyundai needs to create a Luxury brand, I say hogwash!

I think Hyundai is using Mercedes as a model. We do not see it in the US, but in Europe, MB sells a full spectrum of cars under the MB brand. I can't say as to how they are sold, are there dealers that only deal with economy cars vs. luxury. I can't say. In the US, we only see the luxury cars and make that association.

I don't know why it is badged differently in Korea than in the US, I don't care. I don't feel the need to rebadge my car. If the dealer did it, I wouldn't put up a fuss.

If people are going to look down at me because I drive a Hyundai, it says more about them than it does about me. I'm an engineer and the new Genesis exceeded my requirements and came in under budget. When does that happen?

 

[ksoze]

I'm an engineer and the new Genesis exceeded my requirements and came in under budget. When does that happen?

Virtually never. Agree the Genesis clearly exceeded the medias expectations and likely was a proud moment for those who worked on it over the last several years brining it to market.

 

[JeffSea40]

OK, Ginger or Mary Ann?

To each his own ...

 

[Mark_888]

Just out of curiosity, is a fully decked out MB E350 (all options) closer to the $72K and the "journalist" failed to compare "apple to apples"?

It's hard to figure out because MB doesn't include everything in packages like Hyundai and most other automakers (and you can custom order a MB from the factory). They have a ton of little options that can be added, many of which are not available to USA Genesis.

E350 comes with either 17" or 18" wheels (no extra charge for 18") but has these wheel upgrades:

• 18-inch AMG twin 5-spoke alloy wheels ($500)
• 18-inch 5-double-spoke wheel ($1,910)
• 19-inch 5-double-spoke wheel ($2,400)

Here is a sample of other stuff that can be added:

• Sport (real) wood/leather steering wheel ($590)
• Electronic Trunk Closer ($560)
• Split-folding rear seats ($440)
• Rear Seat Entertainment system ($1,910)
• Parking Assist Package with PARKTRONIC with Active Parking Assist/Exit and Surround View System ($1,290)
• Illuminated Star (hood logo) ($480)

A MB dealer near me has 24 E350's in stock with MSRP range of $56,695 - $63,430. The median MSRP (number 13) is $59,920. Discounts of about $7,000 off MSRP can be had these days due to heavy competition as BMW, MB, and Audi battle for the sales lead in the luxury categories. Some people on this forum have claimed that discounts of $10K off MSRP can be had for this car, but I have no independent knowledge of that. However, discounts on SUV's and crossovers is much less (pretty much all brands).

 

[jimb100]

From a feature/function point of view, the Genesis is definitely a better deal than the MB. That's why I own a Genesis and why I am a member of this forum. However, the comparable MB E350 is not anywhere near $77,125 as claimed.

OK, so all that to say "the Edmunds pricing tool is wrong"?

Good thing electrons are cheap!