Lug nut removal without key

[Mark_888]

The easy way to get the locking lug nuts off is go downtown, look for the corner with several people standing around and offer them 20 bucks to take them off.

Downtown Mathews, NC? Are you talking about Gomer and Barney?

 

[pmckechnie]

Change the Matthews to Anytown and you got it.

 

[PMCErnie]

Confused? The guy who sold him the car should be responsible for providing the key or getting the wheel locks removed.

Yes, confused that any rational person would go to that extent (Small Claims Court) to save <=$40.00.

 

[EdP]

Who said he bought it "as is"? I must have missed that. Was "as is" on the sales contract? Don't know what you mean by "where is" since a car is mobile.

Note I said "if". There may or may not have been a contract. As for "where is". not every car is mobile. I've bought two that were not at time of purchase. It was my obligation to move them. I've bought and sold running cars with the understanding if it breaks down after going 10 feet, tough. No warranty given or implied.
We also don't know if the guy he bought it from even knew it had locking lugs when he sold it. Sure, take him to small claims court. The filing fee here is $95. Then you take a day out of your life to go to court to recover the $40 you spent to get them removed. But hey, you have the right to do it.

 

[Mark_888]

Note I said "if". There may or may not have been a contract. As for "where is". not every car is mobile. I've bought two that were not at time of purchase. It was my obligation to move them. I've bought and sold running cars with the understanding if it breaks down after going 10 feet, tough. No warranty given or implied.
We also don't know if the guy he bought it from even knew it had locking lugs when he sold it. Sure, take him to small claims court. The filing fee here is $95. Then you take a day out of your life to go to court to recover the $40 you spent to get them removed. But hey, you have the right to do it.

The guy you sue will have to take a day out of his life (maybe an exaggeration?), and would likely settle if threatened to take it to court. The loser has to pay court costs of the winner.

 

[EdP]

The guy you sue will have to take a day out of his life (maybe an exaggeration?), and would likely settle if threatened to take it to court. The loser has to pay court costs of the winner.

No, the guy does not have to go, he can just pay the claim or get a judgment that you then have to try and collect. I'm not so petty to bring a claim for such a petty annoyance just to get even. Maybe if I could get on Judge Judy I would. I someone tried to sue me for $40 you can bet I'd make it difficult and expensive for him to collect.

The "as is, where is" clause is frequently used in the sale of goods and property and the seller has no liability and the buyer has the obligation to remove the item to where he wants it. You accept the goods even if defects are not known or visible.

 

[Mark_888]

No, the guy does not have to go, he can just pay the claim or get a judgment that you then have to try and collect. I'm not so petty to bring a claim for such a petty annoyance just to get even. Maybe if I could get on Judge Judy I would. I someone tried to sue me for $40 you can bet I'd make it difficult and expensive for him to collect.

The "as is, where is" clause is frequently used in the sale of goods and property and the seller has no liability and the buyer has the obligation to remove the item to where he wants it. You accept the goods even if defects are not known or visible.

I am aware of "as is" but I am pretty sure that was not the case in this transaction. Neither is "where is," even if you may have done such a transaction at one time.

 

[EdP]

I am aware of "as is" but I am pretty sure that was not the case in this transaction. Neither is "where is," even if you may have done such a transaction at one time.

Maybe or maybe not. In court can you prove deception? Fraud? Negligence? Any sort of devious behavior? Or would you just be admitting you did not properly inspect the vehicle you bought? I doubt the seller intentionally hid the key or refused to give it over. I'd file it under "stuff happens" and move on.

 

[Mark_888]

Maybe or maybe not. In court can you prove deception? Fraud? Negligence? Any sort of devious behavior? Or would you just be admitting you did not properly inspect the vehicle you bought? I doubt the seller intentionally hid the key or refused to give it over. I'd file it under "stuff happens" and move on.

Since the seller is in the business of selling cars even if only a few of them ("the car was a private sale through a guy that buys and sells a few cars a year"), any sale includes an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose. A car that includes a wheel that cannot be removed because the key is not included would not pass that test.

 

[EdP]

Since the seller is in the business of selling cars even if only a few of them ("the car was a private sale through a guy that buys and sells a few cars a year"), any sale includes an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose. A car that includes a wheel that cannot be removed because the key is not included would not pass that test.

What makes you think he is in the business? I know a couple of guys that do that as a sideline. One guy has a car parked in front of his house at times with a sale sigh on it but he is not in the business. These guys invest a couple of hours detailing and $20 worth of wax and cleaner. The seller probably had no idea that the car had locks on it. Again. unless you saw the bill of sale nothing is implied. he is just a guy making a private sale. Another potential problem is the taxes. Private sales are often made for more than what the paperwork shows. If you saved 6% on the other couple of thousand bucks do you want to stir that up?

If you want to chase a $40 problem in court, you have the right to do so but if you step back and look at the entire situation, there is no way you can come out ahead. Best you can do is go back and bitch to the guy and hope he give you the money. If not, the time and effort to get it is going to take a lot of your time and effort that can be put to better use. You can come up with all the possible legal scenarios you want but unless you saw the paperwork it is conjecture and no matter the outcome, you won't come out ahead chasing 40 bucks. There are better ways to get an orgasm with much less time and effort.

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[Mark_888]

What makes you think he is in the business? I know a couple of guys that do that as a sideline.

Even if it is done as a sideline, it is a business.
https://www.nolo.com/dictionary/sideline-business-term.html

 

[EdP]

Even if it is done as a sideline, it is a business.
https://www.nolo.com/dictionary/sideline-business-term.html

Prove it in court. You'd have to in order to prove your fitness at time of sale theory. What will you show as evidence? Yep, I bought this car for my wife but she did not like it so I cleaned it up and sold it "as is". Sorry, I had no idea it had wheel locks. Do you want to invest $95 to make a $40 claim and risk a loss? No matter how sure you are, the judge may not see it your way.

Without the bill of sale, it's all moot anyway. That is the key to a legal resolve.

 

[Mark_888]

... so I cleaned it up and sold it "as is".

Where do you keep coming up the idea that the car was sold "as is"? Do you have any proof of that?

 

[EdP]

Where do you keep coming up the idea that the car was sold "as is"? Do you have any proof of that?

Same proof you have that a warranty is implied. What proof can you show?

- - - Updated - - -

Where do you keep coming up the idea that the car was sold "as is"? Do you have any proof of that?

Same proof you have that a warranty is implied. What proof can you show? It was a private sale and neither of us has seen the paperwork. Private sale is negotiated between the buyer and seller directly. Nothing is implied.
You have the right to take the seller to court, but seems kind of silly to me.

Here, Mr. Google told me this:
Private sales usually are not covered by the "implied warranties" of state law. That means a private sale probably will be on an "as is" basis, unless your purchase agreement with the seller specifically states otherwise. ... The car may be covered by a manufacturer's warranty or a separately purchased service contract.

 

[Mark_888]

Same proof you have that a warranty is implied. What proof can you show?

- - - Updated - - -



Same proof you have that a warranty is implied. What proof can you show? It was a private sale and neither of us has seen the paperwork. Private sale is negotiated between the buyer and seller directly. Nothing is implied.
You have the right to take the seller to court, but seems kind of silly to me.

Here, Mr. Google told me this:
Private sales usually are not covered by the "implied warranties" of state law. That means a private sale probably will be on an "as is" basis, unless your purchase agreement with the seller specifically states otherwise. ... The car may be covered by a manufacturer's warranty or a separately purchased service contract.

All goods sold by a business (even a side business) that are not explicitly labeled "as is" have an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose:
http://www.businessdictionary.com/d...anty-of-fitness-for-a-particular-purpose.html

There is also an implied warranty of merchantability.

Here is a discussion of the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) that discusses these implied warranties, and that these implied warranties can only be ignored if the goods are expressly sold "as is".
http://www.caddenfuller.com/Article...nties-Under-the-Uniform-Commercial-Code.shtml

If someone buys and sells several cars per year, that sounds like a side-business, and not a "private" sale, because in all likelihood, the seller in this case buys and sells cars to make money, not just to dispose of their personal car (even if they drive the car for a short time). But maybe the OP can clarify that. But if a judge ruled that the seller in this case was not running a business (or even side business), then you would be correct that there are no implied warranties according to the UCC.

 

[PMCErnie]

Also, if the seller did not install those wheel locks he has absolutely no culpability. Of course, if Mark888 wants to hire F. Lee Bailey and Johnny Cochran that is certainly his right. I say NUTS to that!

 

[Rey]

Removing lug nut locks is EZ Peasy if you have the right tool: IRWIN HANSON BOLT-GRIP Bolt Extractor Base Set, 5 Piece, 394001. This tool is a "spiral grove" socket that fits over the offending bolt (lug nut) and tightens down as you turn it counter clockwise.
This tool is not well known. Most dealers and tire shops not only do not have this tool, but also have never known its existence. My local tire shop used it to remove a stubborn lug nut, which defied my dealer. My local tire shop claimed that this is a "secret tool" implying only available to certain professionals. Not true - Amazon sells it.

 

[gpjlytham]

I don't remember if i signed something saying that the car was sold "as is". if i did I didn't get a copy of it, however I didn't expect it to have any warranty, he was just a guy selling a car and not a large dealer. I am sure the guy i bought the car from had no idea that the car had locking wheel nuts and no key. The car was a great deal and is in great condition. it cost me approx. $10 to buy 4 regular wheel nuts from O'Reilly's and after i worked out how to get them off without a key it took me only a few mins to replace them. I run a business, rent a number of properties and have sold many cars privately over the years and I would be amazed if someone took me to court over a $10 charge.

another issue was; the car came with only one Key fob and the car has the keyless start option. I wasn't too worried about the key as I was sure i could get one for a few $'s. Boy was I wrong. I called the dealer and with programming and key cutting it was approx $600.... now that is crazy.... I was able to get a Chinese knock off and got it programmed locally for approx $135. I thought $135 was a lot, but i purchased the car with the understanding that it only had one key. so my bad.

The car was still a good deal, way below KBB, and it is a fun car.

Has anyone tried autox in a 4.6 Genesis?

 

[Audio]

Jesus ****ing Christ Mark.... you can be helpful but you also sure like instigating shit and get REALLY defensive if anyone hints you're wrong.

Now, this may vary by state, but for the most part it does not.
A private sale, by default, does not come with any warranty or guarantee implied. Unless the documentation says otherwise, that's how it is.
Also, "does this on the side a few cars per year" doesn't mean it's a side BUSINESS.
I happen to go through cars fairly quick, and sometimes even purchase a flip or two in a year. Hell, I have 2 in my garage right now. Most states have a law on how many cars per year you can sell without a dealer license. If you are below that threshold, no business license or any special rules apply. You are just a guy selling a couple cars you don't want or need. Period. No business, no warranty, no promises, no liability once the bill of sale is signed.

Also, and this part doesn't vary from state to state: Taking someone to small claims court because they didn't disclose that your car had wheel locks and either lost or didn't even know about a key(they may have never even removed the wheels while it was in their possession), is petty, hilariously childish, and honestly supporting such an absurd notion makes you seem like all the other sue-happy people out there that just can't leave other people alone or make their own damn way in the world.

 

[Mark_888]

A private sale, by default, does not come with any warranty or guarantee implied. Unless the documentation says otherwise, that's how it is. Also, "does this on the side a few cars per year" doesn't mean it's a side BUSINESS.

I have agreed that a true private sale does not come with those implied warranties, and I stated so above.

As to whether a person who engages in a part time business of buying and selling a few cars per year is a business or not, you and I disagree on that one. How about buying and selling a few houses per year? Where do you draw the line? I know the IRS code (having been a CPA), and it sounds like a business to me, even if it is part time. It is not necessary to open a storefront to have a business, and it can be operated out of one's home, and it doesn't make it a private sale just because of that.

Also, I doubt the seller was truthful when he said that he didn't know before the sale that the wheel lock key was missing. When it comes to selling automobiles and real estate, if their lips are moving they are often lying. I didn't say I would take a person to court for not disclosing the wheel locks, I said I would take them to court if they did not provide a key, or pay for them to be removed, after the sale.

In any case, even though you don't agree with me, that is no reason to bring religion or profanity into this. I don't mind you disagreeing with me about about the accuracy of what I said, but your comments go beyond a discussion of these issues, and are clearly personal attacks in violation of the forum rules.