Synthetic Oil Changeover

[Mark_888]

I personally feel it's a Fox guarding the chicken coup story. Dealerships get to charge big bucks for something that is a unproven fairy tail. Do you really believe they want things to last longer....why are their warrantees so time senceitive with engine life?? Oil change at my dealership are $56 for oil $106 for synthetic.
That's $50 bucks more in shear profit.

There is no question that dealers and Quick Lube shops charge rip-off prices for synthetic oil. The actual oil does not cost that much more. At Walmart (in US) Mobil 1 is $26 for a 5-quart jug, and name brand conventional oil is $16 for a 5-quart jug. For that reason, Walmart stocks a lot more synthetic oil (various other brands in addition to Mobil 1) these days than conventional.

There are two options.

1. Change the oil yourself (as I do). But I realize that not everyone can do that.
2. Purchase the oil at Walmart and take it to the dealer, and ask them to use your oil (they should give you a hefty discount on the $56 price if you supply the oil).

 

[kev4]

Don't you all think that if synthetic was all that great that Hyundai would automatically put it in your car from New to always so they can advertise the extra protection you will get from your engine. Should they placard the use of synthetic after the first oil change in order to extend the life of you engine, no. The producers and designers of the engines that go into our cars are not reccommending the use of synthetic, so why are us novice doing it.

After all they advertise putting nitrogen in your tire. I think the hype is costing everyone more money for NO good reason.

Just my feelings about the subject.

 

[jimb100]

I don't "want" anything to be true. It's a well established fact fact that synthetic oil is a superior product to conventional oil. Research it yourself and you'll find many reputable sources that state exactly that. Here's one for example:

http://www.mne.psu.edu/chang/me462/syn_vs_min.pdf

Of course, whether you need synthetic oil in your car or not is another question - for most people living in mild climates, it may not make much difference over the life of the car. However, to me, not having to be concerned if I go a little longer between oil changes, getting better cold start lubrication, and keeping the engine cleaner are well worth the minor cost increase as I intend to keep the car for many years.

I'm not sure why you have such an issue with someone taking every precaution they can to enhance the longevity of their vehicle? But I'm done explaining my actions to you...

I don't have a problem with taking precautions. I do have a problem with telling people their engine will last longer if they use synthetic oil when their is no evidence.

 

[CanukV6]

Don't you all think that if synthetic was all that great that Hyundai would automatically put it in your car from New to always so they can advertise the extra protection you will get from your engine. Should they placard the use of synthetic after the first oil change in order to extend the life of you engine, no. The producers and designers of the engines that go into our cars are not reccommending the use of synthetic, so why are us novice doing it.

After all they advertise putting nitrogen in your tire. I think the hype is costing everyone more money for NO good reason.

Just my feelings about the subject.

Hyundai is not going to promote Synthetic Oil by making it the OEM engine fill or by recommending its use, because they want to advertise low servicing costs. That doesn't mean that Synthetic Oil offers no benefits. Of course it is going to cost more money, because it costs more to manufacture. That said, the mark-ups that dealerships put on synthetic oil changes is often unjustified. The advantages of using synthetic oil are very well documented and not just by greedy dealers or oil companies. Go to http://bobistheoilguy.com/ if you want independent proof.

As already stated, that doesn't mean that you should/must/crazy-if-you-don't use synthetic oil. If you change your conventional oil every 3000 miles and don't live in a harsh climate, there is probably little justification. But for others that understand the advantages of synthetic oil, the additional costs may be acceptable.

 

[Mark_888]

Don't you all think that if synthetic was all that great that Hyundai would automatically put it in your car from New to always so they can advertise the extra protection you will get from your engine. Should they placard the use of synthetic after the first oil change in order to extend the life of you engine, no. The producers and designers of the engines that go into our cars are not reccommending the use of synthetic, so why are us novice doing it.

After all they advertise putting nitrogen in your tire. I think the hype is costing everyone more money for NO good reason.

Just my feelings about the subject.

Hyundai does not specify nitrogen in tires to maintain a warranty, so I don't know where you got that they advertise that. In fact, Hyundai does not even provide a warranty for the tires (that is provided by the tire manufacturer).

Regarding synthetic oil, many manufacturers, especially those who sell cars at the lower end of the price range, do not want to raise the cost of car maintenance versus the competition. I can assure you that every salesman knows which brands require synthetic oil changes and will use that in their sales pitch to customers.

Some may say that for Genesis buyers, they may not care so much about the higher cost of synthetic oil changes. But reading this thread seems to suggest otherwise. Plus, Hyundai uses the same Lambda and Tau engines in other vehicles that are not considered luxury models.

I am surprised that people don't understand the sales dynamics of requiring high cost oil changes. Honda requires synthetic oil in their vehicles, but they have figured out a way to hide that fact by simply requiring 0W-20 viscosity, which is only available in a synthetic.

 

[Mark_888]

I don't have a problem with taking precautions. I do have a problem with telling people their engine will last longer if they use synthetic oil when their is no evidence.

There is plenty of evidence. If you chose to ignore it, or figure your car is will always be under warranty while you own it, that is fine. But don't sit there and tell me that synthetic oil does not provide better engine protection than conventional oil. Don't tell me that.

 

[kev4]

Hyundai does not specify nitrogen in tires to maintain a warranty, so I don't know where you got that they advertise that. In fact, Hyundai does not even provide a warranty for the tires (that is provided by the tire manufacturer).

Regarding synthetic oil, many manufacturers, especially those who sell cars at the lower end of the price range, do not want to raise the cost of car maintenance versus the competition. I can assure you that every salesman knows which brands require synthetic oil changes and will use that in their sales pitch to customers.

Some may say that for Genesis buyers, they may not care so much about the higher cost of synthetic oil changes. But reading this thread seems to suggest otherwise. Plus, Hyundai uses the same Lambda and Tau engines in other vehicles that are not considered luxury models.



I am surprised that people don't understand the sales dynamics of requiring high cost oil changes. Honda requires synthetic oil in their vehicles, but they have figured out a way to hide that fact by simply requiring 0W-20 viscosity, which is only available in a synthetic.

Where, Where do I say anything about Nitrogen and Warranty. They DO advertise putting nitro in their tires as part of a convenience package which it is included in. Wheel Locks, Mud Flaps, and nitro kit in tires.

 

[jimb100]

There is plenty of evidence. If you chose to ignore it, or figure your car is will always be under warranty while you own it, that is fine. But don't sit there and tell me that synthetic oil does not provide better engine protection than conventional oil. Don't tell me that.

Then it should be easy for you to cite the studies that show synthetic oil will make your engine last longer and by how much.

You seem to be making emphatic claims without quantifiable evidence.

 

[Mark_888]

Where, Where do I say anything about Nitrogen and Warranty. They DO advertise putting nitro in their tires as part of a convenience package which it is included in. Wheel Locks, Mud Flaps, and nitro kit in tires.

Convenience package? Is that offered by Hyundai Canada or by your dealer? You said that "they" advertise putting nitrogen in the tires, but it sounds like the convenience package costs extra money, which is why they advertise it.

As I have explained, manufacturers want to advertise the lowest possible cost of ownership/maintenance they can for competitive reasons (especially those manufacturers who tend to sell to price-sensitive customers), that is still consistent with reasonable reliability. There are always trade-offs to be made in this regard.

Even if they did put nitrogen in tires, it is not required to maintain the warranty on the tires. If you own a new Honda or Toyota that requires 0W-20 oil (only available in a synthetic), and you used conventional oil, and there is a problem with your engine, you "may" have problems with the warranty.

Here is some interesting information from the Toyota website in USA that discusses the use of synthetic oil for engines that require it, along with some older engines that don't:

Q: What are the oil change intervals using synthetic oil?​

• Only Toyota vehicles in which 0w-20 synthetic oil is required (except for the 2TR-FE and 3UR-FBE Engines*) have been approved for extended oil change intervals of 10,000-miles/12-months. (However, you should continue to check the oil level regularly and top off if needed. That will help your engine get the full benefit of synthetic oil.)
• Vehicles in which 0w-20 is an option to 5w-20 mineral oil, (or 5w-30), will continue to require 5,000-mile/6-month oil change intervals, even if 0w-20 oil is used.

http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/faqs​

 

[kev4]

Convenience package? Is that offered by Hyundai Canada or by your dealer? You said that "they" advertise putting nitrogen in the tires, but it sounds like the convenience package costs extra money, which is why they advertise it.

As I have explained, manufacturers want to advertise the lowest possible cost of ownership/maintenance they can for competitive reasons (especially those manufacturers who tend to sell to price-sensitive customers), that is still consistent with reasonable reliability. There are always trade-offs to be made in this regard.

Even if they did put nitrogen in tires, it is not required to maintain the warranty on the tires. If you own a new Honda or Toyota that requires 0W-20 oil (only available in a synthetic), and you used conventional oil, and there is a problem with your engine, you "may" have problems with the warranty.

Here is some interesting information from the Toyota website in USA that discusses the use of synthetic oil for engines that require it, along with some older engines that don't:

Q: What are the oil change intervals using synthetic oil?​

• Only Toyota vehicles in which 0w-20 synthetic oil is required (except for the 2TR-FE and 3UR-FBE Engines*) have been approved for extended oil change intervals of 10,000-miles/12-months. (However, you should continue to check the oil level regularly and top off if needed. That will help your engine get the full benefit of synthetic oil.)
• Vehicles in which 0w-20 is an option to 5w-20 mineral oil, (or 5w-30), will continue to require 5,000-mile/6-month oil change intervals, even if 0w-20 oil is used.

http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/faqs​

Question asked but not answered. Once again, where do I say anything about nitrogen and warranty???

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[Mark_888]

Question asked but not answered. Once again, where do I say anything about nitrogen and warranty???

You said above:

Where, Where do I say anything about Nitrogen and Warranty. They DO advertise putting nitro in their tires as part of a convenience package which it is included in. Wheel Locks, Mud Flaps, and nitro kit in tires.

First, please answer these questions:

1. Is that the dealer or the manufacturer who offers nitrogen?
2. What does your statement about selling nitrogen have to do with the synthetic oil discussion?
3. What does your statement above mean and why did you mention nitrogen? Most dealers offer a lot of add-on stuff like window tinting, etc (maybe not so much in Canada).

My presumption was that you were questioning why Hyundai does not specify synthetic oil (and why do the cars not come factory filled with synthetic). If they did specify synthetic, the use of conventional oil would affect the warranty. So the manufacturer warranty is related to whether synthetic oil is specified by the manufacturer, and is closely related to this discussion.

 

[kev4]

You said above:


First, please answer these questions:

1. Is that the dealer or the manufacturer who offers nitrogen?
2. What does your statement about selling nitrogen have to do with the synthetic oil discussion?
3. What does your statement above mean and why did you mention nitrogen? Most dealers offer a lot of add-on stuff like window tinting, etc (maybe not so much in Canada).

My presumption was that you were questioning why Hyundai does not specify synthetic oil (and why do the cars not come factory filled with synthetic). If they did specify synthetic, the use of conventional oil would affect the warranty. So the manufacturer warranty is related to whether synthetic oil is specified by the manufacturer, and is closely related to this discussion.

I suggest you return to the original post and read it very carefully. If reading comprehension is a problem then I suggest you have someone else read it to you. That said consider this one way conversation closed.
Thank You

 

[Mark_888]

I suggest you return to the original post and read it very carefully. If reading comprehension is a problem then I suggest you have someone else read it to you. That said consider this one way conversation closed.
Thank You

I have read it carefully. It seems to suggest that just because a dealer advertises a service (synthetic oil changes or nitrogen in tires), it does not mean it is needed. That in itself "may" be true in some cases.

However, I hope your not suggesting that nitrogen in tires has no proven advantage compared to air, but I fear that you are saying that (just as you claim that synthetic oil has no proven advantage over conventional mineral oil). Since you prefer to not explain yourself, then I guess this conversation is closed.

 

[jimb100]

I have read it carefully. It seems to suggest that just because a dealer advertises a service (synthetic oil changes or nitrogen in tires), it does not mean it is needed. That in itself "may" be true in some cases.

However, I hope your not suggesting that nitrogen in tires has no proven advantage compared to air, but I fear that you are saying that (just as you claim that synthetic oil has no proven advantage over conventional mineral oil). Since you prefer to not explain yourself, then I guess this conversation is closed.

Your statements all seem to be sweeping generalities with little to back them up.

You say that nitrogen has "proven" advantages compared to air. What are they and how are these advantages measured?

It could be as simple as "I will only need to add air to my tires once a year, not twice a year as I do with air."

Then we could all decide if the hassle of nitrogen is worth not having to add air one additional time per year.

Or in the case of synthetic oil, my engine will last on average an additional 6000 miles after 150,000 using synthetic over regular oil.

But you've offered nothing but generalities. Stating that something is "obviously" better than a competitor without quantifying how and why just leaves your reasoning suspect.

 

[Mark_888]

Your statements all seem to be sweeping generalities with little to back them up.

You say that nitrogen has "proven" advantages compared to air. What are they and how are these advantages measured?

It could be as simple as "I will only need to add air to my tires once a year, not twice a year as I do with air."

Then we could all decide if the hassle of nitrogen is worth not having to add air one additional time per year.

Or in the case of synthetic oil, my engine will last on average an additional 6000 miles after 150,000 using synthetic over regular oil.

But you've offered nothing but generalities. Stating that something is "obviously" better than a competitor without quantifying how and why just leaves your reasoning suspect.

It is proven that tires with nitrogen leak less than tires filled with air. My own experience confirms that without any question. I am not suggesting as to what exactly that is worth (I bought my tires at Costco and they always use nitrogen at no extra charge, and they refill with nitrogen during free 7500 mile rebalances).

I am not going to get into a detailed debate about the benefits of synthetic oil. The fact that even Toyota and Honda now require synthetic for their vehicles (except for some older engines) should be an eye-opener (in addition to BMW, MB, etc, etc). But you can believe whatever you want.

Obviously, everything has a price at which one might be swayed one way or the other for both nitrogen and synthetic oil (unless required by the manufacturer). Since I do my own oil changes, the difference in cost between conventional vs synthetic is about $10-$12, and if I have a dealer do it then I bring my own oil for them to use and the difference is probably about $20-$25. As I already mentioned, Costco does not charge extra for nitrogen, and their tire prices were the best I could find (given that I was already a Costco member).

 

[Rogerf]

Damn, I think I'll buy a horse!

 

[dareckibmw]

damn, i think i'll buy a horse!

haha!

 

[4104]

My dealer say the options for synthetic oil changes are.

A) Dealer supplied Amzoil $85 a change

B) Dealer oil change $28 plus I supply Mobil 1 (WalMart)

Its not the cost but which is the best oil for my 3.8

My experience with synthetic oil is changing the oil is as follows.

My Cadi Deville 110K miles run on conventional oil. I changed over to Royal Purple synthetic. No one explained that synthetic pushes all the dirt and grime into the oil filter. After 2k miles I ruined the engine. I should have changed the filter at 1K.

 

[Mark_888]

My dealer say the options for synthetic oil changes are.

A) Dealer supplied Amzoil $85 a change

B) Dealer oil change $28 plus I supply Mobil 1 (WalMart)

Its not the cost but which is the best oil for my 3.8

My experience with synthetic oil is changing the oil is as follows.

My Cadi Deville 110K miles run on conventional oil. I changed over to Royal Purple synthetic. No one explained that synthetic pushes all the dirt and grime into the oil filter. After 2k miles I ruined the engine. I should have changed the filter at 1K.

Amsoil makes 3 different kinds of synthetic. The one that your dealer uses is probably not as good as Mobil 1 that you can buy at Walmart. I would get the Mobil 1 0W-30 or the 5W-30 EP.

Your Cadillac probably had some sludge in the engine, that was loosened up by the synthetic. If you change your oil on a regular basis, your Genesis should not have any sludge, so no problem going with synthetic.

 

[4104]

Thanks Mark 888, I will change to Mobil 1 and as I live in the Phoenix AZ area the book says due to the sand to change the oil more frequently.

I will have 1000 miles on my genesis next month and will be going on a 3000 miles run right after I will change to Mobil oil before the trip.

Thanks

John