Some questions regarding the engine oil.

[lobsenza]

I recommend the initial oil change at 1000-1500 miles to remove the metal particles from the engine manufacture.

 

[Midnightsun]

Hi again. The car I'm buying is a ex demonstrator but only has 200 miles on the clock. It's spent most of its life in the show room. It is in fact one year old (build date 4th Dec 2014), but I'm getting a massive discount on the new price. It looks and smells like new. Bearing this in mind, would it be still best to leave the originally fitted oil in until 3000 miles, and then change to Shell, or is the original oil too old already?

As part of the deal you need to get them to change the oil ASAP. I am very familiar with low milage vehicles as I have quite a few. Oil should be changed on a regular 1 year interval ay least unless the car was NEVER run at all.

Here is a good explanation why this is so.

"If you don't put a lot of miles on your car you need to go by time rather than miles for oil changes. Blowby gasses in the crankcase condense to form all kinds of nasty acids that can literally eat up your engine. On a car that is driven every day these condensates get "boiled off" by engine heat, but on a car that only takes short infrequent "trips to the store" these condensates can build up in the engine. So if you have a "granny car" that only drives a few hundred miles per year you should change the oil every 6 months to a year regardless of mileage."

 

[Mark_888]

As part of the deal you need to get them to change the oil ASAP. I am very familiar with low milage vehicles as I have quite a few. Oil should be changed on a regular 1 year interval ay least unless the car was NEVER run at all.

Here is a good explanation why this is so.

"If you don't put a lot of miles on your car you need to go by time rather than miles for oil changes. Blowby gasses in the crankcase condense to form all kinds of nasty acids that can literally eat up your engine. On a car that is driven every day these condensates get "boiled off" by engine heat, but on a car that only takes short infrequent "trips to the store" these condensates can build up in the engine. So if you have a "granny car" that only drives a few hundred miles per year you should change the oil every 6 months to a year regardless of mileage."

That is true, but the car only has 200 miles on it. It was originally a demo, but then was moved to the showroom floor and has been there for awhile according to Nick. So I don't think it is factor in this particular car.

However, if the car is being sold as used (and the new car in-service date previously started), then it will need an oil change simply because the warranty terms require that it be changed at least once per year, regardless of the number of miles driven (even if zero).

 

[Midnightsun]

That is true, but the car only has 200 miles on it. It was originally a demo, but then was moved to the showroom floor and has been there for awhile according to Nick. So I don't think it is factor in this particular car.

However, if the car is being sold as used (and the new car in-service date previously started), then it will need an oil change simply because the warranty terms require that it be changed at least once per year, regardless of the number of miles driven (even if zero).

I read this as it is taken out from the showroom floor once in a while for a short test drive so I am thinking it has gone out 30 times or so for a short stint. Regardless, the oil should be changed.

 

[nickpike]

Hi guys, thanks for the input. It has literally done 4 trips. It was driven to 2 shows in this area and the sales manager took it home for 2 nights. If you look at the mileages (I know where the sales manager lives, for example) these 4 trips add up to 200 miles. Also, the car was registered beginning of October, so only took to the road for 2 months.

cheers
Nick

 

[nickpike]

The correct Shell synthetic in the UK for the Hyundai Genesis V6 is Shell Helix Ultra Professional AF 5W-30. However, I would not switch to synthetic until about 3,000 - 5,000 miles with the factory fill, to make sure the rings seat properly with conventional oil.

Hi again. Just out of interest I contacted Shell UK to recommend an oil, as it would give some more choice depending on availability of the oils.

They recommended Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 and stated,

Based on our references and database, Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 is the recommended oil for a Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6 (2015). This is a fully synthetic oil and it indeed exceeds the API SM requirement stated in your manual - Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 is approved up to the API SN performance standard which is backward compatible to API SM.


Any comments, and how relevant is this ECT?
Many thanks
Nick

 

[Mark_888]

Hi again. Just out of interest I contacted Shell UK to recommend an oil, as it would give some more choice depending on availability of the oils.

They recommended Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 and stated,

Based on our references and database, Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 is the recommended oil for a Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6 (2015). This is a fully synthetic oil and it indeed exceeds the API SM requirement stated in your manual - Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 is approved up to the API SN performance standard which is backward compatible to API SM.


Any comments, and how relevant is this ECT?
Many thanks
Nick

I used the Shell LubeMatch webpage to find the correct oil and it said Shell Helix Ultra Professional AF 5W-30 for a Genesis V6 starting in 2008. It actually says 5W-20, but I know Hyundai has changed that to 5W-30 for more recent versions of the sedan (you can verify that with your owner's manual).
http://lubematch.shell.co.uk/gb

However, for the Genesis Coupe, starting in 2008, it lists two options:

• Premium - Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W-30 (note this is different than the AF above)
• Alternative- Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W-30

The ECT oil appears to be the new PurePlus oil made from Natural Gas. That makes it a group III synthetic, the same as Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus technology as sold in the US. I am pretty sure that the AF oil has at least some Group IV polymers and/or Group V Esters, and it is probably a better oil than the ECT.

Maybe the clerk you talked to didn't know the difference between the Sedan and the Coupe, or maybe the website is wrong. When you call them or email them, you are not talking to an engineer.

 

[nickpike]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...NFAB9iP0aKnAHw&bvm=bv.110151844,d.d2s&cad=rja

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...DS.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF2wSTdKbxEpcy_Kn_BN__kseRRrA

Hi, the above links show the data sheets.

Interesting to see the flash point of
AF = 192°C
ECT = 240°C

Viscosity @ 100°C
AF = 9.5 cSt
ECT = 12.02 cSt

The higher temperature flash point of ECT suggests to me less degradation in use. The viscosity is higher. What is an optimum viscosity at normal running temperatures. Is the higher viscosity better?

 

[Mark_888]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...NFAB9iP0aKnAHw&bvm=bv.110151844,d.d2s&cad=rja

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...DS.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF2wSTdKbxEpcy_Kn_BN__kseRRrA

Hi, the above links show the data sheets.

Interesting to see the flash point of
AF = 192°C
ECT = 240°C

Viscosity @ 100°C
AF = 9.5 cSt
ECT = 12.02 cSt

The higher temperature flash point of ECT suggests to me less degradation in use. The viscosity is higher. What is an optimum viscosity at normal running temperatures. Is the higher viscosity better?

All xW-30 motor oils should have a similar Viscosity @ 100°C. Higher is not better, but should be within the range appropriate for a 30 weight oil. The acceptable range is somewhat wide, but the 12.02 viscosity for a 30 weight oil seems high to me (comparing other brands of 30 weight synthetic oil).

I don't know what to say about the flash point of the AF oil. I think it is a misprint. If you want to call Shell back, and make sure they know you have a Genesis sedan, and not Genesis coupe, that might be good.

 

[nickpike]

If you want to call Shell back, and make sure they know you have a Genesis sedan, and not Genesis coupe, that might be good.

I've emailed them back for clarification and await a response.

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[Mark_888]

I've emailed them back for clarification and await a response.

As them why their website says AF for the sedan (based on link I gave you).

 

[nickpike]

Done, waiting for reply.

 

[nickpike]

I got a reply but they felt they may not have had all the correct information, so emailed everything I know plus more info from the owners manual (USA type, I can't find one for RHD, but then it is the same car). Waiting for reply.
cheers
Nick

 

[Mark_888]

I got a reply but they felt they may not have had all the correct information, so emailed everything I know plus more info from the owners manual (USA type, I can't find one for RHD, but then it is the same car). Waiting for reply.
cheers
Nick

One more post and I am done on this subject (hopefully).

According the Shell UK website, Shell ECT motor oil is a low emissions formula, which is typically called a European Formula when sold in the US. In order to make it low emissions, they have to reduce certain chemicals in the oil that normally are desirable to reduce friction, etc. German cars are typically designed to handle such oils because of very strict emissions regulations in Germany. Usually, these oils do not technically meet the specifications for most American, Japanese, and Korean cars.

People frequently tell me they call Shell, or call Mobil, or call Hyundai to get an answer or lodge a complaint. The calls are almost always initially handled by low paid people who are told to follow a script of some kind. These people are not experts to say the least, and don't really "represent" the company. They are penalized if a question or problem has to be escalated to someone else, since that costs the company money to have highly paid people dealing with those calls.

When I worked in technology, people would frequently tell me that they asked an IBM employee a technical question (about an IBM product), and tell me that "IBM said xxxx." I tell them, no, IBM did not tell you anything. One person who works for IBM told you something, and there are hundreds of thousands IBM employees, and they don't all have the same level of expertise, and they don't all agree with each other. I know this because I used to work for IBM, and a lot of idiots told customers the wrong stuff all the time.

 

[nickpike]

Hi, I received this from Shell.
At least they answered and are being helpful.

Any comments?



Dear Nicholas,

Thank you for all the information provided.

If your actual model is year 2015, then it is not advisable to follow the recommendation for the 2008 model listing Helix Ultra Professional AF 5W20 - the engine make and requirements most probably have changed already over the years hence the inconsistencies of the products we are looking at.



In this case, since your actual registration code is not yet in our LubeMatch database, it is best to base recommendations on the oil specs indicated in your manual. According to the chart you shared, either a 10W30 or 5W30 oil would be suitable for use; and indeed the 5W30 grade would be in fact a good choice for better fuel economy since its low temperature viscosity is thinner compared to a 10W30 product, allowing better flow during cold start ups. Considering all of these, as well as the oil standards you previously provided, my recommendation would be the same - Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30. Depending on availability, another product you may also opt to use is Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30. Both of these grades are blended up to the API SN performance standard which is backward compatible to API SM. I included below the screenshot for your reference:

(+++Attached thumbnail goes here+++)





I hope this helps and should you need further assistance, please feel free to revert back to us.



Best regards,



Rachelle

Technical Helpdesk - UK

 

[Mark_888]

Hi, I received this from Shell.
At least they answered and are being helpful.

Any comments?

I already pointed out that they had the viscosity wrong, and it should be 5W-30 for the 2015 V6.

According to the information Shell provided you, Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30 is the premium choice for the 2015 Genesis, and the Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 is an "alternative."

Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30 (API SN) is a newer formula made from Natural Gas (PurePlus technology) and has the newer API SN designation. The 2015 Genesis Hyundai Owner's Manual specifies API SM (higher is OK).

Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 is a low emissions formula (Emissions Compatible Technology), as required by German and some other European cars, but lacks additives that most American, Japanese, and Korean cars expect to have in the oil.

In addition:

• Shell Helix Ultra Professional AF 5W30 is rated at ACEA A5.
• Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30 is rated at ACEA A3.
• Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3 5W30 is rated at ACEA A3.

The 2015 Hyundai Owner's Manual (USA version) specifies the following:

"API Service SM & ILSAC GF-4 (or above), ACEA A5 or above"​

Personally, I would use Shell Helix Ultra Professional AF 5W30 or Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30.

 

[nickpike]

Many thanks.
I asked Hyundai UK for advice and they sent me a copy of the RHD manual page regarding lubrication and I have attached the graphic. Interesting to see in print that they recommend Shell Helix.
I have emailed back asking which Helix to use, but I'm not convinced I'll get the information I require.

I also tried to contact Hyundai Korea, but I can't get their contact page to work. They send an email for confirmation of the email address, but the email never arrives.

May I ask this? You say That Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30 is ok to use. But Hyundai specify ACEA A5 (or above) and you say AG is ACEA A3?

cheers
Nick

 

[nickpike]

I just checked at the Shell site, did you mean Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30 is rated at ACEA C3, and not ACEA A3?

 

[nickpike]

One other thought.
Is this oil ever likely to be fake/ counterfeit?

 

[Mark_888]

Interesting to see in print that they recommend Shell Helix.

Don't pay any attention to that. Shell makes fine products, but it is basically a paid advertisement as part of the global agreement I mentioned earlier with Hyundai. In the USA, Hyundai recommends Quaker State oil (owned by Shell). But I doubt there are any dealers who use Shell motor oil, because they can probably find cheaper ones to use.

May I ask this? You say That Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30 is ok to use. But Hyundai specify ACEA A5 (or above) and you say AG is ACEA A3?

That is a little confusing, but it appears that newer synthetic oils have lower ACEA ratings, including Mobil 1 products, so I would not worry about it. Keep in mind that Hyundai does not even not specify synthetic oil for the Genesis, so any 5W30 synthetic product you use will far exceed the requirements that Hyundai mentions in the owner's manual.

The only thing I worry about is using a low emissions formula (like the ECT), but I can't be 100% sure if that is problem or not.

Maybe you are over thinking this, or maybe you are retired and have nothing else to do?

But my original recommendation was Shell Helix Ultra Professional AF 5W30, and that is what I would use if I could find it. Second choice is Shell Helix Ultra Professional AG 5W30.

I personally use Mobil 1 5W30 Extended Performance, which is also an excellent motor oil.