Whats the G70 pricing already !!

[GV70GUY]

You make some good points, marketing is the biggest hurdle Genesis faces today, cars like you mention like Mercedes, BMW, etc are not necessary better cars but as you say perceive by people that you must be someone special because you happen to drive one. Overseas in many countries the Mercedes is consider nothing more than as a Toyota is here. Also your point that people perceive them as more reliable than they are is true, these cars don't have a great reliability record but how many folks actually take the time to consider this factor. All they see is the BMW or Mercedes emblem.

No question Genesis has a tough road ahead, they need creative marketing, they need to do something that splashes their name across as many auto magazines as they can. Comparison tests against cars like the BMW can't hurt if they win. I remember Cadillac went after BMW with their ATS model and I bought one and honestly they failed and the ATS sales are hurting today.

Also as others have said they need a bigger product line than 2 or 3 cars to get people into their show room. SUV's will help but take a look at the size of the SUV market they have to compete against.

 

[dougjp]

You make some good points, marketing is the biggest hurdle Genesis faces today, cars like you mention like Mercedes, BMW, etc are not necessary better cars but as you say perceive by people that you must be someone special because you happen to drive one. Overseas in many countries the Mercedes is consider nothing more than as a Toyota is here. Also your point that people perceive them as more reliable than they are is true, these cars don't have a great reliability record but how many folks actually take the time to consider this factor. All they see is the BMW or Mercedes emblem.

No question Genesis has a tough road ahead, they need creative marketing, they need to do something that splashes their name across as many auto magazines as they can. Comparison tests against cars like the BMW can't hurt if they win. I remember Cadillac went after BMW with their ATS model and I bought one and honestly they failed and the ATS sales are hurting today.

Also as others have said they need a bigger product line than 2 or 3 cars to get people into their show room. SUV's will help but take a look at the size of the SUV market they have to compete against.

Agree. Another logical thing they need to do, because they are trying to make e commerce selling cars mainstream, is have a killer award winning web site. Currently its nothing comparatively except for being classy and good looking.

 

[turnne]

Well, you have an argument. I just priced a fully loaded G80 and it came to $60,860. If the G70 is fully loaded, and I'm comparing it to the Stinger, it's going to have a rough time justifying the price to its customers. The Stinger GT2 AWD (most expensive) is $52k. I would imagine Genesis would be a few thousand more because of the refinement but that will still put it towards the mid-high 50's.

The competitiveness is against other competition, not the G80. Now, if Genesis were to have a performance line similar to the M division and Brabus division, these prices would be competitive. I would venture to say that a $4k-$5k difference in top trim levels for the G70 and G80 is adequate. The difference between the G80 and G90 is a bit more at $14k. They wouldn't have that price difference with the G70 and G80 because that would put it at $45k in top trim. The entry point is what will give the G70 an edge. The G80 starts at $41k for the base model. That means the G70 would need to be in that $35k range.

Also, curious on your "established luxury brand pricing" comment. Are you saying established car company's can charge a premium? Established and reliable do not go hand-in-hand with German automakers. Why do you think everyone leases them? There premium is only in the badge they wear, not the craftsmanship. Any car you take care of goes for awhile. Some cheaper to maintain than others. Only asking because I'm curious, not arguing or saying you're wrong, I like the discussions.

In looking at sticker
You have to realize that they can and will discount heavily to move cars
IIRC there were those buying Hyundai Genesis V8's( pre G80) cars for $12K off the sticker

As far as your comment about "established" brands
I really doubt the leasing ratio is much different among cars in the same price class
really..there are a lot of people on here that have leased their Genesis cars

Then there is that resale factor of the 3 series
Look at a 5 year old 3 series and a Hyundai Genesis of the same mileage

About the same price new...but the BMW is not worth considerably more in the used car market

Warren

 

[BlancaGenny]

In looking at sticker
You have to realize that they can and will discount heavily to move cars
IIRC there were those buying Hyundai Genesis V8's( pre G80) cars for $12K off the sticker

As far as your comment about "established" brands
I really doubt the leasing ratio is much different among cars in the same price class
really..there are a lot of people on here that have leased their Genesis cars

Then there is that resale factor of the 3 series
Look at a 5 year old 3 series and a Hyundai Genesis of the same mileage

About the same price new...but the BMW is not worth considerably more in the used car market

Warren

I understand every dealership has the ability to discount a car but, if there's too many doing it, that shows the car is not worthy of the money. Do I think the G70 should be priced at Stinger prices? Yes. But that's conflicting since there is more "luxury" in the G70. If it's more, it runs into G80 territory.

The leasing aspect could be because it is a new brand. It could also be that people want lower payments and not be tied down to a loan which is understandable. Resale is simply dependent on a brand's image. Put Hyundai into the mix, terrible resale. BMW, different story as you pointed out. Perfect example is mine. I bought it a month or so ago as a CPO for $26k. There was a 2017 G80 with around 10k miles and it was selling for $41k; big difference from my "Hyundai" Genesis to the "Genesis" G80. The resale will be higher purely because it does not have a Hyundai badge on it anymore. Granted, Hyundai makes the car which I'm sure every owner knows as well as dealerships that have the vehicle traded in to them. They will benefit from it because they do not have to advertise the car anymore as a Hyundai. What a world we live in...

 

[dengen]

That may be what the hold up is but i do agree that around 55000 would be alot more attractive as like you said 55 and up you are looking at some premium cars with known track records and resale value witch is important to me

A Mercedes C43 retails at ~ $56k USD. With all the talk of "no discounts" for the g70, I think a lot of buyers are going to find it pretty hard to pick the g70 over a c43, which there may be incentives or discounts on.

BMW 340i starts at $48k USD MSRP.

I mean, cmon Genesis, you need to do more than compete - you need to comfortably win on price - it's a brand new brand from Hyundai

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An equivalent 340i xDrive is well over $70k...

At mid-high $50s the G70 is a steal for what you get.

I'm assuming this is CAD pricing, in the US 340ix seems to start around 50k.

Here is an actual price for a car for sale here in Denver:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/2017/BMW/340i+xDrive/Denver+CO-80201
Asking price = $53k USD

 

[mrich1353]

My concern as the G70 rolls out is the dealer network. I know a moving target, but it sounds like some of us will be many miles from a dealer that sells the G70. I am in fly over country PA and it is rumored through some reliable sources they are considering just two Genesis dealers in the state. Hyundai dealers will not be selling G70 or other new models. As I contemplate my next vehicle to replace my 2017 G80, I will likely go back to BMW.

 

[Buckdes]

A Mercedes C43 retails at ~ $56k USD. With all the talk of "no discounts" for the g70, I think a lot of buyers are going to find it pretty hard to pick the g70 over a c43, which there may be incentives or discounts on.

BMW 340i starts at $48k USD MSRP.

I mean, cmon Genesis, you need to do more than compete - you need to comfortably win on price - it's a brand new brand from Hyundai

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I'm assuming this is CAD pricing, in the US 340ix seems to start around 50k.

Here is an actual price for a car for sale here in Denver:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/2017/BMW/340i+xDrive/Denver+CO-80201
Asking price = $53k USD

Here in Canada i look at vehicle prices daily and a new c43 is listed minimum 65 or 66000 same with the bmw 340 and 440 but when negotiating you can usually get the final pricing closer between 60000 and 62000 but what hits you at mercedes and bmw are the interest rates so you either get a discount or low rate but my thought is Genesis should keep in mind you can get very low km lease returns and demo cars from theses dealers for cheaper than the estimated G70 price so i think that does play a factor

 

[Bamm1]

Well, you have an argument. I just priced a fully loaded G80 and it came to $60,860. If the G70 is fully loaded, and I'm comparing it to the Stinger, it's going to have a rough time justifying the price to its customers. The Stinger GT2 AWD (most expensive) is $52k. I would imagine Genesis would be a few thousand more because of the refinement but that will still put it towards the mid-high 50's.

The competitiveness is against other competition, not the G80. Now, if Genesis were to have a performance line similar to the M division and Brabus division, these prices would be competitive. I would venture to say that a $4k-$5k difference in top trim levels for the G70 and G80 is adequate. The difference between the G80 and G90 is a bit more at $14k. They wouldn't have that price difference with the G70 and G80 because that would put it at $45k in top trim. The entry point is what will give the G70 an edge. The G80 starts at $41k for the base model. That means the G70 would need to be in that $35k range.

I am completely on board with a few thousand more than the Stinger GT2 AWD for the highest trim/content level G70. That is why I stated that trying to be under the starting price of the Mercedes C43 AMG (at $54,495) was a good place to be price wise.

Also, curious on your "established luxury brand pricing" comment. Are you saying established car company's can charge a premium? Established and reliable do not go hand-in-hand with German automakers. Why do you think everyone leases them? There premium is only in the badge they wear, not the craftsmanship. Any car you take care of goes for awhile. Some cheaper to maintain than others. Only asking because I'm curious, not arguing or saying you're wrong, I like the discussions.

Yes, I am saying exactly that. A BMW badge raises the cost. The Genesis badge is not there yet but Hyundai is trying everything it can to get their own “badge tax”. Let me clarify that I don’t think the price premium is justified but people are paying it. I am also saying if the prices are “close enough” the average customer will almost always choose the German model. Even when there is a BIG price advantage (like with the G80 and G90) they are only getting conquest buys at 15% or less (depending on the German brand).

I don’t disagree with any of your criticisms of the German brands. I also agree with Genesis’s positive attributes (that is why I am on the Genesis forum). But, the general public is not there yet. Like it or not when people hear “Korean car company” they think Kia Sephia, not a top brand for reliability (JD Power and CR) that produces models (G90) that win car magazine comparison tests against BMW, Audi, etc. Maybe someday.

Hyundai/Genesis charges much less for more content with better reliability. Abandoning the cost portion of that equation is a huge mistake at this point in time. Brand (badge) perception becomes a VERY big factor when costs are closer. So when you are after a tiny slice of the shrinking market segment that is the compact luxury sedan space you better be VERY aggressive with your biggest differentiation factors. In this case those are price and content.

 

[BlancaGenny]

I am completely on board with a few thousand more than the Stinger GT2 AWD for the highest trim/content level G70. That is why I stated that trying to be under the starting price of the Mercedes C43 AMG (at $54,495) was a good place to be price wise.

Yes, I am saying exactly that. A BMW badge raises the cost. The Genesis badge is not there yet but Hyundai is trying everything it can to get their own “badge tax”. Let me clarify that I don’t think the price premium is justified but people are paying it. I am also saying if the prices are “close enough” the average customer will almost always choose the German model. Even when there is a BIG price advantage (like with the G80 and G90) they are only getting conquest buys at 15% or less (depending on the German brand).

I don’t disagree with any of your criticisms of the German brands. I also agree with Genesis’s positive attributes (that is why I am on the Genesis forum). But, the general public is not there yet. Like it or not when people hear “Korean car company” they think Kia Sephia, not a top brand for reliability (JD Power and CR) that produces models (G90) that win car magazine comparison tests against BMW, Audi, etc. Maybe someday.

Hyundai/Genesis charges much less for more content with better reliability. Abandoning the cost portion of that equation is a huge mistake at this point in time. Brand (badge) perception becomes a VERY big factor when costs are closer. So when you are after a tiny slice of the shrinking market segment that is the compact luxury sedan space you better be VERY aggressive with your biggest differentiation factors. In this case those are price and content.

If a C43 AMG is $54k, then Genesis is going to have some serious conflictions when it comes to a performance division with Genesis. There is about $9k difference from the C43 to the C300 Sport (normal version). They will have to cut costs or make the G70 Sport the top trim level. Entry prices will have to be even lower. And when I mean lower, like under $35k. The Stinger should have started at $28k. They kind of f****d themselves with pricing. It'll be interesting to see though.

HMC is overall now a competitor in any class vehicle. I think because of the resale values of Kia and Hyundai, second-hand buyers should be jumping all over the opportunities. It's the best BTB warranty hold the VW's new 6yr/72k BTB. The quality is simply better than what people think. They must have not sat or driven a KIA in the past 6 years or so. As more people come to the realization that they aren't cheap cars anymore, that's when prices will rise and everyone will miss out on the opportunity. Hence why I jumped on the Genesis before prices inflated. Very glad I did indeed!

 

[Bamm1]

If a C43 AMG is $54k, then Genesis is going to have some serious conflictions when it comes to a performance division with Genesis. There is about $9k difference from the C43 to the C300 Sport (normal version). They will have to cut costs or make the G70 Sport the top trim level. Entry prices will have to be even lower. And when I mean lower, like under $35k. The Stinger should have started at $28k. They kind of f****d themselves with pricing. It'll be interesting to see though.

HMC is overall now a competitor in any class vehicle. I think because of the resale values of Kia and Hyundai, second-hand buyers should be jumping all over the opportunities. It's the best BTB warranty hold the VW's new 6yr/72k BTB. The quality is simply better than what people think. They must have not sat or driven a KIA in the past 6 years or so. As more people come to the realization that they aren't cheap cars anymore, that's when prices will rise and everyone will miss out on the opportunity. Hence why I jumped on the Genesis before prices inflated. Very glad I did indeed!

As far as I am aware Genesis has no intention of producing N models like they are for the Hyundai division. But if they did then it would go like this:

G70 2.0T vs. MB C300
G70 3.3T vs. MB C43 AMG
G70 "N" vs. MB C63 AMG

So you would likely see it go over the 54k mark for the C63 competitor.

I think one of the bigger issues with the second-hand Kia/Hyundai's is the 10/100,000 warranty not transferring to the second owner. But if you can go with a CPO you can get it back. I also think that brand perception is really driving the depreciation hit. Sadly, the car doesn't actually have to be better. You just need people to think it is. With Hyundai/Kia you get burned by the reverse. They are actually good but not enough people think so.

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[devellis]

The only way to counter the perception of being a lesser brand is to be "disruptively better" in some respect. The Datsun 240Z is a good example. It was an affordable car that looked kind of like a Ferrari at a time when the Saab Sonnet was the closest thing to an exotic-looking sports car that most buyers could contemplate affording. Quality was abysmal when they first arrived in the US but they drove beautifully by the standards of the day, where quick, fun, sporty, gorgeous, and affordable. That gave them the toe hold they needed. Quality improved. Prices rose. And nearly a half-century later, the Nissan Z is still around.

The G70 isn't disruptively better in any comparable way. It's incrementally better in many ways but that isn't enough for it to go head-to-head with established brands right out of the gate. Aggressive pricing, however, can make it disruptively better, and like the Z, that can lead to continued success down the road by letting the car gain traction in the marketplace.

 

[Blue Train]

It's incrementally better in many ways but that isn't enough for it to go head-to-head with established brands right out of the gate. Aggressive pricing, however, can make it disruptively better, and like the Z, that can lead to continued success down the road by letting the car gain traction in the marketplace.

I guess the question is if Genesis can learn from Cadillac and Alfa flailing in this segment... Both went after the Germans with a decent product, but priced their offerings as if they were established winners. Given the pricing of the Stinger I'm not convinced the pricing of the G70 is going to be that aggressive unless they're heavily discounting from MSRP.

 

[GenesisYEG]

I'm assuming this is CAD pricing, in the US 340ix seems to start around 50k.

Definitely CAD.

Here in Canada i look at vehicle prices daily and a new c43 is listed minimum 65 or 66000 same with the bmw 340 and 440 but when negotiating you can usually get the final pricing closer between 60000 and 62000 but what hits you at mercedes and bmw are the interest rates so you either get a discount or low rate but my thought is Genesis should keep in mind you can get very low km lease returns and demo cars from theses dealers for cheaper than the estimated G70 price so i think that does play a factor

A C43 AMG with the same features as the G70 3.3T Sport (i.e. loaded) is $72,629.00 CAD (online code MVW9EJPB) before dealership fees, and any dealer add-ons. A loaded G70 3.3T Sport will be high $50s with no delivery/destination, dealer fees, or dealer add-ons, and includes free maintenance for the warranty and valet service, amongst other things. The C43 is a good car but you're paying a pretty penny for the badge and this is coming from someone who has only personally owned German cars in the past & present.

 

[BlancaGenny]

I guess the question is if Genesis can learn from Cadillac and Alfa flailing in this segment... Both went after the Germans with a decent product, but priced their offerings as if they were established winners. Given the pricing of the Stinger I'm not convinced the pricing of the G70 is going to be that aggressive unless they're heavily discounting from MSRP.

As your first post, that is in incredibly accurate. Cadillac is only in business because of snob appeal. It's a Chevy wrapped in gold. However, your average car buyer doesn't know that so they buy so the can say they own a Cadillac.

I have a hard time thinking of the people that will buy a G70. The prices are just not competitive enough. If the Stinger would have topped out at $45k and then the G70 arrived at $50k, there would be no issue with the G70. I can argue that the G70 is worth every penny at $50k. Having to dig around and find reasons the G70 will most likely be $60k at top trim level is a stretch. Alfa is purely failing because of reliability reasons and the lack of service departments in the U.S. There is a guy that lives near me and has a silver Guilia. It's the only Alfa in town. I was looking at purchasing one but the closest ones near me were in Denver (400 miles). I'm not going to take the chance on a car I may have to service every month especially at $40k.

The G70 will win at base model pricing, not top trim level. Top trims will be leased and have a 48-50% residual selling at under $30k after 3 years. CPO is how we will get a bargain off of this and the Stinger. I am not bashing anyone who leases or buys the G70 at MSRP, only an opinion.

Cheers,
Dan

 

[GV70GUY]

As your first post, that is in incredibly accurate. Cadillac is only in business because of snob appeal. It's a Chevy wrapped in gold. However, your average car buyer doesn't know that so they buy so the can say they own a Cadillac.

I have a hard time thinking of the people that will buy a G70. The prices are just not competitive enough. If the Stinger would have topped out at $45k and then the G70 arrived at $50k, there would be no issue with the G70. I can argue that the G70 is worth every penny at $50k. Having to dig around and find reasons the G70 will most likely be $60k at top trim level is a stretch. Alfa is purely failing because of reliability reasons and the lack of service departments in the U.S. There is a guy that lives near me and has a silver Guilia. It's the only Alfa in town. I was looking at purchasing one but the closest ones near me were in Denver (400 miles). I'm not going to take the chance on a car I may have to service every month especially at $40k.

The G70 will win at base model pricing, not top trim level. Top trims will be leased and have a 48-50% residual selling at under $30k after 3 years. CPO is how we will get a bargain off of this and the Stinger. I am not bashing anyone who leases or buys the G70 at MSRP, only an opinion.

Cheers,
Dan

You make some good points, the G70 is entering a very competitive luxury 4 door sedan market. People looking to spend $50K are willing to pay the emblem royalty fee so they can tell their co-works, friends and neighbors they drive a BMW, Lexus, Audi, etc. Anyone of these people will immediate equate luxury and dollars and yes maybe even being a little bit of a snob. Tell these same people you paid $50K for a Genesis and many if not most will have that deer in the headlight look.

Also as you pointed out one of Alfa's problems is finding a dealership close by. If Hyundai forces dealers to have a separate Genesis dealership and or building how many Genesis dealers will there be? On top of that if you only have the one near you and you don't like them then what?

Be interesting to know what volume Genesis is shooting for with the G70 in the US and as it looks right now it will be fall before you even start seeing them showing up at dealerships which isn't the best time of year with winter, holidays, etc.

When I look at Genesis I kind of equate them to the MINI brand, there is only 1 dealership in my area and still 30 minutes away. But they have their own showroom and MINI overall sells around 4,000 a month. They have 8 models of basically the same car. But MINI is one of those fun cars that is very recognizable on the road.

Genesis has a tough road ahead, gear heads will buy the car because they do the research, they understand the value and aren't stuck on the emblem snobbery. Remember Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura also had to go though the growing pains as will Genesis they will just have to hang on and stay committed for the long haul.

Also note now the Chinese are going to start introducing luxury cars to the US this year.

 

[devellis]

Having owned both, I've always found better value in Japanese than in European offerings. Not sure if there's a "snob tax" on European cars, whether they face higher labor costs, or whether the market will just carry the higher prices but I've never felt the VW's or BMW's I've owned ( a couple of each) were particularly good values. Honestly, they're purchases I regretted. On the other hand, the Subarus my wife has had and the Infinitis I've had were all excellent values.

I think the perception of Korean cars is in a transitional stage much like the Japanese cars were when they were stepping out of the bottom-tier role into making better cars. Their cars clearly are better than they were several years ago. But they're clearly not as well established as the major Japanese brands and certainly not yet comparable in reputation to the premium Japanese brands like Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura. I think they're the real competition, more than BMW or Mercedes. Comparisons are often made to the latter two but I honestly think it's Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura buyers who will most seriously consider a Genesis G70.

Infiniti may be the closest because of its emphasis on rear-wheel and all-wheel models with a decidedly performance personality. I know, as I consider what my next car will be, Infiniti is certainly on my "to consider" list and is probably the closest competitor to Genesis for my attention. There are several things I prefer about the Genesis, but Infiniti is discounting aggressively these days and my ownership experience with them has been excellent. If Genesis can beat them on street price, then it's in the running. If it can't, then getting another Infiniti (like the Red Sport 400) with a 400 HP engine from a dealer I know and trust and an excellent support network behind it becomes all the more attractive. Truly, I like what the Genesis offers more. But I consider it more of an unknown and pricing will be a critical factor in the final decision. Both are really nice cars and each has its advantages. So price becomes a major issue.

 

[Blue Train]

I have a hard time thinking of the people that will buy a G70. The prices are just not competitive enough. If the Stinger would have topped out at $45k and then the G70 arrived at $50k, there would be no issue with the G70. I can argue that the G70 is worth every penny at $50k. Having to dig around and find reasons the G70 will most likely be $60k at top trim level is a stretch.

I don't see how the G70 3.3 can be priced in a way that sells against the Germans but doesn't cannibalize Stinger sales. There are $53k Stingers sitting on Kia lots here. The buyer looking at the German offerings at $53k can choose between a larger engine or a loaded turbo 4. Kia gives both at that price, so I understand where they are coming from in a purely numbers-on-paper level. I think the G70 is much more stylish inside and out than the Stinger, but from a "new" brand with an unknown dealer network. This seems like a wash to me; what premium is that going to command? At $60k the buyer can get a pretty well-equipped 340xi or C43. Why are they going to choose the G70 if it's within a few grand of that?

 

[jailer]

There are $53k Stingers sitting on Kia lots here.

I don't know who in the hell would pay that when the Stinger 3.3 GT is on TruCar for 38k. Also on AutoTrader.

https://amexnetwork.truecar.com/con...lse&cancelOverlays=true&showColorOverlay=true

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The LOADED GT2 with everything you can add.... Nappa and all electronic safety this and that.... adaptive electric suspension.... is showing 48k .

 

[dougjp]

2 currencies, 2 prices, locations unknown (can be changed in "settings" by the way) Confusion reigns!

 

[BlancaGenny]

Also as you pointed out one of Alfa's problems is finding a dealership close by. If Hyundai forces dealers to have a separate Genesis dealership and or building how many Genesis dealers will there be? On top of that if you only have the one near you and you don't like them then what?

Genesis has a tough road ahead, gear heads will buy the car because they do the research, they understand the value and aren't stuck on the emblem snobbery. Remember Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura also had to go though the growing pains as will Genesis they will just have to hang on and stay committed for the long haul.

There is only one Hyundai dealership in Rapid. Closest other one may be in Cheyenne, WY or Sioux Falls. I traveled to Minneapolis to buy my Genesis. I'm sure Hyundai and Genesis will have a service agreement on how long they will service the Genesis brand. They may even keep the service entirely along with having the Genesis dealership.

I wouldn't own a Lexus because it's a Toyota, I've had an Infiniti, and I wouldn't buy an Acura because it's a Honda. I think Genesis has the brand image already but they need more support and advertisements. People like the cars and now that they don't have the Hyundai emblem on them, they'll buy them. It's a shame to say but that's the way the world goes 'round.