Lug nut removal without key

[Audio]

Where do you draw the line? I know the IRS code (having been a CPA), and it sounds like a business to me, even if it is part time. It is not necessary to open a storefront to have a business, and it can be operated out of one's home, and it doesn't make it a private sale just because of that.

I draw the line where the law does. If they do not need to register as a business to legally sell a couple cars in a year, they are not a business. Again, the actual law varies from state to state, but as an example, if my state says that a private party can sell 5 cars per year without needing to do a single lick of legal paperwork to become a car sales business, then those 5 cars are private sales.

I sold my personal beater last week.
My wife's cousin's car had a repair bill she couldn't afford so I bought the car off her, and will probably sell it in a week, once I fix it.
I also have a Cavalier in the garage I bought with a bad steering column, and once that's fixed I'll probably sell it as well.

So that's 3 cars within a month and a half most likely. Well within the law for private sales, all being sold with n implied warranty, and all cars registered me as a private owner and not a business per no requirement for me to do such a thing to sell 3 cars.

That's where the line gets drawn...literally where the law clearly draws it.

 

[Mark_888]

I draw the line where the law does. If they do not need to register as a business to legally sell a couple cars in a year, they are not a business. Again, the actual law varies from state to state, but as an example, if my state says that a private party can sell 5 cars per year without needing to do a single lick of legal paperwork to become a car sales business, then those 5 cars are private sales.

I sold my personal beater last week.
My wife's cousin's car had a repair bill she couldn't afford so I bought the car off her, and will probably sell it in a week, once I fix it.
I also have a Cavalier in the garage I bought with a bad steering column, and once that's fixed I'll probably sell it as well.

So that's 3 cars within a month and a half most likely. Well within the law for private sales, all being sold with n implied warranty, and all cars registered me as a private owner and not a business per no requirement for me to do such a thing to sell 3 cars.

That's where the line gets drawn...literally where the law clearly draws it.

I agree it depends on where the law draws the line. But which law?

There may be a difference between whether one is registered as "car sales business" by a state (and therefore subject to various state laws for that type of business), and whether it is just a general business where one has to pay federal and state taxes on any profit from buying, fixing, and selling cars (as should be reported to the IRS as business income, or at least as a capital gain if no expenses were incurred to fix them up). I can guarantee you that the IRS says you owe taxes if you make a profit on even one car. I don’t expect that everyone who sells a few cars per year will actually report the net profit as income on their tax return, but that is what the IRS law says you are required to do.

So you may not be subject to special state regulations for being a "car sales business" but still subject to the Uniform Commercial Code. But that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong, and a court may rule against me. But that’s no reason to make personal attacks against me. I personally would have gone back to the seller and asked them to remove the locks or pay for having the locks removed, unless the sales contract said it was sold “as is.”

 

[Audio]

Tax code is one thing. Are you required to report any earnings as income and pay taxes? definitely. Private sale or not. That doesn't change liability in a situation like this though. Also, my expression of "jesus ****ing christ" was not an attack, it was an exclamation lol. Only thing I got "personal" about was maybe calling you sue-happy. If you're fishing for an apology 2 comments later, that's fine. I can be an adult about that just as much as I can be an adult about using whatever language I want(the site filters out naughty words for those who don't like seeing them). I am sorry if anything I said came off as a personal attack, that was not my intention.

 

[Mark_888]

Tax code is one thing. Are you required to report any earnings as income and pay taxes? definitely. Private sale or not. That doesn't change liability in a situation like this though. Also, my expression of "jesus ****ing christ" was not an attack, it was an exclamation lol. Only thing I got "personal" about was maybe calling you sue-happy. If you're fishing for an apology 2 comments later, that's fine. I can be an adult about that just as much as I can be an adult about using whatever language I want(the site filters out naughty words for those who don't like seeing them). I am sorry if anything I said came off as a personal attack, that was not my intention.

I am not fishing for anything, only stating what I would have done if I bought a car and later found out the wheel lock key was missing.

I wasn't expecting an apology, but it was nice of you to do so. I just think it is best for this forum to stay away from any personal, religious, or other stuff.

 

[EdP]

So you may not be subject to special state regulations for being a "car sales business" but still subject to the Uniform Commercial Code. But that's just my opinion,

Jumping back in. . .
That may well be a business under UCC though a sideline, but you would have to prove it in court. Unless there is a paper trail that you can find, or other buyers as witnesses, the seller can easily deny it. Even if you show the car was bought a week or two earlier and then sold, it can and has happened. For a minor loss it is not very practical to do all the work required.

Side note. . . strange thing happen in car sales. Bought a '64 Pontiac Tempest for $100. Drove it for a year after fixing a distributor problem, sold it back to the original owner for $150.

 

[Audio]

I just think it is best for this forum to stay away from any personal, religious, or other stuff.

Amen to that.

 

[Gunkk]

Same thing happened to me as the OP when I bought my 2012 used from a Lexus dealer. No I didn't check. No I didn't sue the Lexus dealer in small claims court. No I didn't even waste my time to drive down there and complain, since I knew they could and would do nothing about it.

Took me an hour round trip to drive to my Hyundai dealer service center, buy a $25 set of nuts, and the mechanic took off the lock nut for free.

Yep that's right, included free with the lugs I had to buy anyway to replace the locking nuts.

Gettel Hyundai on Bee Ridge in Sarasota.

 

[Mcc]

Same thing happened to me as the OP when I bought my 2012 used from a Lexus dealer. No I didn't check. No I didn't sue the Lexus dealer in small claims court. No I didn't even waste my time to drive down there and complain, since I knew they could and would do nothing about it.

Took me an hour round trip to drive to my Hyundai dealer service center, buy a $25 set of nuts, and the mechanic took off the lock nut for free.

Yep that's right, included free with the lugs I had to buy anyway to replace the locking nuts.

Gettel Hyundai on Bee Ridge in Sarasota.

A happy conclusion. Good on ya.

 

[G-871066]

Take it to a tire shop like Discount Tire and ask their opinion. You should buy some non-locking OEM lug nuts before-hand and have them available for when you are able to get the locking nuts removed.

Personally, I would take the guy to small claims court.

Only a total douche bag would take someone to small claims court over a wheel lock