Do you know that there are now two brands of Genesis cars?

[Mark_888]

The last I read indicated they will partition off a portion of the Hyundai dealerships and dedicate them to Genesis.

Initially Hyundai said that only about one half of USA dealers would sell the new Genesis brand, sort of like what happened with Equus.

They may or may not partition off dedicated areas depending on how much room they have. They were supposed to do that with Equus, but some dealers backed off that.

I think it will be at least 2020 before they have completely separate dealerships.

 

[AustinTX]

To be "successful" you have to make a profit. Hyundai has already offered the Genesis at prices well below the competition, with very generous incentives on top of that.

If a company want exclusivity, the last thing they would want to do is to offer a very similar product at higher selling prices (slight increase in MSRP and most likely much lower incentives), and then grant all the previous owners who paid $5K less all the same perks as offered with the new brand.

Hyundai is not offering the cars at low prices because they are generous or kind, they are offered at the prices they are offered at because it's what the market will bear. Even at these prices they had to discount heavily to get people to buy/lease the cars.

To be successful in the automotive space, you have to build brand loyalty (just check Tesla or Lexus, they know how to do that) and provide a good customer experience. When someone looks at a new car, they ask their friends/family who own one of these cars about their experience (I get asked all the time, because I'm the car guy to most of my acquaintances). My response right now is that I am disappointed with my ownership experience, and I won't recommend the car. To everyone I know I have a Genesis - not a Hyundai (because my car says Genesis and 99% of the population out there doesn't know the difference between a Hyundai Genesis and a Genesis G80). I could be an ambassador if I were taken care of by Genesis, but I am not because I don't feel like I am treated like a member of the Genesis brand.

The price difference between a 2016 Hyundai Genesis Ultimate and a 2017 Genesis G80 Ultimate is $700 - I will happily pay that extra money to have the Genesis experience, that's the value that Hyundai/Genesis put on that experience. If Hyundai were smart, they would send out a letter to all G2 owners with that offer. BANG - instant good will, instant brand ambassadors that will brag to their friends about that, and instant business for the new Genesis brand dealerships. Goodwill towards the next purchase/lease decision. In other words, the opposite of what they are creating with some owners right now.

Your $5k difference is based on what data? MSRP difference is $700, incentives are yet to be seen, but since the cars are going to be sold by the same dealers, same sales people and with the same content, why would incentives go down? No one knows the Genesis brand, and no one is suddenly going to pay $5k for a car just because Hyundai decided it's now it's own brand. The dealership experience will be the same, same facilities, same people, same everything. It's not going to be an Audi/BMW/Lexus/Mercedes-Benz experience just because Genesis decided to make a luxury brand. I certainly would not pay $5k more today than I did in March just because Hyundai says Genesis is now a brand instead of a sub-brand - because other than the Genesis perks (worth $700 in Hyundai's own eyes), nothing has changed.

 

[Mark_888]

The price difference between a 2016 Hyundai Genesis Ultimate and a 2017 Genesis G80 Ultimate is $700 - I will happily pay that extra money to have the Genesis experience, that's the value that Hyundai/Genesis put on that experience.

Really? You think the following are worth $700 (especially since you car is no longer new)?

• 3 years/36K miles Complimentary Scheduled Maintenance
• 3 years/36K miles Complimentary Valet Services
• 3 years Complimentary Genesis Connected Services including Connected Care, Remote, and Guidance
• 3 years Complimentary SiriusXM Travel Link (Traffic & Data)
• 3 years Complimentary Map Care – map updates
• Enhanced Roadside Assistance and Concierge Services

How much would these cost if you paid for them yourself? What about 2015 owners? What about 1G owners?

 

[PMCErnie]

Life's a bitch when your new car suddenly becomes last year's model. Buck up gang!

 

[AustinTX]

Really? You think the following are worth $700 (especially since you car is no longer new)?

• 3 years/36K miles Complimentary Scheduled Maintenance
• 3 years/36K miles Complimentary Valet Services
• 3 years Complimentary Genesis Connected Services including Connected Care, Remote, and Guidance
• 3 years Complimentary SiriusXM Travel Link (Traffic & Data)
• 3 years Complimentary Map Care – map updates
• Enhanced Roadside Assistance and Concierge Services

How much would these cost if you paid for them yourself? What about 2015 owners? What about 1G owners?

I don't think that's what these items are worth. That's what HYUNDAI feels they are worth, since the MSRP difference between otherwise identical cars is $700 - and the only difference is the G80 badge and the added services.

My car is a 2015 put into service in March or April this year. It's almost identical to the 2016 model (except for the fog lights maybe?), which is almost identical to the 2017 G80 model.

They could make an offer to G1 owners for more than $700, maybe based on mileage, in service date or something like that. At least give people a choice and make them feel part of the Genesis experience.

At some point in the future my lease will be up, and I will go lease something that's not a Genesis - unless my experience changes significantly. You may at that point still have your G1, and since you drive very little, you may not replace the car for a while. You are not the person that Genesis wants to convince to be a future customer. They need to convince affluent people who purchase/lease cars on a regular basis to be repeat customers. Based on my Genesis experience so far, I will not be back in the fold, and I will tell my friends/family to stay away from Genesis, as they do not value their existing customers. From reading comments here, I'm not the only one who feels that way, and frankly your obsession with defending Hyundai/Genesis does nothing to change my mind. You and I have a very different perspective on how to treat luxury car customers - I doubt your approach will earn Genesis the goodwill it needs to be successful long term. An investment into their current customer base now will pay off in spades - frustrating existing customers has the opposite effect. People share frustrating experiences much more than good ones (http://www.customerexperienceinsight.com/1-bad-customer-experience-hurts-you-in-4-ways/), so this will only hurt Genesis in the long run.

I'm not going to argue this point with you anymore though - you have already accused me of being "cheap" before, have told me that your net worth for sure is higher than mine (I am in awe of some people's ability to get insight on unrelated topics through Internet mind reading or whatever that ability may be), and hinted that I am not able to afford these cars (go back and look at your post to me in another thread).

 

[Corpnupe85]

I am one of the whiners. Before I purchased the 2015 Genesis 3.8, I was interested in an Audi A6, MB350 and BMW 5 series. I narrowed my decision to the 2015 Genesis or an Audi A6. I was able to lease the Genesis 3.8 for $40K. A similarly priced Audi A6 was 61K. I knew that the Genesis brand was coming in 2017; however, I didn't think that the 2015 Genesis would be excluded from the brand. Don't get me wrong, I like the Genesis. I don't like the way they are treating all of the Genesis customers. Before the Genesis, I owned a 2014 Lexus ES 350. To be honest, I love the Lexus dealership experience, and I was spoiled by it. I have to decide if I keep an amazing vehicle (2015 Genesis) or go back to Lexus for a GS 350 or go to Audi, BMW or Mercedes for the delearship experience and the perks?

 

[trespinosranch]

I agree Austin. Hyundai/Genesis has not earned my repeat business. It's partially the business plan, but more importantly the dealer. I just had my first service and will do the second and before the third service I'll be in a different brand (maybe sooner if problems arise/persist).

I can put up with the inoperative rain sensing wipers (3 attempts to fix and still does not work like it should), but if anything major or other repetitive issues pop up, I will pop out of here.

 

[Mark_888]

I have to decide if I keep an amazing vehicle (2015 Genesis) or go back to Lexus for a GS 350 or go to Audi, BMW or Mercedes for the delearship experience and the perks?

I must be really naïve. There must be some kind of illegal service being performed on customers in those Audi, BMW or Mercedes dealer waiting rooms that I don't know about it.

Yes, the Hyundai dealer experience is not very good on average. Everyone should have known that when they purchased the car. So long as they sell the Genesis brand at existing Hyundai dealers, it is not going to really be any different, no matter what they claim, because it will be the same people and same management providing the service.

Anyone who looked at their Hyundai Genesis out the door price vs the comparable cars obviously knew that the dealership experience was not going to be comparable to the other luxury brands. That is a decision we all made.

 

[trespinosranch]

I must be really naïve. There must be some kind of illegal service being performed on customers in those Audi, BMW or Mercedes dealer waiting rooms that I don't know about it.

Yes, the Hyundai dealer experience is not very good on average. Everyone should have known that when they purchased the car. So long as they sell the Genesis brand at existing Hyundai dealers, it is not going to really be any different, no matter what they claim, because it will be the same people and same management providing the service.

Anyone who looked at their Hyundai Genesis out the door price vs the comparable cars obviously knew that the dealership experience was not going to be comparable to the other luxury brands. That is a decision we all made.

Thanks Mark. I knew the dealership experience would be below average (coming from MBZ and Lexus), but at least get some high school graduates in there.

 

[LOVEMYSWEETNESS]

I agree with this whole-heartedly. Hyundai should have leveraged the Genesis owners (Gen 1 & 2) as brand ambassadors. There is still time to do this but the window is closing. The launch of the new brand would not have happened without those owners. Plain and simple.

While you can point to other brand launches such as Lexus and Acura, the fact of the matter is none of those were an evolution based on a particular model. While there were cross-brand models (e.g. ES300 (Camry), Integra (Honda Quint, a Japanese model), for all intents and purposes, they chose to launch an independent brand. Most Lexus and Acura owners didn't now about the parent company (some don't now). Hyundai with the Genesis brand, as best as I can tell, is being marketed as an evolution of the Genesis model. If it weren't, they would never have kept the 'Genesis' name.

In this day and age, what better way to ensure success than to launch with a built-in user-base??? By extending the Genesis brand to be 'backwards-compatible', Hyundai can mitigate the risk of failure. I suspect that most current Genesis owners would be more prone to promote the product and stay within the brand when it's time to change vehicles.

If it were me running things, it would be a no-brainer. Embrace the owners that enabled you to launch the new brand. Don't turn your backs on them.

Agree wholeheartedly!

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[Mark_888]

Thanks Mark. I knew the dealership experience would be below average (coming from MBZ and Lexus), but at least get some high school graduates in there.

In my experience, the Hyundai dealership experience is below Honda and Toyota.

The main reason why HMA imported the Genesis and Equus under the Hyundai brand to the USA was to improve the Hyundai brand image (this is straight from the former HMA CEO's mouth). Surveys showed that an alarming number of Camry and Accord buyers never even considered (much less test drove) a Sonata.

Hyundai has traditionally sold cars to people who could not afford a comparably equipped Toyota or Honda. They were often first time new car buyers. So the sales and service "tactics" that proved most successful for these kind of naïve buyers resulted in the sleaziest kind of employees being hired. The Hyundai dealer employees almost always make less than those at a Honda or Toyota dealership (not to mention Acura or Lexus).

Hyundai has made tremendous strides in the last 7-10 years in terms of the quality of their vehicles, but the dealership owners have not changed, and for the most part the dealership employees have not changed, and their employees definitely do not match the kind of customers who buy a Genesis. I knew that going in, and decided to live with it, since I only take my car to the dealer for warranty repairs or mandatory TSB's, or recalls.

 

[cleex024]

I still dont get all of those that are saying they are getting treated badly from Hyundai/Genesis...how are you being treated badly besides some of the incompetent dealers for service? Everything mentioned seems to be from hearsay and speculation. Why dont we actually just wait to see how we get treated in the future.

Also for those that say you came from lexus or whatnot better brands and might switch back because of service I just dont get it...did you think hyundai was gonna have equal service that of lexus, mb, bmw, etc? you knew that you were buying into a brand that sucks right? But you bought the car because of the features and how nice the car was and priced compared to other luxury brand cars.

I mean I was looking at all these other cars too and didnt even consider the genesis as I didnt know about it...but after reading reviews on the car and test driving it I was sold on the car. however the dealer I went to test drive it sucked and even though it sucked I still bought the car because i loved the car. im pretty sure most of you did the same thing.

 

[YEH]

I just find it ludicrous that there are two identical vehicles, with the same name but one has the cachet of being the luxury brand, while the other has been left to the Hyundai brand, which continues to focus on value.

You must have known that Hyundai was thinking of spinning off the Genesis.

It's a matter of timing of vehicle launches - either the Genesis/G80 or the Equus/G90 was going to get switched during a life-cycle.

With Toyota doing away with Scion, there will be FR-S/86 on the lots with a Scion badge or a Toyota badge.

I just purchased my vehicle in Feb of this year. If I would have known that the 2015 Genesis would not be included in the Genesis brand, I would have waited until for the G80. And the hyundai haters will attack me as well.

It was known well before Feb. of this year that Hyundai was launching the Genesis brand.

Nope - Genesis Motors USA took the lazy route and merely rebadged the 2016 Hyundai Genesis and charged more (and will deal less) ... so the 2017 G80 truly is a just a more expensive Hyundai Genesis - 2015/2016 owners got the same car at a substantial savings!

The additional charge is for all the safety tech that is now made standard.

Taking into account the cost of those features, G80 buyers are getting things like complimentary service for 3 yrs and service loaner vehicles at little cost.

I have written to both Hyundai and Genesis. Our vehicles will NOT be serviced by Genesis, even if and when they develop their own dealership network. They are Hyundais and always will be, despite the Gen 2's identical appearance and features to the G80.

Hyundai can't change something after the fact.

And as Mark stated, there will be nothing preventing you from taking your Genesis to a Genesis dealer down the road (won't happen for some years) for non-warranty service.

There are Lexus owner who take their rides to Toyota dealerships for more basic service (as it is cheaper) and there are Lexus and Toyota dealerships owned by the same dealer network who share the same service center.

There's also Lexus dealerships who will do basic service from other makes.

 

[YEH]

Had Hyundai been able to launch the brand as they planned in 2008 as you stated, how many Genesis owners would have still bought their car? How about Gen 2 owners? I bet a very high majority.

Are you sure about that?

The major reason why Hyundai was able to price the Genesis as low as they did was due to not incurring the cost of launching a separate brand.

If Hyundai had done so from the start, would have tacked an additional $5-6k to the price-tag.

How many 1G/2G owners would have bought the Genesis if it was that much closer to the price of more established brand offerings like the GS?

The 2008 - 2016 Genesis in Korea has always been under the Genesis brand, not the Hyundai brand. That is why we are able to get the wings from Korean dealer parts departments to replace our flying H's. There have never been any Hyundai markings on the Genesis in Korea.

Yep.

Like in Japan, the luxury models are their own specific brand.

Hence, the Equus having totally different badging from the Genesis.

Same goes for the Crown Majesta, Century, etc. luxury sedans in Japan.

The decision to sell the Hyundai Genesis in the USA as a Hyundai was an HMA decision. Also, you claim that Hyundai could not afford to open separate dealerships in the USA is not exactly correct. Hyundai does not pay for the dealerships, individual (or corporate) investors in the USA have to pay several million to build and open a dealership, and it was obvious that they would not have enough dealers willing to put up that much money.

Often, an automaker does chip in some $$ for build-out of new facilities and Toyota had to subsidize the Lexus dealerships to help keep them afloat (when the only thing they had to sell was the LS400).

A separate Genesis dealer network was never going to happen at the time the 1G Genesis launched.

The worst of the Great Recession was not yet over and the banks still really weren't lending $$.

You warranty will expire, or you will ready for a new car, before they have separate dealerships.

Pretty much this.

Initially Hyundai said that only about one half of USA dealers would sell the new Genesis brand, sort of like what happened with Equus.

They may or may not partition off dedicated areas depending on how much room they have. They were supposed to do that with Equus, but some dealers backed off that.

I think it will be at least 2020 before they have completely separate dealerships.

Dealerships who pass the muster to sell the Genesis brand will have to have a dedicated show room space (not sure yet if they will also require a separate service lounge) and the # of dealerships will be even lower than the current # that sell the Equus (Hyundai USA is shooting for around 300 dealerships).

Also for those that say you came from lexus or whatnot better brands and might switch back because of service I just dont get it...did you think hyundai was gonna have equal service that of lexus, mb, bmw, etc? you knew that you were buying into a brand that sucks right? But you bought the car because of the features and how nice the car was and priced compared to other luxury brand cars.

There are Lexus owners who are pissed b/c they are now being charged for loaners or they are peeved at the thought of their prestige brand vehicle being serviced next to lowly Toyotas.

 

[jimb100]

This discussion is actually pretty amusing. For the foreseeable future, not to much really changes. You go a Hyundai store to buy a Genesis. Of course, it will be interesting to listen to the dealer try to explain how a 2016 Genesis is a Hyundai and the 2017 Genesis sitting next to it is a different brand.

Once new Genesis dealerships actually open, the buying experience may be different. But that means nothing to those of us who already bought. And as far as buying again, buyers evaluate the car, competition, etc. as it exists when they want to make a purchase. Who buys a model of car from a dealer because he bought one with the same name years before without checking out the competition and the car?

The service experience may be different, but just how much different will it really be? Who knows?

As far as putting a G80 badge on in place of my 5.0 badge, just who is going to impressed by that?

Resale value? Unlikely to be any different than it would be if things stayed the same, as long as the cars are the same. The "books" have a way of evening things like that out.

But to have so much back and forth over what is essentially a non issue, only on the internet!

 

[GCyr42]

For the time being. the Genesis will be sold at existing Hyundai dealers (but not all Hyundai dealers). There are dealers that sell Chevy and GMC, Ford and Lincoln, etc at the same location, so it is not that unusual.

Check the following link for "Hyundai Signs First US Contract with Dealer for Genesis Brand":

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/h...act-with-dealer-for-genesis-brand-106528.html

And this quote from the article:
"The first Genesis models sold in the USA under the new brand are expected to arrive late this summer. They will be featured in an exclusive showroom, and potential customers will get personalized vehicle demonstrations. The latter will be performed by a certified team of trained professionals, and will include a valet service directed by certified Genesis brand service specialists.

Considering the above description of the facilities covered by the new Genesis dealer, it looks like Hyundai went through all the stops to ensure a premium experience for potential customers of its new premium branch.

The separation from Hyundai was a necessary step to ensure the success of the Genesis brand, as customers of premium vehicles might have avoided Hyundai showrooms until now because of their value brand reputation."

My two (and maybe three) closest Hyundai dealers sure don't meet the above criteria...

 

[Nikgen]

Check the following link for "Hyundai Signs First US Contract with Dealer for Genesis Brand":

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/h...act-with-dealer-for-genesis-brand-106528.html

And this quote from the article:
"The first Genesis models sold in the USA under the new brand are expected to arrive late this summer. They will be featured in an exclusive showroom, and potential customers will get personalized vehicle demonstrations. The latter will be performed by a certified team of trained professionals, and will include a valet service directed by certified Genesis brand service specialists.

Considering the above description of the facilities covered by the new Genesis dealer, it looks like Hyundai went through all the stops to ensure a premium experience for potential customers of its new premium branch.

The separation from Hyundai was a necessary step to ensure the success of the Genesis brand, as customers of premium vehicles might have avoided Hyundai showrooms until now because of their value brand reputation."

My two (and maybe three) closest Hyundai dealers sure don't meet the above criteria...

The dealer I just had my 2016 Genesis serviced at last week is listed as a Genesis dealer on the Genesis Motors USA site. They do not have a separate Genesis showroom nor do they have room to build one from what I saw - so feels like nothing is really changing.

I'll be back there next week for them to work on the rattling sunroof "feature", and will ask about how they will handle the new brand as it does not seem they have facilities as described above?

 

[Mark_888]

Check the following link for "Hyundai Signs First US Contract with Dealer for Genesis Brand":

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/h...act-with-dealer-for-genesis-brand-106528.html

And this quote from the article:
"The first Genesis models sold in the USA under the new brand are expected to arrive late this summer. They will be featured in an exclusive showroom, and potential customers will get personalized vehicle demonstrations. The latter will be performed by a certified team of trained professionals, and will include a valet service directed by certified Genesis brand service specialists.

Considering the above description of the facilities covered by the new Genesis dealer, it looks like Hyundai went through all the stops to ensure a premium experience for potential customers of its new premium branch.

The separation from Hyundai was a necessary step to ensure the success of the Genesis brand, as customers of premium vehicles might have avoided Hyundai showrooms until now because of their value brand reputation."

My two (and maybe three) closest Hyundai dealers sure don't meet the above criteria...

Apparently there are going to be some Genesis dealers early on, but it is not clear if they have to have completely separate facilities for everything and some may be right next door to an existing Hyundai dealer. Only Genesis dealers will sell the G90. G80 will be sold at both Genesis and Hyundai dealers for the time being:

According to Motor Trend:

"...the G80 midsize sedan, which is now on sale and will be available from both Genesis and Hyundai dealers for about five years until the next-generation G80 comes out on a dedicated Genesis platform.

The G90 rides on a new, dedicated Genesis platform and will only be sold by Genesis dealers. It will go on sale in early September."
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/g90/2017/2017-genesis-g90-first-drive-review/​

I suspect that a contract to become a Genesis dealer does not mean that all facilities will be completed by September (or any time close to that) in order to take delivery of the G90.

 

[Corpnupe85]

Per the responses, some of you have never encountered the "Luxury" experience of a MB, Lexus, Audi or BMW. Hyundai told us that they were developing a luxury division. If you are going to a luxury division, you don't alienate current customers! As soon as I can trade my vehicle, I am going to. I don't like some of the disrespectful comments on this forum attacking people for their opinions. This is my last post. You don't see this on the other luxury division forums.

 

[Nikgen]

Apparently there are going to be some Genesis dealers early on, but it is not clear if they have to have completely separate facilities for everything and some may be right next door to an existing Hyundai dealer. Only Genesis dealers will sell the G90. G80 will be sold at both Genesis and Hyundai dealers for the time being:

According to Motor Trend:

"...the G80 midsize sedan, which is now on sale and will be available from both Genesis and Hyundai dealers for about five years until the next-generation G80 comes out on a dedicated Genesis platform.​

Motor Trend also said this: "An optional 5.0-liter, direct-injected V-8 engine bumps the power up to 383 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque" which is completely backwards! Also, where do they get the 5 years from? If it will take 5 years for a new G80, they might as well not bother as they will be out of business given that would make it 7 years before a redesign???

Further, if true, it is a TERRIBLE idea to sell the G80 at both Hyundai and Genesis dealers. That undermines the whole idea of spinning Genesis off as a separate brand?

The G90 rides on a new, dedicated Genesis platform and will only be sold by Genesis dealers. It will go on sale in early September."
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/g90/2017/2017-genesis-g90-first-drive-review/

I suspect that a contract to become a Genesis dealer does not mean that all facilities will be completed by September (or any time close to that) in order to take delivery of the G90.

Again - not a great way to kick off a Luxury Brand relaunch - the cars will continue to be thought of as just expensive Hyundai's to many, with all of the baggage that comes along with that...