Engine Check Light issue due to Fuel Cap

[Nitro]

Hi guys,
I was doing a bit of research and found this awesome place and let me start by saying that this is a great forum from the looks of it. Ok first some information and then I'll get into the problem.
I bought a 2011 1G 3.8 Hyundai Genesis Sedan with only 29k miles on the odometer. Very clean car and I must admit I fell in love with it the moment I saw and drove it. Am in Dubai and we get 2 types of cars here of this model. The GCC (Middle East spec) and the American spec. The GCC spec is always twice the price of the American spec and I didn't see the need to pay double for it so I bought the American spec (used) from another car owner.
The car runs fine, I have only had it for a month but I always look forward to using it as it rides lovely and quiet but has the power to leave most cars behind when I am feeling naughty.
So now the problem :
I filled it up after the first week I had it and 2 things happened. The gas guy filled it up once and then topped it till the last bit as well. (Had I known that the engine check light would come on because of that, I naturally would have stopped him). So anyway, the engine check light came on and after dowloading the manual I found out that I should not have done that so I was waiting for the fuel level to come down so the check light will go away. But a quarter of fuel has been used but the light is still there. So I looked at the manual again and it says that if the fuel cap is loose the light will also come on and I tried to close the cap properly so I could get that 'one click' sound. Now here is the problem, I think that gas guy in his over efficiency, messed up the fuel cap. As now whenever I try and close the cap, I get that one click sound when I turn it clockwise, but then it automatically comes back counter clockwise and gives me another click sound. I have tried a bit of blunt force and different rotation techniques also but for every click to close the cap, I get another click that signifies that it has been opened again. I did notice a few threads here about this fuel cap issue with this model so now I need your advice :
1. Should I just buy another fuel cap and see if that will make the ECL go away?
2. Should I try and do a Software Update so the light goes away? I am an IT guy so if anyone can point me in the right direction as to how to get the software and how to hook it up with my laptop, I am sure I will be able to do it myself.
3. Or should I just bite the expensive bullet and take it the authorized Hyundai dealership and let them charge me a fortune because the moment they see an American Spec car, I am sure their eyes will light up with $ signs.
4. I could go back and beat up the gas guy but I am sure poor bloke didn't even know what he was doing so I guess it was my fault to not to fill the car myself.
Any advice will of course be highly appreciated
Thank you in advance.
Nitro

 

[Nitro]

Btw, I just saw this :
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm?action_number=PE13033&SearchType=QuickSearch&summary=true
How do I check my VOQ number and should
I be worried?

 

[dmitriylm]

I recommend first clearing the CEL/code yourself first. You can do this with a cheap bluetooth OBD2 dongle and the Torque android app which will also tell you what the code is specifically for (or any number of other PC based programs). You can also buy all in one code readers specifically designed for this task or have a shop reset it for you (doesn't have to be a Hyundai shop). Disconnecting the negative battery terminal should have a similar effect.

 

[landtuna]

My 2012 gas cap will sound one click when turned clockwise. Releasing it will cause it to return a little bit counter-clockwise with a second click. That seems normal.

 

[Nitro]

Hey dmitri and landtuna
Thanks for the awesome feedback guys. It certainly pointed me in the right direction. The cap clicking back once I have clicked it close was certainly helpful as I stopped wasting my time on that issue and went online to get a Bluetooth ODB2 connector. Found one for about 18$ just 20 minutes away. Guy also had a couple of American cars and he had this cheap one as well as a proper wired professional OBD2 tool as well. Anyway, I had downloaded a few apps onto my iPhone before leaving so I tried hooking the BT to my phone right then but it would only connect but none of the apps would recognize the connection. Anyway, the dude selling it had an android phone and he had a few apps already installed, so he just opened Torque up and cleared the ECL. He said that I might need to get an Android tablet for any future troubleshooting.
So the lights gone and I am SO happy.
But about that link that I posted earlier. How do I know if my brakes won't fail on me? What on earth is a VOQ number?

 

[landtuna]

Btw, I just saw this :
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/p...r=PE13033&SearchType=QuickSearch&summary=true
How do I check my VOQ number and should
I be worried?

I could not find a definitive meaning of 'VOQ' so I browsed through the info contained in the NHTSA site for Genesis and found the brake fluid recall notice. I don't know if that is the one you are asking about or not.

Basically, the brake fluid used in 2009-early 2012 Genesis sedans was causing corrosion of elements inside the brake system which would result in either a soft pedal or loss of braking. A recall for affected vehicles was issued and the brake fluid and corroded elements replaced and the recall is now closed.

If you are worried about a particular car just take the VIN to any Hyundai dealer and they can see if there are any active recalls on that vehicle.

 

[Man of Mystery]

VOQ = Vehicle Owners Questionnaire.

It's an NHTSA form.

"When you call the Hotline to report a vehicle-related safety issue, you will be asked to provide certain critical information that agency technical staff needs to evaluate the problem. The information you provide is filed on a Vehicle Owner’s Questionnaire (VOQ), entered into the agency’s consumer-complaint database, and forwarded to NHTSA technical staff for evaluation.

VOQs filed through the Hotline will be mailed to you for verification of data. In addition, you will receive an explanation of how your report will be used, as well as a request for written authorization allowing NHTSA to provide your personal identifiers (e.g., name, address and telephone number) to the manufacturer of the alleged defective product you own. Note that you are not required to provide such authorization. However, sometimes sharing this information with the manufacturer can help facilitate the recall process."

 

[guybo]

When a fuel tank is over filled, often times (when it has not been done too many times) it'll take care of itself. The raw gas in the evap cannister will clear itself out in time. But if done too many times, it'll ruin the evap system. Runt he car for a few weeks and under-fill the tank- hopefully there's no lasting damage.

If you do need a gas cap, make sure you get a real Hyundai gas cap or a high quality aftermarket gas cap. Gas caps now are more than just a cap for the tank, there is real engineering in that stupid thing.

You have the OBD2 port reader and app now- what's the code?

 

[Nitro]

I could not find a definitive meaning of 'VOQ' so I browsed through the info contained in the NHTSA site for Genesis and found the brake fluid recall notice. I don't know if that is the one you are asking about or not.

Basically, the brake fluid used in 2009-early 2012 Genesis sedans was causing corrosion of elements inside the brake system which would result in either a soft pedal or loss of braking. A recall for affected vehicles was issued and the brake fluid and corroded elements replaced and the recall is now closed.

If you are worried about a particular car just take the VIN to any Hyundai dealer and they can see if there are any active recalls on that vehicle.

Hey Landtuna, yeah thats what I was referring to. So how do I know if my vehicle is affected or not? The car is not in the states, its in Dubai now and the local Hyundai Stealership dont give any info about non-GCC cars and frankly I dont think they have any info on Amercian cars anyway. I just bought the car as it has a GCC cousin hence I know all parts are available here you know.
I did run the VIN (KMHGC4DE1BU145221) through nicb.org before I bought the car but all I got back was no record of no theft and no total loss.

VOQ = Vehicle Owners Questionnaire.

It's an NHTSA form.

"When you call the Hotline to report a vehicle-related safety issue, you will be asked to provide certain critical information that agency technical staff needs to evaluate the problem. The information you provide is filed on a Vehicle Owner’s Questionnaire (VOQ), entered into the agency’s consumer-complaint database, and forwarded to NHTSA technical staff for evaluation.

VOQs filed through the Hotline will be mailed to you for verification of data. In addition, you will receive an explanation of how your report will be used, as well as a request for written authorization allowing NHTSA to provide your personal identifiers (e.g., name, address and telephone number) to the manufacturer of the alleged defective product you own. Note that you are not required to provide such authorization. However, sometimes sharing this information with the manufacturer can help facilitate the recall process."

Hey Bob, thanks for the awesome info my friend. So a car which has already been for the recall and back, will it have some form of manufacturer stamp / seal etc on it somewhere?

When a fuel tank is over filled, often times (when it has not been done too many times) it'll take care of itself. The raw gas in the evap cannister will clear itself out in time. But if done too many times, it'll ruin the evap system. Runt he car for a few weeks and under-fill the tank- hopefully there's no lasting damage.

If you do need a gas cap, make sure you get a real Hyundai gas cap or a high quality aftermarket gas cap. Gas caps now are more than just a cap for the tank, there is real engineering in that stupid thing.

You have the OBD2 port reader and app now- what's the code?

Guybo, yeah I was thinking the same thing that I would run the car a few times through half filled gas tanks but yesterday I just went ahead and got the CEL flashed. Now the thing is, since I didnt have the proper app (I had an iphone and I am led to believe that iphones are not too crazy about these chinese BTs and these apps) the guy who I bought the chinese BT off of just used his Android phone. We didnt get back any error code as he was running the Lite version of Torque. So we just selected clear the code and which it did. Since then the light hasnt come back so I dont think its the gas cap anymore, although I agree with you that I always go for original parts. No use in buying such a nicely engineered car, in which so much time and thought has gone, and then messing it all up with a non-original part.

 

[ntp888@comcast.net]

could have a leak in the lines that cause the engine light to come on. I replace my gas cap on my 09 with oem and still the engine light came on. Need to do a smoke test to find the leak.

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[Mr. Incredible]

chances are that topping off the tank damaged the Vapor Canister (aka Charcoal Canister) for the return fuel system.

This canister is designed to take fuel vapor and return it back into the sealed system thus keeping it out of the atmosphere, Charcoal pellets in the canister absorb the harmful fumes emanating from the car’s fuel system and store them until the engine burns them when it is running.

The canister is normally black and is placed in one of the far corners of the engine compartment. However, some car manufacturers mount the canister closer to the fuel tank so as to maximize efficiency.


By over filling the tank, the canister likely has liquid fuel in it, and is now causing the system to throw the CEL because the vapors can not recirculate into the motor.

 

[ntp888@comcast.net]

chance are that topping off the tank damaged the Vapor Canister (aka Charcoal Canister) for the return fuel system.

This canister is designed to take fuel vapor and return it back into the sealed system thus keeping it out of the atmosphere, Charcoal pellets in the canister absorb the harmful fumes emanating from the car’s fuel system and store them until the engine burns them when it is running.

The canister is normally black and is placed in one of the far corners of the engine compartment. However, some car manufacturers mount the canister closer to the fuel tank so as to maximize efficiency.


By over filling the tank, the canister likely has liquid fuel in it, and is now causing the system to throw the CEL because the vapors can not recirculate into the motor.

thanks for the quick response. hopefully the owners manual will tell me where that is located and i can get a new one.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

thanks for the quick response. hopefully the owners manual will tell me where that is located and i can get a new one.

likely will need the SERVICE manual for that, the owners manual won't have specifics on the engine parts or locations.

it is #1 in this illustration:

Emission Components for 2011 Hyundai Genesis | hyundaiparts


hopefully someone here has the service manual and can get you a copy of the section, it is most likely at the rear of the car near the fuel tank probably tucked up inside the fender lining on the OPPOSITE side of the fuel door, (so if the gas tank filler is on the drivers side, the canister is likely on the passenger side).

 

[ntp888@comcast.net]

likely will need the SERVICE manual for that, the owners manual won't have specifics on the engine parts or locations.

it is #1 in this illustration:

Emission Components for 2011 Hyundai Genesis | hyundaiparts


hopefully someone here has the service manual and can get you a copy of the section, it is most likely at the rear of the car near the fuel tank probably tucked up inside the fender lining on the OPPOSITE side of the fuel door, (so if the gas tank filler is on the drivers side, the canister is likely on the passenger side).

ok, thank you again I will ck it tomorrow.

 

[ntp888@comcast.net]

ok, thank you again I will ck it tomorrow.

you seem to be very knowledgeable, do u know anything about a bulletin that put out about battery discharge. My battery is dead everyday. Put a new battery in and had the guy at autozone do a test. he said all was fine. 3 months later still dying everyday again. took it to my local guy. he said it's the body control modules. he said one of them, and there are about 10, is not shutting off the cars electrical system. He gave me the bulletin which say b1602 or 1603 are the culprit. How do i repair that or is that dealer issue.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

you seem to be very knowledgeable, do u know anything about a bulletin that put out about battery discharge. My battery is dead everyday. Put a new battery in and had the guy at autozone do a test. he said all was fine. 3 months later still dying everyday again. took it to my local guy. he said it's the body control modules. he said one of them, and there are about 10, is not shutting off the cars electrical system. He gave me the bulletin which say b1602 or 1603 are the culprit. How do i repair that or is that dealer issue.

Yes I’m a certified ASE tech, though I haven’t worked in the field in 7 years. But I spent near 20 years working for Chrysler and GM.



B1602 coincides with B1603 at all time.
B1602 is an error on the bus for the smart key.
B1603 is a communication error between can bus models



to me is sounds like there might be a short in the IPM - inter panel module, aka theft module or alarm. And the PDM - power distribution module.


Do you park in your garage at home? If you do where do you keep the key in relation to the car, some people keep the key near the vehicle or in the vehicle and this results in the smart key keeping the CAN BUS alive and active.

It is also possible then ipm has a short which is keeping it alive, though I find this unlikely unless you have added some type of aftermarket alarm or remote start that is spliced into the IPM.


You said this was a used car, so it’s possible the previous owner did have something wired in and removed it, might have left something disconnected or shorted. Loose or exposed wire.


I would start at the IPM module. That’s going to be under the steering column, on the left. Found a picture of it online.

 

[ntp888@comcast.net]

parked in the garage. key in the house. no aftermarket alarm that I know of. so when I check this ipm thing how would I recognize a short? I

Yes I’m a certified ASE tech, though I haven’t worked in the field in 7 years. But I spent near 20 years working for Chrysler and GM.



B1602 coincides with B1603 at all time.
B1602 is an error on the bus for the smart key.
B1603 is a communication error between can bus models



to me is sounds like there might be a short in the IPM - inter panel module, aka theft module or alarm. And the PDM - power distribution module.


Do you park in your garage at home? If you do where do you keep the key in relation to the car, some people keep the key near the vehicle or in the vehicle and this results in the smart key keeping the CAN BUS alive and active.

It is also possible then ipm has a short which is keeping it alive, though I find this unlikely unless you have added some type of aftermarket alarm or remote start that is spliced into the IPM.


You said this was a used car, so it’s possible the previous owner did have something wired in and removed it, might have left something disconnected or shorted. Loose or exposed wire.


I would start at the IPM module. That’s going to be under the steering column, on the left. Found a picture of it online.

View attachment 14426

I park in my garage and key is in the house. no aftermarket alarm that I know of. I will check to see if the IPM is loose but beyond that what else should I do?

 

[Mr. Incredible]

parked in the garage. key in the house. no aftermarket alarm that I know of. so when I check this ipm thing how would I recognize a short? I


I park in my garage and key is in the house. no aftermarket alarm that I know of. I will check to see if the IPM is loose but beyond that what else should I do?

Well you yourself would look for damaged or cut wires.


A tech/mechanic would need the proper tools to check the voltage on the power and can bus lines.

The service manual would be of help because it will tell you what voltages are supposed to be on the lines during different states of the ignition. Meaning can bus usually is 5 volts when active and 0 volts when off, power is 12 volts. Etc.

Each line would have a positive and a negative for its connection, and there are can bus high and low, power, ground, etc.


I found this online for you which is helpful to a point, but you really need a service manual and a qualified electrical tech to troubleshoot the issue.

AutoHex Online Help: Hyundai GENESIS(BH) 2012 Fault Code: b1602

 

[ntp888@comcast.net]

Well you yourself would look for damaged or cut wires.


A tech/mechanic would need the proper tools to check the voltage on the power and can bus lines.

The service manual would be of help because it will tell you what voltages are supposed to be on the lines during different states of the ignition. Meaning can bus usually is 5 volts when active and 0 volts when off, power is 12 volts. Etc.

Each line would have a positive and a negative for its connection, and there are can bus high and low, power, ground, etc.


I found this online for you which is helpful to a point, but you really need a service manual and a qualified electrical tech to troubleshoot the issue.

AutoHex Online Help: Hyundai GENESIS(BH) 2012 Fault Code: b1602

Once again thank you for your help. I will take this info to my mechanic and see what he finds.