Alternatives to G70?

[devellis]

Actually, it depends on the specific car, I think. I've had a couple of BMWs (a Z3 that I drove and a 323 that my wife drove) and neither was high on the luxury barometer. Sure the 7-series is luxurious but dollar-for-dollar, I never considered the BMW terribly luxurious in comparison to some of its competitors. My brother was part-owner of a dealership that sold Mercedes and he used to say that "German cows must not be happy" (a reference to the "happy cows" ads for California dairy products) as a way of noting that the leather in Mercedes and BMW always felt more utilitarian than luxurious in comparison to comparable Japanese cars. Jaguar also seems to get the luxury concept better than BMW. And BMW in particular has a way of withholding features on lesser models (true of Jaguar, too) to create a differentiation between those and the higher-tier models. My wife's current Subaru Outback V6 has more nice little luxury touches and nicer leather than her BMW did, by far. With every Japanese car I've owned, I had the experience of finding little features that I hadn't expected, that weren't touted in the advertising lieterature. With the German cars, it was just the opposite. Stuff I'd assumed (like that both the driver and passenger seats were powered) would turn out not to be there.

Of course, the highest tier of German luxury cars are loaded with nice features and materials. But at the level of the G70, I've not found the BMW or Mercedes (ridden in literally dozens of them when my brother was still in the business; and my sister owned several) to stand out in terms of luxury. Nor have I found the touted "German engineering" to be that great. The German cars I've owned (VWs and BMWs) were more problematic than any of the Japanese cars I've owned, with failures of major components being commonplace with them. Even the notoriously problematic RX-7 rotaries (three of them) I've owned were far more reliable (actually, pretty trouble-free in my case) than the German cars. And, again, my brother never felt that Mercedes (which is the brand he was most strongly associated with when he was in the car business) was great at reliability. The company was hugely innovative and would come up with ideas that other manufacturers would then copy, often implementing them more reliably than Mercedes had.

Audis do seem to do much better with luxury. Not so much with reliability.

Of course, no car is perfect and it's always a matter trading off some things for others. Different drivers will judge some aspects of a car to be more important that other drivers will. For me, once a car has the features I want, additional "luxury" really doesn't enhance its value. But I certainly know other people for whom more luxury touches are really important. Wood grain trim (real or fake) on the interior has never been a factor that influenced my buying decisions in the least. But I know other people who are wild about it. We're all a bit different.

 

[theoracle101]

To each their own, the purpose of my question was about comparing G70 vs IS350 as luxury cars, not to argue about respective merits of Mercedes and Audi as luxury cars (which I've had worse experience with).

Also to be more clear, I was defining luxury as the opposite of a spartan, sport car. More forigiving suspension, more plush interior, etc.

I agree with the above posted. BMW as a luxury car compared to the asian models, seriously? Audi has great interiors but I wouldn't describe the models I've had geared towards comfort over performance. Mercedes is the one brand that focuses more on luxury, but the price point is always significantly higher than what comes standard on asian models.

 

[joneillnj]

Audis do seem to do much better with luxury. Not so much with reliability.

Actually, you should read up on current stats as Audi has been known for good reliability for a while now - CR shows them as having higher predicted reliability than Genesis - and that is with 10 models (including a full range of SUV/CUV's). They've turned that old stigma on reliability around:

Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles?

 

[Blue Train]

I think the new 2019 bmw 3 (G20) series will be the biggest target drawn up within genesis HQ. If the new CLAR architecture brings back the sportiness of their earlier years, I don't see G70 making a big splash as it hoped for, especially if the US release of the G70 is delayed until it coincides with the G20 release. I wonder if BMW will also have a better lease program off the gate than the g70.

BMW has a lot of ground to make up in the G20. And given the way their other cars are going, I think the driving dynamics are not something they really care about in their non-M product. Their customers don't seem to care, either.

 

[Gen127]

Actually, you should read up on current stats as Audi has been known for good reliability for a while now... They've turned that old stigma on reliability around

This is the same challenge facing Hyundai/Genesis.

 

[joneillnj]

This is the same challenge facing Hyundai/Genesis.

Not exactly. I don't think Genesis has a reliability challenge - they have a brand perception problem from being associated with Hyundai. Right or wrong, most people associate Hyundai with cheap cars.

In my opinion, that's why it was a mistake to sell Genesis vehicles in Hyundai dealerships as it just reinforced the association and, unfortunately, the stigma. So, by extension, there is no "cachet" associated with the Genesis brand yet due to that connection.

Audi started to shift upmarket to compete with MB and BMW back in the 90's so they have had a 20 + year headstart to establish themselves as a serious player in the luxury/performance segment. Genesis will get there in time IF they make great product and distance the Brand from Hyundai.

 

[YEH]

I've sold some IS350s before.

What I like about it:

• More rear legroom compared to the G70

That doesn't bode well for the US market which places a premium on interior space; concerned that Genesis made the same mistake that Cadillac and Jag did w/ the ATS and XE (overly focused on driving dynamics at the expense of packaging/interior space).

Chopping 4 inches off the (Stinger ) platform instead of 6 would have made a diff.

aguar also seems to get the luxury concept better than BMW.

Jag used to, but these days not so much.

A combination of BMW upping the lux factor (in its latest models) and Jag having focused too much on performance and spending too much $$ on lightweight platforms (BMW has as well with its CLAR architecture, but they are better able to garner the efficiencies of scale) - where the XE and XF not only are lacking in passenger space, but interior appointment.

Not exactly. I don't think Genesis has a reliability challenge - they have a brand perception problem from being associated with Hyundai. Right or wrong, most people associate Hyundai with cheap cars.

In my opinion, that's why it was a mistake to sell Genesis vehicles in Hyundai dealerships as it just reinforced the association and, unfortunately, the stigma. So, by extension, there is no "cachet" associated with the Genesis brand yet due to that connection.

There really wasn't much of another choice at the time.

Audi started to shift upmarket to compete with MB and BMW back in the 90's so they have had a 20 + year headstart to establish themselves as a serious player in the luxury/performance segment. Genesis will get there in time IF they make great product and distance the Brand from Hyundai.

While Audi has made major strides the past 2 decades, they still struggle to compete with their German brethren at the higher end of the market.

The A6/A8 lag quite a bit behind the 5/7er, much less the E/S Class.

It's been at the lower end of the market and w/ CUVs where they have made the most gains.

 

[devellis]

Interesting that so many here seem to favor luxury over performance. I'm just the opposite. Just goes to show the challenges of wooing customers to a new "luxury sports sedan."

The term means different things to different people and no car can really do it all. The selectable driving modes that Genesis and others have implemented is a nod in the direction of allowing drivers to tune the car to their needs and desires. But stuff like overall size, weight, addition of "luxury" materials to the interior, etc., are necessarily fixed aspects of the car. Some of that can vary depending on which version of a car you get (e.g., the "De Luxe" vs. the "Sport" configuration), but things like weight are pretty much dialed into the design.

Many feel that the traditional sport sedans, like the BMW, have gone too far toward the luxury end, offering softer rides at the expense of crisper performance, for example. Sure, you can go to the M series and get better performance, but at a price. Genesis has tried to find a comfortable space in the mix of features that are associated with "Luxury sports sedans." We'll eventually find out how successfully they've targeted the car to the market.

 

[BlancaGenny]

Not exactly. I don't think Genesis has a reliability challenge - they have a brand perception problem from being associated with Hyundai. Right or wrong, most people associate Hyundai with cheap cars.

In my opinion, that's why it was a mistake to sell Genesis vehicles in Hyundai dealerships as it just reinforced the association and, unfortunately, the stigma. So, by extension, there is no "cachet" associated with the Genesis brand yet due to that connection.

Audi started to shift upmarket to compete with MB and BMW back in the 90's so they have had a 20 + year headstart to establish themselves as a serious player in the luxury/performance segment. Genesis will get there in time IF they make great product and distance the Brand from Hyundai.

I think the brand perception has almost entirely gone away since the brand Genesis has been it's "own" entity. The Hyundai Genesis would have sold much better if they had started the brand in the US market when they did in Korea. It's the fact the H symbol is not longer on the car for other's to see. Yes, I'm sure there are Hyundai stickers and parts that have the H symbol engraved on them but if it's a Genesis car, the perception just won't be there anymore. I'm glad Hyundai made the move as they will undoubtedly sell more of their cars in the Genesis brand than if they were sold as Hyundais (we won't know for sure but I have a hunch).

 

[KDX]

Interesting that so many here seem to favor luxury over performance. I'm just the opposite. Just goes to show the challenges of wooing customers to a new "luxury sports sedan."

The term means different things to different people and no car can really do it all. The selectable driving modes that Genesis and others have implemented is a nod in the direction of allowing drivers to tune the car to their needs and desires. But stuff like overall size, weight, addition of "luxury" materials to the interior, etc., are necessarily fixed aspects of the car. Some of that can vary depending on which version of a car you get (e.g., the "De Luxe" vs. the "Sport" configuration), but things like weight are pretty much dialed into the design.

Many feel that the traditional sport sedans, like the BMW, have gone too far toward the luxury end, offering softer rides at the expense of crisper performance, for example. Sure, you can go to the M series and get better performance, but at a price. Genesis has tried to find a comfortable space in the mix of features that are associated with "Luxury sports sedans." We'll eventually find out how successfully they've targeted the car to the market.

I was talking to my Genesis rep the other day and he has sold 5 of the Sport versions already. 2 or 3 of the sales (can't remember which) were to BMW owners. I laughed.

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[Stephen5242]

I was talking to my Genesis rep the other day and he has sold 5 of the Sport versions already. 2 or 3 of the sales (can't remember which) were to BMW owners. I laughed.

I am a BMW owner looking very hard at this as well. Wish they had a comparable SUV to compete with the X3. But it is hard not to look when you can get the luxury, performance and probably better reliability for at least 15k cheaper than from BMW.

 

[BlancaGenny]

I am a BMW owner looking very hard at this as well. Wish they had a comparable SUV to compete with the X3. But it is hard not to look when you can get the luxury, performance and probably better reliability for at least 15k cheaper than from BMW.

Get one now before they are priced like the other 3 (BMW, Merc, Audi)

 

[devellis]

I am a BMW owner looking very hard at this as well. Wish they had a comparable SUV to compete with the X3. But it is hard not to look when you can get the luxury, performance and probably better reliability for at least 15k cheaper than from BMW.

That's true for Canada.

For the US, we don't yet know what the pricing will be. But it'll be crucial. If the car truly is a bargain for what it offers, they'll succeed in getting people who've been loyal to other brands to look at Genesis. If the prices are too high, all the barriers a new company faces will prevent a lot of people from taking that first look, or if they do, from committing to an unknown quantity.

Honestly, Genesis can do better than a lot of the brands they will be competing against. The key will be pricing, I think. Many of those brands (I've owned a few) have lost their souls and inflated prices to an extent that a fair number in their customer base may well start looking elsewhere. But the first thing that will capture their attention is really attractive pricing for cars that are comparable to what they would be buying from their old brand. The main problem I see with the German cars, for example, isn't that they're bad cars but that you have to pay too much for what you get. If the model of Genesis that a current BMW or Mercedes owner would actually choose to own is too close in price to what they've driven in the past from established makers, they will be reluctant to plunge into unknown territory. I know that's how I'm feeling. But if the pricing is really aggressive, then people will be willing to take the gamble.

And that gamble doesn't only entail the quality of the G70 or how many bells and whistles it has. It also involves service, parts availability, company reputation, resale value, possible regional prejudice, pride of ownership, and belief in the long-term viability of the marque. The key to overcoming those concerns in the long term is to get everything right. But in the short term, it's a matter of offering excellent value so that people are willing to put some of those other issues aside. And if they blow the short term, they may never get the opportunity to nail the long term.

 

[joneillnj]

I think the brand perception has almost entirely gone away since the brand Genesis has been it's "own" entity. The Hyundai Genesis would have sold much better if they had started the brand in the US market when they did in Korea. It's the fact the H symbol is not longer on the car for other's to see. Yes, I'm sure there are Hyundai stickers and parts that have the H symbol engraved on them but if it's a Genesis car, the perception just won't be there anymore. I'm glad Hyundai made the move as they will undoubtedly sell more of their cars in the Genesis brand than if they were sold as Hyundais (we won't know for sure but I have a hunch).

I disagree as Genesis is still sold through Hyundai dealerships - in my opinion, until that changes, the association and resultant Hyundai baggage for many potential buyers will not go away. Remember - like it or not, a big part of why folks buy MB, Audi, BMW, etc., is as a status symbol to impress others with their "success" - no one is impressed with an expensive Huyundai (at least not yet). Also, it seems from what others have posted here that they sold more G80's when it was a Hyundai Genesis verus since it has been rebadged as a Genesis G80.

 

[Edmguy]

How has no one mentioned cross shopping with Lexus IS350 ?

I looked at the IS350 as well. Never really too serious as I didn't personally like the look, but I wanted to compare it.

The IS definitely has an edge in refinement over the G70 and if you prefer a smooth ride, it is better. But aside from that I think just about everything else on the G70 is better. My biggest dislikes on the IS was the horrible entertainment system and controller (although I did like the screen size), and the lake of power especially down low from the engine.

 

[Edmguy]

I disagree as Genesis is still sold through Hyundai dealerships - in my opinion, until that changes, the association and resultant Hyundai baggage for many potential buyers will not go away. Remember - like it or not, a big part of why folks buy MB, Audi, BMW, etc., is as a status symbol to impress others with their "success" - no one is impressed with an expensive Huyundai (at least not yet). Also, it seems from what others have posted here that they sold more G80's when it was a Hyundai Genesis verus since it has been rebadged as a Genesis G80.

Don't say no one is impressed because I came from having 4 new BMW's in a row with the last two costing considerably more than my G70 and I was impressed and don't miss driving a BMW at all.

Although I do get harassed about things like "did you lose your job" when people find out what I bought lol

 

[joneillnj]

Don't say no one is impressed because I came from having 4 new BMW's in a row with the last two costing considerably more than my G70 and I was impressed and don't miss driving a BMW at all.

Although I do get harassed about things like "did you lose your job" when people find out what I bought lol

I didn't mean buyers won't be impressed with their own purchase (or else why would they buy) - but the comments you received is exactly what I'm talking about in terms of overall brand perception - they still have a ways to go.

 

[KDX]

I am a BMW owner looking very hard at this as well. Wish they had a comparable SUV to compete with the X3. But it is hard not to look when you can get the luxury, performance and probably better reliability for at least 15k cheaper than from BMW.

From what I've seen on the videos (with the Genesis Canada rep), there will be a coupe and 2 SUVs by 2021, with the coupe being last if I remember right.

 

[KDX]

I disagree as Genesis is still sold through Hyundai dealerships - in my opinion, until that changes, the association and resultant Hyundai baggage for many potential buyers will not go away. Remember - like it or not, a big part of why folks buy MB, Audi, BMW, etc., is as a status symbol to impress others with their "success" - no one is impressed with an expensive Huyundai (at least not yet). Also, it seems from what others have posted here that they sold more G80's when it was a Hyundai Genesis verus since it has been rebadged as a Genesis G80.

Personally, I like to get the most bang for my buck and I think the G70 succeeds in that respect. I'm also a bit of a rebel, I don't follow the crowd and the G70 succeeds in that respect also. As far as being some douche that needs to impress people with a BMW etc, I could care less what people think.

 

[Stephen5242]

I disagree as Genesis is still sold through Hyundai dealerships - in my opinion, until that changes, the association and resultant Hyundai baggage for many potential buyers will not go away. Remember - like it or not, a big part of why folks buy MB, Audi, BMW, etc., is as a status symbol to impress others with their "success" - no one is impressed with an expensive Huyundai (at least not yet). Also, it seems from what others have posted here that they sold more G80's when it was a Hyundai Genesis verus since it has been rebadged as a Genesis G80.

I think if you had a few BMWs over the years and you keep them a long time then you are more likely disappointing in the quality and the higher repair costs associated with them. If you can afford to trade every three years when the warranty has run out then you have not been exposed to the perils of ownership and will probably stay with the Germans.

I had a 540i before my current 335i and I took my father into a Hyundai dealership to see the then Hyundai Genesis that I thought was so close to the luxury and performance of my 540i. He bought it 6 years ago and it has been his favorite car with very little issues. He continually laughs at me for spending so much more for BMW and having high maintenance costs along with replacing the water pump, starter, battery etc. in five years. I keep my cars for a long time (8-10 Years) and would like to stop having to put so much more money in them. I had Japanese cars when I was younger with little to no problems over the years, but not the excitement of my BMWs. I think that Genesis will give me both. Although I would still like to have a showroom here or a dealer so I can see the colours, the rims and different models before deciding now that they are no longer sold through the Hyundai dealership. I know under the web model they will be serviced through the local Hyundai dealership, Genesis just has them pick up the car so that the owners don't have to be seen at the Hyundai dealership. I don't care who services the vehicle as long as they are honest and good. Can't always say that about the local BMW stealership as we only have one in our province.