Some more on the Genesis spinoff

[Genentec]

the germans still make very unreliable cars. simple mechanisms are not tested enough to ensure longevity.

there are so many audi benz bmw owners who have gone thru time wasting, money wasting repair attempts, things that should've worked out during the manufacturing testing process.

its very common to have to replace the sunroof assy for a benz thats only 3 years old. its very common to have a leaky engine for a bmw thats only a year old.

for example, if you look at the mechanics of the power rear shade, the genesis shade is twice as fast and super smooth. the shade on the benz is twice as slow and the movement is not refined. the power door locks on the benz is clumsy. the locks in the genesis is smooth and precise.

hyundai has surpassed the europeans in every way except marketing.

if you look at older lexus models, u see plenty of them hitting 300k miles. heck only time will tell if 400k miles is possible.

im sure hyundai will be as good because everyone i know who has a hyundai or kia has been nothing but happy. on the other hand, most bmw and benz owners in the first 2 years have been nothing but disappointed.

in fact i over heard one of my customers say how nice it was to actually have a car that was trouble free. this was after his audi was lemoned for numerous attempts to repair. he finally got a lexus.

 

[Genentec]

also, a lot of the benz have transmission issues. ita typical for a benz less than 4 years old to have transmission issues. simple technology mechanics that they just care to get right. im surprised a lawyer has not filed a class action because m it can be proven as chronic and typical.

now look at hyundai, 5 years, 10 years in and transmissions rock solid.

 

[jimb100]

You are trying to make this personal. It is nothing of the kind.

Reliability made MB and BMW what they are today. Over the long haul, if the Germans continue to have reliability problems, their brands will eventually be diminished to some degree. They have already opened up a big hole for Lexus to jump in and fill in the luxury car market.

Well, if my belief that you are wrong makes it personal, all I can say is I'm entitled to my opinion and I think I have facts and logic to back it up.

You 'reliability' issues don't seem to have impacted their sales at all.

What may happen in the future is anybody guess, but it doesn't appear any Lexus model has impacted the German's sales.

 

[Mark_888]

Well, if my belief that you are wrong makes it personal, all I can say is I'm entitled to my opinion and I think I have facts and logic to back it up.

You 'reliability' issues don't seem to have impacted their sales at all.

What may happen in the future is anybody guess, but it doesn't appear any Lexus model has impacted the German's sales.

Everyone else in this thread seems to agree that MB has reliability problems, including those who conduct statistical analyses such as Consumer Reports. If MB keeps having reliability problems, they are going to have to lower the residual value on leases, because people who buy used cars certainly are not going to be able to afford to fix them out of warranty.

Lexus sales have hurt MB since the day Lexus was born.

 

[YEH]

^ Not really anymore at the higher end of the luxury market.

 

[MoabGen]

Just came across this regarding Hyundai to build Genesis vehicles in China for the Chinese market. The graph partway down is also interesting. Annual Genesis sales nearly doubled when the G2 debuted.

http://www.inautonews.com/hyundai-plans-to-build-its-genesis-cars-in-china-for-a-lower-price-tag

 

[Nikgen]

They confirmed an "amazing" high performance luxury coupe is coming during the live broadcast from the Detroit Auto show.

 

[Nikgen]

They also said the G70 will define a new performance benchmark for the brand!

 

[Nikgen]

They also said the G70 will define a new performance benchmark for the brand!

Ricky Lao from Hyundai said he couldn't say much about the G70 as there will be more details announced at the New York Show! Exciting times for the new Genesis Brand!

 

[SunnySD]

This thread was enlightening to read. Let me add my $.02 to the last few posts commenting on German/Japanese/Korean reliability. I follow this forum because I've liked what I've seen from the Genesis since it's come out.

I've got a 2007 Lexus IS350, a 2009 Mercedes E350 but never have bought Korean. I've had zero issues with my Mercedes. It's got over 90K miles on it. Knock on wood that it'll hit 100K trouble free. A couple things were replaced under warranty. The serpintine pulley and the cable which opens the glove compartment slowly. My Lexus has had the most recalls of any car I've every owned. I'm sure one can find all the recalls for it online, as I don't remember all of them. It has just under 100K miles on it and burns 2 quarts of oil every 5K mile oil change. That may be due to the lifter adjustment recall, when they had to open up the engine?

So for me, without looking at broad statistics of the manufacturers, the Mercedes has been much less trouble than the Lexus. Just thinking of all the cars I've owned, it's been the least trouble to get to 100K miles. I wonder if I'm a huge outlier with the Mercedes? My guess is I may be the norm with the Lexus.

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[Mark_888]

This thread was enlightening to read. Let me add my $.02 to the last few posts commenting on German/Japanese/Korean reliability. I follow this forum because I've liked what I've seen from the Genesis since it's come out.

I've got a 2007 Lexus IS350, a 2009 Mercedes E350 but never have bought Korean. I've had zero issues with my Mercedes. It's got over 90K miles on it. Knock on wood that it'll hit 100K trouble free. A couple things were replaced under warranty. The serpintine pulley and the cable which opens the glove compartment slowly. My Lexus has had the most recalls of any car I've every owned. I'm sure one can find all the recalls for it online, as I don't remember all of them. It has just under 100K miles on it and burns 2 quarts of oil every 5K mile oil change. That may be due to the lifter adjustment recall, when they had to open up the engine?

So for me, without looking at broad statistics of the manufacturers, the Mercedes has been much less trouble than the Lexus. Just thinking of all the cars I've owned, it's been the least trouble to get to 100K miles. I wonder if I'm a huge outlier with the Mercedes? My guess is I may be the norm with the Lexus.

Consumers Reports publishes statistical information each year about new and used car reliability. They get the information from surveys they get from their subscribers each year, and who report on cars, appliances, etc.

Some Lexus models and model years may have different reliability statistics due to specific problems, but overall Lexus has generally been pretty good. You can find the Consumers Reports annual report of reliability information at most libraries (ask the librarian for more information).

If you want to purchase the issue on used cars that shows reliability stats, you can get it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Consumer-Repo...d_cp_14_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1X4F7QV431B4JTMC7D60

 

[Jaeger]

I doubt they'll be available before late fall, and there may not even be a 5.0 version given the 3.3T - but it's all just a guess at this point.

One thing I'd bank on is that the G80 will be more expensive, so... if you realy want a 5.0, I'd grab a sure thing 2015 while they are still available - you also can likely get a really good deal on one.

Deals on any remaining 2015s border on insane. Ask me how I know. I GLADLY grabbed a 2015 and pocketed a huge pile of cash.

Very excited to see how things develop with the new brand - particularly the new models. No way I'd pass up the savings to wait on the new G80, though. And while I'm sure the new turbo 6 will really haul, one of the things that appealed to me about my car was driving a nice normally aspirated motor with its silken and linear power delivery. Pretty much everything is going boosted these days - I'll likely have nothing but turbos to choose from when I buy my next car.

 

[bobferg2]

I bought a 2009 Genesis V8 and put 150,000 miles on it. Great car, few problems, reliable, good dealer support. Bought a used 2013 Equus Ultimate, 11,000 miles in mid 2014 from a dealer 1,600 miles away. Had looked for over a year for an Equus, found few new, competitively priced, but one or two year old cars had huge discounts in pricing. Almost all of them were listed with non Equus dealers, many not even Hyundai dealers. Most had CarFax reports showing that they came through recent auctions. The car I bought was 14 months old and 60% of it's original sticker price. I could not find a pattern of these being "lemons", or water damaged, wrecked or having any tangible mechanical problems. It seemed that they just weren't selling. I have had my Equus for two years, it has 75,000 miles now, with one problem - replaced A/C compressor. I live in central California, and get oil, filters, etc., done at a local KIA dealership, since he has the parts. When I needed the warranty work done on the air conditioner, that was another story. The KIA dealer would not touch the car, even if I paid for it. The San Luis Obispo Hyundai (not Equus) dealer also refused, even though I called Equus USA, and they assured me they had called and the dealer would perform the service. The service writer at the dealership said they had experience with Equus HQ promising to pay them for service and then not doing so. I found a Hyundai dealer in Hanford, CA, 100 miles from me, who agreed to perform the service, although he was no longer a Equus dealer. Otherwise,it would have been 220 miles either way, north to San Jose or south to LA. I love this car, better than my MB 300 or Lexus LS400. I'll keep it for years and not worry that I could not sell it today for over $18,000. Now, after saying all that, all I see and hear about, is information on the new Genesis line, the G90, G80, G70, Etc. The cars are quite good, and not Hyundai's problem. Their problem is: when dealing with the buying, servicing, and the over all experience with the brand, it's just not premium. Not like Lexus, Accura, Mercedes, etc., in fact it is worse than just starting new, you now have a bad reputation for a failed effort. And since I have had experience with Hyundai's efforts, I'm not sure they are up to the task of giving a 10 year effort, equal to what Toyota/Lexus did. A pity.

 

[Mark_888]

I bought a 2009 Genesis V8 and put 150,000 miles on it. Great car, few problems, reliable, good dealer support. Bought a used 2013 Equus Ultimate, 11,000 miles in mid 2014 from a dealer 1,600 miles away. Had looked for over a year for an Equus, found few new, competitively priced, but one or two year old cars had huge discounts in pricing. Almost all of them were listed with non Equus dealers, many not even Hyundai dealers. Most had CarFax reports showing that they came through recent auctions. The car I bought was 14 months old and 60% of it's original sticker price. I could not find a pattern of these being "lemons", or water damaged, wrecked or having any tangible mechanical problems. It seemed that they just weren't selling. I have had my Equus for two years, it has 75,000 miles now, with one problem - replaced A/C compressor. I live in central California, and get oil, filters, etc., done at a local KIA dealership, since he has the parts. When I needed the warranty work done on the air conditioner, that was another story. The KIA dealer would not touch the car, even if I paid for it. The San Luis Obispo Hyundai (not Equus) dealer also refused, even though I called Equus USA, and they assured me they had called and the dealer would perform the service. The service writer at the dealership said they had experience with Equus HQ promising to pay them for service and then not doing so. I found a Hyundai dealer in Hanford, CA, 100 miles from me, who agreed to perform the service, although he was no longer a Equus dealer. Otherwise,it would have been 220 miles either way, north to San Jose or south to LA. I love this car, better than my MB 300 or Lexus LS400. I'll keep it for years and not worry that I could not sell it today for over $18,000. Now, after saying all that, all I see and hear about, is information on the new Genesis line, the G90, G80, G70, Etc. The cars are quite good, and not Hyundai's problem. Their problem is: when dealing with the buying, servicing, and the over all experience with the brand, it's just not premium. Not like Lexus, Accura, Mercedes, etc., in fact it is worse than just starting new, you now have a bad reputation for a failed effort. And since I have had experience with Hyundai's efforts, I'm not sure they are up to the task of giving a 10 year effort, equal to what Toyota/Lexus did. A pity.

I don't want to make excuses for Hyundai or its dealers, but one of the problems with a car like Equus is that it is a very low volume car. That means that a particular dealer may not have a mechanic who has repaired the Equus A/C before.

Plus, dealers typically lose money on warranty repairs because the labor reimbursement rate is way below the non-warranty rate, and is a fixed number of hours per each activity regardless of how long it actually takes, and if they have a tech working on it who has never done it before, then it will probably take a lot longer than normal.

And of course, the dealer makes no money on parts for a warranty repair, and Hyundai doesn't pay those ridiculous "shop fees" one will see on a service invoice.

 

[Munch520]

It may however I believe their goal is to get the brand into the accepted luxury circle which would then bring on more buyers form Mercedes, BMW and Audi. I have a feeling they will always be a better value however they may not be as good a value as they are today once a reputation is developed and price increases are gradually applied. There may be a day when you say you drive a Genesis and they are just as praised if not more than Mercedes/BMW. Reminds me of Lexus in their early stages.

As much as I am a fan of the Genesis and its value proposition, that is a stretch.

Although hyundai's reputation as a value product is at a peak today, that brand perception will stick to the detriment of winning over most prestige brand buyers. Mercedes and BMW may be expensive and not the same value, but both still invest and lead in the automotive world and I do not see them losing the mantle they have held almost since the start.

Not sure it's an enormous stretch. As the German automakers have gained prominence, so too has their product been spread throughout the market. Especially since they keep dipping further and further into the 'value' segment of the car world. Given that, personally I don't see why Genesis should be judged as a budget brand when I can easily get a BMW product that starts in the $25-30k range. And these are truly base models. And one of the worst ranges to own something like a BMW in...value priced model but with the premium world's a-la-carte pricing and options. Annoying in my book.

Furthermore, in many upscale, suburban locations the Genesis is what gets heads to turn and the 535, e350, etc. pass by and are regarded much in the same manner one would glaze over a beige 2002 Civic. Over the weekend I pulled into a very uppity restaurant and was stopped by a guy on patio who talked to me about the car for 5 minutes. Same goes for today when I park downtown for lunch and a lawyer walking out of his office does a triple take (literally) then turns around and walks back to talk to me about the Genesis.

Brand recognition (aka, snob appeal) may set in after their initial reactions, but people can't help but admit...the car is impressive. So much more so when you take cost into account.

Over the last year, I've been fortunate enough to be considering a medium/large premium car. Being 29 I wanted something I can take clients out in but I don't want to look like a 60-year-old realtor. So I want big AND sporty. Looked at the A7, S6, Panamera, 640i GC, etc. but at the end of the day, Maintenance and longevity scared me. Especially after tracking Audi and BMWs products and seeing what TLC their forced induction motors required when pushed. No thanks.

So to some, like me, it very handily competes with the premium brands...even beats them in some respects. And I come from the premium brands. However, people need to experience or at least see the car, to consider it as a premium brand. But yes, based on name alone...no way 'Hyundai' will compete with others. But 'Genesis' has a shot in my book.