Dead pedal / “Engine falls flat” potential fix..

[OneFunGenesis]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

Really? Try flipping the magnets or some duct tape, and see if you get the best of both worlds.

I'm probably not going to mess with it. Whats a horse or two more? haha. Thank you for the suggestion though

I've noticed a slight drop in mpg like 1 over the past 2 days. but that is probably just from my heavy right foot.

Will keep an update on the MPG.

@OneFunGenesis

Did you notice improved performance? Did you notice change in performance once reinstalled?

Yea I definitely did. There was worse throttle response and better MPG's lol

 

[tachophile]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

I finally got around to trying this mod...

I agree, this magnet is far stronger than I expected.

Anyway, I decided to try just removing the magnet carrier, and replace the flapper assembly.

The results: Throttle response is much improved! Since its been raining, I havent gotten to the 'smoke the tires' test. But, I will say its a breath of fresh air!...pun intended.

 

[Youseethefight]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

I finally got around to trying this mod...

I agree, this magnet is far stronger than I expected.

Anyway, I decided to try just removing the magnet carrier, and replace the flapper assembly.

The results: Throttle response is much improved! Since its been raining, I havent gotten to the 'smoke the tires' test. But, I will say its a breath of fresh air!...pun intended.

Good to see someone else with great results as I have.

Please let us know about the "smoke the tires test"

 

[Youseethefight]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

I've driven around in town and notice that there is better real world driving experience by this mod.

Power at 3000rpm and below has increased. As well as better responsiveness.

 

[sluggo]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

I did the magnet mod as well. I added a narrowed felt spacer to the landing zone and slapped a strip of duct tape over it to hold in place. The magnet still has some effect, but barely. To me it feels like almost any vacuum will open the gate.

The real-world driving experience has been greatly improved. To give you an idea, a week after I bought the car, I was bitching to my friends about what I thought was the crap transmission and engine management that caused the car to hesitate so much off the line. When I got the owner survey from Hyundai a couple of weeks after buying the car, I gave them about 900 words on what I thought needed to be fixed, and almost all of it was this hesitation issue. It was by far the biggest let-down of the purchase. I think my summary to one friend was that because of this problem I had "333 of the most useless horses in the world".

Now the car pulls away smartly with no searching or hesitation. I'm still not crazy about the shift points in standard mode, but one stab on the ESC button takes care of that. Too early to tell if my mileage has been affected, but I won't care if it is. The driving experience is much better - I feel more connected to the engine, and the engine feels better connected to the transmission. I suspect I'll be "tuning" this mod as time goes on. For those of you still thinking about it, I'd say you really should try it and see how you like it. It's really easy to do and really easy to go back if you decide it's not for you.

 

[daviderle]

Re: Dead throttle pedal / “Engine falls flat” potential fix..

Feedback copied from the other thread (Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment):

I finally got around to trying this mod...

I agree, this magnet is far stronger than I expected.

Anyway, I decided to try just removing the magnet carrier, and replace the flapper assembly.

The results: Throttle response is much improved! Since its been raining, I havent gotten to the 'smoke the tires' test. But, I will say its a breath of fresh air!...pun intended.

I've driven around in town and notice that there is better real world driving experience by this mod.

Power at 3000rpm and below has increased. As well as better responsiveness.

I did the magnet mod as well. I added a narrowed felt spacer to the landing zone and slapped a strip of duct tape over it to hold in place. The magnet still has some effect, but barely. To me it feels like almost any vacuum will open the gate.

The real-world driving experience has been greatly improved. To give you an idea, a week after I bought the car, I was bitching to my friends about what I thought was the crap transmission and engine management that caused the car to hesitate so much off the line. When I got the owner survey from Hyundai a couple of weeks after buying the car, I gave them about 900 words on what I thought needed to be fixed, and almost all of it was this hesitation issue. It was by far the biggest let-down of the purchase. I think my summary to one friend was that because of this problem I had "333 of the most useless horses in the world".

Now the car pulls away smartly with no searching or hesitation. I'm still not crazy about the shift points in standard mode, but one stab on the ESC button takes care of that. Too early to tell if my mileage has been affected, but I won't care if it is. The driving experience is much better - I feel more connected to the engine, and the engine feels better connected to the transmission. I suspect I'll be "tuning" this mod as time goes on. For those of you still thinking about it, I'd say you really should try it and see how you like it. It's really easy to do and really easy to go back if you decide it's not for you.

I would like for us to keep track of our day to day progress in this thread please, while any theories or technical discussions we can use the other thread (Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment):

http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=14917&page=4

Thanks for all the feedback, you guys are awesome

 

[GRIFF]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

On my 2012 5.0 I experienced a slight reduction in vehicle responsiveness when accelerating to WOT from around 30 - 40 mph. No difference off the line.

I used two felt pads which held the flapper door very slightly open.

I have really never experienced any delay in throttle response with my car.

GRIFF

 

[GRIFF]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

My experience with my 2012 5.0 seemed to have no effect with off the line acceleration. It did seem to actually slow down the down shifting action of the tranny when going WOT from 30 - 40 mph. I have never previously experienced any throttle response lag with my white Genny.

Other than protecting the transmission, I wonder why Hyundai provided this mechanism. I am suspect, however, that there may be other reasons for it.

GRIFF.

 

[amartz]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

I've noticed a slight drop in mpg like 1 over the past 2 days. but that is probably just from my heavy right foot.

At first, it feels good and this may be true. Over time, however, as I got used to the new responsiveness, I found that I don't feel the need to step on it as hard, because it'll "get there" quickly enough without having to nail it. Usually. There were also some roads I drive all the time, where I used to switch to manual and kick it down a gear to get it going, usually just after rounding a 90 degree corner. I don't bother any more, because it comes up quicker, in the right gear now, so I don't feel the need. Bottom line, I think my gas milage is better now. And the average display on the dash usually reads a 1 or 2 higher than it used to, for around town driving.

 

[SoCalGen]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

I'm going to try this on my 2013 3.8 after I get back from vacation. The dead pedal thing is annoying and in a few instances over the last few months, very unsafe. Especially in LA traffic. One question.... has anyone noticed a drop in top end performance? If I punch it on the highway at 70mph will it still accelerate just as hard as before?

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[nsanow]

What I did was to remove each magnet from the flapper assembly. They slide out. Each magnet is encased in its own holder that slips into the flapper assembly. I then reinserted each magnet holder 180 from original. The magnet now pulls through the wall of the magnet holder and not directly magnet to magnet. Sorry, I didn't take any pictures.
This accomplished three things, (1) it won't cause the flapper door to have any gap when closed (2) it cut the magnet force by at least 60% (3) it didn't cost me anything. I first only flipped one of the magnets, but this only seemed to give about 30% less force. If you do only flip one magnet, be sure you also remove the magnet from it's holder and rotate it 180 or you will have incorrect polarity between the two magents. Oh yes...my 3.8 V6 has greatly improved throttle response from a rolling stop. I don't floor it from a dead stop so I can't respond to that issue.

I was so excited to try this as I have a terrible dead pedal issue on my 2012 4.6 but for the life of me I could not get the magnets to slide out. I tried getting a utility knife to pry open, no. I tried a rare earth magnet to try and pull it out, nothing. How did you get the magnets to come out?

I put in some rubber spacers maybe 1/4 inch at best and can tell no difference on the dead pedal. I did have the Uniq rigid collars installed earlier by the local Hyundai dealership for $62 of labor! Shout out to Beaverton Hyundai and Brandon!

 

[BkBlue]

I ended up trying this fix as well -- used thickly layered black electrical tape between the magnet contacts to be less obvious if I forget to remove before a service visit since I am leasing.

I have seen a dramatic improvement in off the line response and overall driving experience.

The magnets on my 2014 5.0 R-Spec are absurdly strong, so much so that I was getting rapid loss of power when rpm dropped below ~1.5k in gears 1-3 and sometimes 4th. It was rather pronounced, almost akin to stabbing the brakes and made for rough riding when gently slowing down or coasting in city driving. At first I thought it was a transmission issue but had the exact same issue holding in gear with manual shifting.

This heaving feel during deceleration issue was in addition to the oft reported dead pedal response on initial acceleration.

While there is huge improvement with the suggested fix already, I still notice a somewhat sudden but much less pronounced loss of power under the same conditions and am thinking of removing the magnets or entire flapper assembly entirely. I fail to see why it even needs to be there in the first place?

 

[amartz]

Re: Secondary air door/A.K.A Flapper door Experiment

has anyone noticed a drop in top end performance?

Nope. My door is still on, but testing seems to show it wouldn't hurt even without the door. At least with the V8. Probably the same with the V6.

 

[nsanow]

I just pryed out one of the magnets and I will leave it out to see what it is like.

I also had a Hyundai tech tell me to reset the learning segment of the car you simply need to row your own gears from 1-5 up and then 5-1 down back to back and that will reset that function without having to disconnect the battery.

I will give it a shot on Friday when I am back to work to see if it gets rid of my dead pedal. The dead pedal is by a mile the biggest complaint of the car. I was given a 2015 3.8 loaner from the dealership and it was much more responsive. I wonder what the flapper looks like there.

I still for the life of me cannot figure out what function the flapper performs in the first place. Seems very odd.

 

[daviderle]

I still for the life of me cannot figure out what function the flapper performs in the first place. Seems very odd.

The general consensus it does provides some sound isolation, in addition it may provide some level of heat protection from the engine bay in most driving conditions and especially while the engine is idling (ex: traffic)...

 

[jakespop]

Thank you all for the good analysis and interesting ideas. My '13 3.8 has the dreaded (and dangerous) dead pedal issue and I finally got around to looking into the flapper. I took a slightly different approach to get to the same end result of the flapper having a weaker closing force.

I am extremely happy with the results. This is what I did:

First I removed the airbox top, filter, and flapper mechanism. With the flapper out I removed the magnets, marked which way was "up" with a sharpie (although there was a faint red line on top already) and tried reversing them as mentioned before. I couldn't tell much difference in reducing closure force in my case. Not sure if there are different magnets through the years but these seem ridiculously strong for their size.

I took the magnets out again and set the bottom one aside. With some metal/wire snips I cut the top magnet in half and put one half in the top and one half in the bottom and re-installed the two magnet holders. Now there was a noticeable reduction in closure force. The flapper still closes with a audible snap but with at least half as much force.

Took the car for a short drive and went to all of the intersections where I start cussing every morning in traffic. I tried slowly rolling then gunning it, coming to a full stop then immediately trying to speed away, and several cruising/then braking/then hard acceleration tests.... all resulting in a definite, noticeable, major reduction in lag. I haven't timed it or logged it yet but if it was 2 seconds before it has to be less than a half second now.

Doing it this way, it is 100% undetectable and there is no tape or anything to come loose later on. For 10 minutes and zero cost, I'm thrilled to have this one annoying thing greatly reduced to almost unnoticeable now. You guys are great and I thank you for the inspiration.

 

[kw88keys]

Very interesting post. I did something along the same lines. I bought a package of 6 ceramic magnets from Radio Shack (around $3.00). These are the correct width but too long so I scored it and used a hammer to reduce it to the correct size to fit in the magnet slot in the flapper door assembly. I left the lower magnet in the assembly untouched. This reduced the force by what feels like about 70% (a rough guess). Prior to doing this, I had placed a felt pad to keep the door open about 1/4" with the factory installed magnets intact which also of course reduced the pull of the factory magnets. I feel like the felt pad was just ever so much more effective in helping downshift times. Perhaps it helps to have a slight opening with the flapper at rest. My next iteration of this will probably be to put a 1/8" felt washer in so the door will not have to open from a full close. However, all this tweaking is now very minor in how it will fine tune the response. The main take-away for me is that by reducing the magnetic force, there is a MAJOR difference in the downshift times. As I mentioned on another forum, my satisfaction with this car has been greatly enhanced - I now have power AND responsiveness!

Thank you all for the good analysis and interesting ideas. My '13 3.8 has the dreaded (and dangerous) dead pedal issue and I finally got around to looking into the flapper. I took a slightly different approach to get to the same end result of the flapper having a weaker closing force.

I am extremely happy with the results. This is what I did:

First I removed the airbox top, filter, and flapper mechanism. With the flapper out I removed the magnets, marked which way was "up" with a sharpie (although there was a faint red line on top already) and tried reversing them as mentioned before. I couldn't tell much difference in reducing closure force in my case. Not sure if there are different magnets through the years but these seem ridiculously strong for their size.

I took the magnets out again and set the bottom one aside. With some metal/wire snips I cut the top magnet in half and put one half in the top and one half in the bottom and re-installed the two magnet holders. Now there was a noticeable reduction in closure force. The flapper still closes with a audible snap but with at least half as much force.

Took the car for a short drive and went to all of the intersections where I start cussing every morning in traffic. I tried slowly rolling then gunning it, coming to a full stop then immediately trying to speed away, and several cruising/then braking/then hard acceleration tests.... all resulting in a definite, noticeable, major reduction in lag. I haven't timed it or logged it yet but if it was 2 seconds before it has to be less than a half second now.

Doing it this way, it is 100% undetectable and there is no tape or anything to come loose later on. For 10 minutes and zero cost, I'm thrilled to have this one annoying thing greatly reduced to almost unnoticeable now. You guys are great and I thank you for the inspiration.

 

[daviderle]

.... all resulting in a definite, noticeable, major reduction in lag. I haven't timed it or logged it yet but if it was 2 seconds before it has to be less than a half second now.

Doing it this way, it is 100% undetectable and there is no tape or anything to come loose later on. For 10 minutes and zero cost, I'm thrilled to have this one annoying thing greatly reduced to almost unnoticeable now. You guys are great and I thank you for the inspiration.

Well done and , this is another great idea to address this issue while building on the same basic concept.

All I ask is for you to vote/update the poll, so we can collectively track the issue (with 0.5 second as completely resolved the issue, 1 sec reduced the issue and 2.0 seconds has no noticeable effect).

I am planing to make a big tally to supplement the poll as soon as I have few hours to spare ..

 

[kw88keys]

If there was a poll for mod of the year this would absolutely get my vote!!
It so simply takes care of a major annoyance that has been noted by numerous owners.

 

[jakespop]

If there was a poll for mod of the year this would absolutely get my vote!!
It so simply takes care of a major annoyance that has been noted by numerous owners.

I agree!