New Genesis Website

[Sal Collaziano]

Like Cleex024 said above - I have a feeling it's going to be a dealership by dealership kind of thing here. Some dealers are going to treat you like gold - some are not. Let's see what happens before we jump ship...

 

[Jaeger]

And as far as the depreciation...how much did you guys actually pay for your car? Did you actually pay the $53k for an ultimate? I would think that most people on the forums are pretty internet savvy and highly doubt anyone paid anywhere close to msrp. So your true depreciation is no where close to that....

An excellent point, and one so obvious it shouldn't even need to be made, but actually should be a sticky.

Like Cleex024 said above - I have a feeling it's going to be a dealership by dealership kind of thing here. Some dealers are going to treat you like gold - some are not. Let's see what happens before we jump ship...

An excellent point, and one so obvious it shouldn't even need to be made, but actually should be a sticky.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

An excellent point, and one so obvious it shouldn't even need to be made, but actually should be a sticky.

An excellent point, and one so obvious it shouldn't even need to be made, but actually should be a sticky.

Funny, funny, funny... But, yeah... Perhaps... Especially the point about depreciation and what we actually paid for these cars...

 

[TEF]

In defense of my remark concerning Genesis having the highest depreciation rate, it should be noted that sticker price was used for each the ten vehicles in the article (with Genesis being 38%). Whether one gets a discount or not, does not change the Genesis' ranking relative to the other ten - it's still the highest of the group. Moreover, I hardly think that Hyundai dealers are the only ones offering discounts to buyers. Therefore, if the figure was based on the discounted prices instead, Genesis owners would still experience larger depreciation than many other vehicles.

Having owned two Genesis ('09 and '16), while I obviously like the brand well enough, I somehow find it difficult to rationalize Hyundai's policy in this case. It appears to me that the company is discarding those very people that initially risk their money on an untried "luxury" vehicle from Korea. In return, Hyundai doesn't want to know them and expects to replace them with an entirely new customer base. Considering how Hyundai treated Ultimate buyers, I guess I should not be surprised by the website policy.

 

[cleex024]

In defense of my remark concerning Genesis having the highest depreciation rate, it should be noted that sticker price was used for each the ten vehicles in the article (with Genesis being 38%). Whether one gets a discount or not, does not change the Genesis' ranking relative to the other ten - it's still the highest of the group. Moreover, I hardly think that Hyundai dealers are the only ones offering discounts to buyers. Therefore, if the figure was based on the discounted prices instead, Genesis owners would still experience larger depreciation than many other vehicles.

Having owned two Genesis ('09 and '16), while I obviously like the brand well enough, I somehow find it difficult to rationalize Hyundai's policy in this case. It appears to me that the company is discarding those very people that initially risk their money on an untried "luxury" vehicle from Korea. In return, Hyundai doesn't want to know them and expects to replace them with an entirely new customer base. Considering how Hyundai treated Ultimate buyers, I guess I should not be surprised by the website policy.

What I still don't get is why you think you are being tossed away by Hyundai...besides not including you in their website log in is there anything else?

 

[xsolara]

Smart marketing tell me the the new Genesis brand should except older Genesis sedan brand as if they they were new customers. Genesis should honor warranty but not the fancy add on's that the 2017 will have. Genesis would have a better chance of attracting additional new car sales by treating the older Genesis customers as welcome guests

 

[Mike B]

yep!!!

 

[Mark_888]

Smart marketing tell me the the new Genesis brand should except older Genesis sedan brand as if they they were new customers. Genesis should honor warranty but not the fancy add on's that the 2017 will have. Genesis would have a better chance of attracting additional new car sales by treating the older Genesis customers as welcome guests

That would mean that Genesis dealers would have to carry parts for the older Genesis models for up to 10 more years, plus a bunch of other logistical issues. I would not be surprised if they reimburse Genesis dealers more (hourly rate) for warranty work than Hyundai does now.

You can certainly take your Hyundai Genesis to a Genesis dealer for oil changes, etc, but don't expect any $29 oil changes at a Genesis dealer.

 

[TEF]

What I still don't get is why you think you are being tossed away by Hyundai...besides not including you in their website log in is there anything else?

In a sense you've answered your own question. If it's only a website, then what's the reason Hyundai would ignore previous Genesis owners? Why not let us register along with new buyers? I suspect that the exclusionary treatment will go beyond that, but that's the gamble Hyundai seems willing to take. Do they court new buyers with their upscale brand or include existing buyers in the hope that they continue to purchase their cars? Consider also that if Hyundai continues to increase sticker prices with each successive model, it won't be long when our group considers an Infiniti or Lexus when buying for a replacement vehicle. At the risk of seeming repetitive, I still don't see the logic of Hyundai's marketing strategy in this instance.

 

[cleex024]

In a sense you've answered your own question. If it's only a website, then what's the reason Hyundai would ignore previous Genesis owners? Why not let us register along with new buyers? I suspect that the exclusionary treatment will go beyond that, but that's the gamble Hyundai seems willing to take. Do they court new buyers with their upscale brand or include existing buyers in the hope that they continue to purchase their cars? Consider also that if Hyundai continues to increase sticker prices with each successive model, it won't be long when our group considers an Infiniti or Lexus when buying for a replacement vehicle. At the risk of seeming repetitive, I still don't see the logic of Hyundai's marketing strategy in this instance.

I'm sure they have put much more thought into it than you make it out to be...whatever they are doing there is a reason behind it and millions of dollars.

Doubt they will just sweep us under the rug but if they did I'm sure there is a much better outcome for them than keeping us...I highly doubt you can make a better decision/resolution than they can.

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[Sal Collaziano]

Lexus was not looking for Toyota buyers. Genesis Motors is trying to attract people who buy more expensive cars. They're leaving Hyundai products for people who buy Hyundais. I'm sure when all is said and done - in a generation or two - the G80 will be priced outside the typical "Hyundai Genesis" buyers' grasp. That includes me.

 

[cleex024]

I just think people are getting too irrational and emotional right now...sure they may make some genesis owners upset but I highly doubt they will be making bad and wrong decisions. They will make decisions that will be the most profitable whether that be now our in the future.

They can't make everyone happy but most people will be as history has proven and as a whole Hyundai has made many "right" decisions which is why they are one of the biggest companies in Korea.

Just funny to see people who most likely work corporate jobs think they can make better decisions than a multi billion dollar company. I mean come on give Hyundai some credit lol.

 

[AustinTX]

Just funny to see people who most likely work corporate jobs think they can make better decisions than a multi billion dollar company. I mean come on give Hyundai some credit lol.

This is not in any way specific to Hyundai or anything in the context of cars, but there is plenty of proof that multi-billion dollar companies can make stupid decisions/mistakes. Look at the Ford Explorer roll over scandal, GM ignition scandal, the Takata airbag recall, or the recent VW emissions cheating issue. I can probably come up with a dozen more examples in 5 minutes.

Plenty of proof that multi-billion dollar companies can make really bad decisions.

And Acura and Infinity are proof that large companies can be seriously wrong about how to create a luxury brand - I would consider both of these companies to be poor attempts at trying to complete with the four German luxury marques (BMW, Audi, MB and Porsche) - the only company that has succeeded at this so far was Lexus, to an extend (you won't see many in Europe, they haven't arrived there). Jaguar, Land Rover and Cadillac are recovering, Volvo and Lincoln may be contenders, and Tesla is successful by trying something different.

Hyundai can go talk to people at Honda and Nissan about what it takes to build a luxury brand from nothing - so far only Toyota has had some success in establishing a new luxury brand in the past 30 years - and I would argue Tesla is successful, although with a very different approach.

There are plenty of things that can go wrong for Genesis, based on data from the last 30 years I think their chance of failure is bigger than that of success.

 

[Mark_888]

This is not in any way specific to Hyundai or anything in the context of cars, but there is plenty of proof that multi-billion dollar companies can make stupid decisions/mistakes. Look at the Ford Explorer roll over scandal, GM ignition scandal, the Takata airbag recall, or the recent VW emissions cheating issue. I can probably come up with a dozen more examples in 5 minutes.

Plenty of proof that multi-billion dollar companies can make really bad decisions.

And Acura and Infinity are proof that large companies can be seriously wrong about how to create a luxury brand - I would consider both of these companies to be poor attempts at trying to complete with the four German luxury marques (BMW, Audi, MB and Porsche) - the only company that has succeeded at this so far was Lexus, to an extend (you won't see many in Europe, they haven't arrived there). Jaguar, Land Rover and Cadillac are recovering, Volvo and Lincoln may be contenders, and Tesla is successful by trying something different.

Hyundai can go talk to people at Honda and Nissan about what it takes to build a luxury brand from nothing - so far only Toyota has had some success in establishing a new luxury brand in the past 30 years - and I would argue Tesla is successful, although with a very different approach.

There are plenty of things that can go wrong for Genesis, based on data from the last 30 years I think their chance of failure is bigger than that of success.

I think you are wrong about Acura. They created their brand before Lexus and were quite successful for a long time. The problem got to be that the design of their cars were just not very appealing to most people (in particular, they went off the deep end with their "beak" that the put on every grill in the Acura line). In particular it hurt their TL/TLX sales quite a bit.

Also, they never produced a RWD for their flagship sedan, which has hurt them and made the RLX an obscure sedan, even though the original Acura Legend was quite well respected and popular.

These days, Acura is selling quite a few RDX and MDX CUV/SUV's, so they are doing OK.

But for their first 15 years or so, they did quite well.

Tesla is creating a lot of excitement, but profitability remains very elusive.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

It IS correct that these large corporations can make bad decisions. Just look at Cadillac from not too long ago. But I understand where cleex024 is coming from. We're all a bunch of armchair executives - but that doesn't mean some of our ideas may not be better than the decisions made by Hyundai executives...

Personally, I think Hyundai is making the right decision by splitting up the divisions as much as possible. However, that is simply an opinion of some guy on a forum.

Lexus has done an excellent job at competing with "the big three" (Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi). I don't think either of the three Japanese brands are looking to compete with Porsche - just not their type of buyer at this point in time. In my opinion - Lexus will never be on par with the big three - but they'll remain "close". They offer luxurious automobiles with incredible reliability and extremely outstanding customer service. There will always be buyers who are more interested in these aspects than the prestige of owning one of the top brands.

Acura... Yes, they were the first Japanese luxury brand here in America. They did a very good job at first - still lagged behind Lexus - but their cars were respected. They did fall off the rails quite a bit a couple of generations ago with "the beak" grille. And while they do make very good luxury products - which are reliable - I don't hear anything special about customer service. They're currently making a comeback but I don't know how far they're going to go without an attainable halo vehicle like the S-Class. The NSX is an aspirational car but hardly anyone, percentage-wise, can afford it.

Infiniti... I think Infiniti is making the most effort to get back in the game. The G35/37 (now the Q50/60, I guess) really saved the brand. Everybody has one. And now there's a high performance twin turbo version. That's only going to help. The M35/56 was a GREAT midsize sedan but was just priced too high. Why buy the Infiniti M when you can buy the BMW 5-Series for a touch more? Like Acura, Infiniti does need a full-size car but there IS the Q70L (the new M) - which while not wider - is long enough for lots of legroom in the back. It's still not a Q45 replacement but it's better than what Acura is doing.

When all is said and done - Crossover SUVs are paving the way for success these days. This is why Genesis Motors really needs to get these products into showrooms quickly. This is one of the areas Cadillac is lagging so far behind in. They have ONE Crossover SUV - the XT5. And while it's nice - it's not enough. They need more. Acura and Infiniti have some pretty nice products here. Of course, so does Lexus - and more are coming out of their camp.

This is probably a better discussion for our "Around The Automotive Industry" forum - but it's not exactly going off topic here...

 

[cleex024]

This is not in any way specific to Hyundai or anything in the context of cars, but there is plenty of proof that multi-billion dollar companies can make stupid decisions/mistakes. Look at the Ford Explorer roll over scandal, GM ignition scandal, the Takata airbag recall, or the recent VW emissions cheating issue. I can probably come up with a dozen more examples in 5 minutes.

Plenty of proof that multi-billion dollar companies can make really bad decisions.

And Acura and Infinity are proof that large companies can be seriously wrong about how to create a luxury brand - I would consider both of these companies to be poor attempts at trying to complete with the four German luxury marques (BMW, Audi, MB and Porsche) - the only company that has succeeded at this so far was Lexus, to an extend (you won't see many in Europe, they haven't arrived there). Jaguar, Land Rover and Cadillac are recovering, Volvo and Lincoln may be contenders, and Tesla is successful by trying something different.

Hyundai can go talk to people at Honda and Nissan about what it takes to build a luxury brand from nothing - so far only Toyota has had some success in establishing a new luxury brand in the past 30 years - and I would argue Tesla is successful, although with a very different approach.

There are plenty of things that can go wrong for Genesis, based on data from the last 30 years I think their chance of failure is bigger than that of success.

I never said they don't make mistakes and all the mistakes you just pointed out are easy to point out hindsight. Sure I guess they could have tested all of those cars for an extra 5 years but that would not be profitable. But obviously some of the problems ended up extremely costly.

Also why do you think Acura and Infiniti are not successful? I'm pretty sure they didn't come out swinging for mb, bmw, Audi directly. Actually I think they are trying to do exactly what Hyundai is doing now...aiming for the people trying to step up but don't want to step up triple the costs of their cars.

Also I'm definitely not saying we can't make right decisions but we say things according to feelings and not actual research. These companies whether the right decision or not are putting millions of dollars and thousands of hours of research into these decisions that we are here just throwing up on the wind.

We really have no idea what is really going on and what plans they have and here we are trying to tell them what they are doing wrong and it's actually pretty funny if you think about it. People probably had same comments about Acura, Infiniti, and lexus before but here they still are. No matter how simple a solution is it's never that simple. It's easy for us to make a 2 second uneducated guess, but to these big companies that same guess would take much longer with tons of research...I guess they wouldn't really be guessing either.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

These companies whether the right decision or not are putting millions of dollars and thousands of hours of research into these decisions that we are here just throwing up on the wind.

I'm sure they did a LOT of research before making their decision. And again, I think they made the right decision for the future of their luxury brand. Whether I can afford a Genesis Motors product is irrelevant because other people can and will buy them. In any event, I have no issue with people expressing their opinion on this and don't expect anyone to change their point of view...

 

[Comp1]

I am not quite sure what people are mad about. It is not like Genesis built 100's of dedicated stores overnight and now provide free maintenance, loaner cars, Starbucks coffee, pastries, beautiful showrooms and waiting areas (for those with a 2017 Genesis product). Most if not all 2017 Genesis owners are still going to have to go back to the low rent Hyundai dealers for service and parts (while tripping over Accent owners). Free maintenance is not all its cracked up to be. You pay for that when you buy/lease the car so you really are not getting anything for free.

I haven't had a great service experience with my 15 Genesis so for me, its not going to matter. When my lease is up I'm heading somewhere else for the next car. Hyundai had some chances at making me a fan but blew it from day one. Offering a bunch of "perceived" freebies is not going to get me back into the brand, let alone a bright and shiny building (that may or may not even materialize).

 

[Mark_888]

In making a decision about whether to have the new (separate) Genesis dealerships honor the Hyundai Genesis warranties, a lot of people are thinking of all the marketing benefits, but don't really understand the costs and problems related to doing that. I am not saying I know exactly what the costs are either, but I am pretty sure it would be a lot more complicated and expensive than people realize.

As far as marketing decisions, Hyundai Motor America has done pretty well over the last 10 years. In particular, the current CEO (who is the former head of HMA marketing before becoming CEO) came up with the Hyundai Assurance Plan (originally that they would buy your car back at full price if you lost your job in the Great Recession, then later they guaranteed the trade-in value, etc).

The 10 year - 100K drivetrain warranty was also a marketing coup in my opinion. I don't think I would have bought a Genesis without it.

So, even though corporations do not always make the correct decision, I would say at this point only HMA knows all the benefits and costs of how to treat old Hyundai Genesis customers with regard to the new Genesis dealers. It's possible they made the wrong decision on that, but I would personally never presume that unless I listened to their side of the story first, before casting stones on their decision.