Suspension Issue - A new take

[Mark_888]

everyone have different taste.
On the contrary, I read many moroting journalist said, Genesis suspension is too "soft".

It's not really a question of soft vs. hard, although admittedly some have expressed it that way. The 2010 suspension is just as firm, but has much better compliance on rough roads (an jitter is gone), and posters in this forum who have driven both 2009 and 2010 have said the 2010 has better handling than the 2009 (less body roll in the corners).

From everything I have read from people who have test driven the 2010 Genesis sedan, the suspension revisions have elevated the car from very good to near perfection compared to other vehicles anywhere near its price range.

Of course, there will always be those in the minority who have problems with the car and will replace the wheels, muffler, lighting, sub-woofer, etc, but most people think the Genesis is an outstanding achievement right off the dealer lot.

 

[Sayantsi]

Fwiw, here's what I know about suspensions. Damper = shock absorber = "shock" for short. A damper does two types of damping - compression and rebound. Compression is when the car rides over a bump and the damper absorbs the shock so you don't feel it in the car, or when you're taking a sweeper turn and loading the suspension on one side, the dampers on that side will "fight back" to limit body roll.

Rebound is what happens after you hit the bump in the road. How fast does the damper get the tire back down to the ground, and how aggressively does it stop the spring from springing? This is why you see people push down on the corners of their cars when they think they have a bad shock - they're looking for failure to damp the springs, which indicates a worn/bad shock absorber. A stiff car will come up after being pushed down and not move any more, as you go softer, the car will bounce down and up at most one more time, but spring stiffness effects how much jounce you see on that one bounce.

Dampers are one part in a large system of parts tuned to effect car handling, but play a large part in "normal" ride quality. From everything I've read to date, Hyundai stiffened the car on compression and rebound for the shocks. When Hyundai says it "corners flatter" and does not continue to spring after you hit a bump, that all indicates a stiffer damper set up as the dampers have been set to more aggressively tune out body roll and to more quickly recover from bumps.

If you feel the car jounces too much after hitting a bump in the road, you want a shock that has a stiffer rebound compression. If you want a ride that better absorbs bumps in the first place, you want a softer compression rate.

All of this works in concert with springs, and who knows if Hyundai changed the springs for 2010 or just tweaked the dampers. If it was a mild adjustment to make the car more responsive and aggressive (Hyundai does market the Genesis as a sports sedan), it probably stiffened the shocks without touching the springs.

 

[Mark_888]

Fwiw, here's what I know about suspensions. Damper = shock absorber = "shock" for short. A damper does two types of damping - compression and rebound. Compression is when the car rides over a bump and the damper absorbs the shock so you don't feel it in the car, or when you're taking a sweeper turn and loading the suspension on one side, the dampers on that side will "fight back" to limit body roll.

Rebound is what happens after you hit the bump in the road. How fast does the damper get the tire back down to the ground, and how aggressively does it stop the spring from springing? This is why you see people push down on the corners of their cars when they think they have a bad shock - they're looking for failure to damp the springs, which indicates a worn/bad shock absorber. A stiff car will come up after being pushed down and not move any more, as you go softer, the car will bounce down and up at most one more time, but spring stiffness effects how much jounce you see on that one bounce.

Dampers are one part in a large system of parts tuned to effect car handling, but play a large part in "normal" ride quality. From everything I've read to date, Hyundai stiffened the car on compression and rebound for the shocks. When Hyundai says it "corners flatter" and does not continue to spring after you hit a bump, that all indicates a stiffer damper set up as the dampers have been set to more aggressively tune out body roll and to more quickly recover from bumps.

If you feel the car jounces too much after hitting a bump in the road, you want a shock that has a stiffer rebound compression. If you want a ride that better absorbs bumps in the first place, you want a softer compression rate.

All of this works in concert with springs, and who knows if Hyundai changed the springs for 2010 or just tweaked the dampers. If it was a mild adjustment to make the car more responsive and aggressive (Hyundai does market the Genesis as a sports sedan), it probably stiffened the shocks without touching the springs.

I agree with what you said about shocks.

BTW, it was not Hyundai that said the 2010 corners with less body roll, but someone on this forum who has driven both and posted that comment. They also said that the 2010 handles bad roads much better than the 2009 (and several others on this forum said the same).

As many have tried to explain, the 2009 is not necessarily too firm, it just jumps around (jittery) on bad spots on the road. This fix for this is not necessarily a "softer" suspension, but just some "changes in the in the spring and shock rates" (which is a quote from a Hyundai employee on the Hyundai Think Tank website regarding the 2010 suspension changes).

From all accounts by people who have driven both the 2009 and the 2010, the improvements are noticeable and the future of the Genesis is extremely bright. I expect to see some very good unit sales for the 2010 model year.

 

[Sayantsi]

In general, Europeans prefer a stiffer ride than Americans, and Americans prefer a stiffer ride than Asians, and the suspensions of cars from these markets reflects this. I remember an early review of KDM Genesis where the author noted the soft ride and hoped it would be firmed up for the US market. Personally, I think Hyundai did set the US-spec Genesis with a firmer suspension for 08-09, and now its firming it up more for 10 after gathering two year's of data. Its not uncommon for auto manufacturers to revise suspension settings every couple years.

We will know for sure in time if someone dynos the dampers of 09 and 10. "Butt dynos" are pretty subjective imo, but I don't doubt Hyundai is trying to get the car to ride more like a BMW - that's pretty much the standard when it comes to sport sedans.

"Less body roll" to me means stiffer springs and stiffer compression rates on the dampers, maybe revised sway bars. Someone needs to get under an 09 and a 10 and take a look, and dyno the springs and dampers to really know. I know some people complained about "waddle", which might be a too-stiff sway bar, but if the car doesn't lean on turns as much, maybe Hyundai stiffened them up as well.

 

[Mark_888]

In general, Europeans prefer a stiffer ride than Americans, and Americans prefer a stiffer ride than Asians, and the suspensions of cars from these markets reflects this. I remember an early review of KDM Genesis where the author noted the soft ride and hoped it would be firmed up for the US market. Personally, I think Hyundai did set the US-spec Genesis with a firmer suspension for 08-09, and now its firming it up more for 10 after gathering two year's of data. Its not uncommon for auto manufacturers to revise suspension settings every couple years.

We will know for sure in time if someone dynos the dampers of 09 and 10. "Butt dynos" are pretty subjective imo, but I don't doubt Hyundai is trying to get the car to ride more like a BMW - that's pretty much the standard when it comes to sport sedans.

"Less body roll" to me means stiffer springs and stiffer compression rates on the dampers, maybe revised sway bars. Someone needs to get under an 09 and a 10 and take a look, and dyno the springs and dampers to really know. I know some people complained about "waddle", which might be a too-stiff sway bar, but if the car doesn't lean on turns as much, maybe Hyundai stiffened them up as well.

We could have an endless discussion about firm vs soft, but the bottom line is that from what I have read by people who have driven both cars (2009 and 2010 models) the 2010 suspension is more forgiving on rough roads, and handling has actually improved, so I will come out and say that I think everyone will be satisfied with the 2010 suspension. None of the people who have posted about their experience driving the 2010 say it stiffer than the 2009, and in fact everyone says it handles bumps more smoothly.

Some of us with 2009 suspensions will be satisfied if we can get the 2010 suspension retrofitted on our 2009.

 

[GNINTN]

Long time reader of this forum - this is my first post. And I realize I am going straight to the deep end by posting on a suspension thread. Go gentle please!

I can't seem to find much info re the 2010 suspension from people who have actually driven the 2010 either through test drive or actual ownership. After searching this forum I can find only a couple of people who say they have driven the 2010 and the 2009. They do praise the suspension changes - there just aren't very many posts from very many people. I can recall someone in Seattle posting and someone who was to drive to Kansas to pick up their 2010. I just re-read the general sedan forum and the suspension forum and find more posts referencing people's posts than I can find actual posts from actual 2010 and 2009 drivers.

As someone who is really interested in the Genesis but is concerned about the suspension issue (or lack thereof in the 2010) I would like to hear from more who have driven the 2010 and the 2009 and get their feedback on their experiences. My local dealer has no idea when they will get a 2010 (they haven't sold a 2009 in several months) while the nearest dealer with a 2010 is more than 50 miles away.

BTW, thanks for the info on this forum. And thanks in advance to anyone who can post a response who has actually driven both the 2009 and the 2010.

 

[genesis 45]

Hi, Im in California and i have test driven the 2010........I own a 2009 4.6 and i can tell you the front end is firmer then the 2009......the back end handles bad roads and speed bumps much better.....you do not get that tossed around feeling.......much less is transmitted to the vehicle occupants.....the ride is not soft at all.....but it stays put to the ground much better over rough roads and bumps at slow speeds..............Im not sure if they just tightened up the front end more closely to match the rear end, or slightly loosened up the back end............IMO the car feels firmer, but it does not transfer the road feel from bad roads to the passengers nearly as much....iIt seems they simply got the front end suspension to work better with the back end suspension.............It is not softer then the 2009........Im not sure if our 2009 sedans have a stabalizer bar in the back end but a customer service rep told me it looked like they added a stabalizer bar to the back...I hope we find out about the changes soon, but im sure there a still plenty of 2009's to sell...........Thx to all of you for the info and education on this issue........

 

[Mark_888]

Hi, Im in California and i have test driven the 2010........I own a 2009 4.6 and i can tell you the front end is firmer then the 2009......the back end handles bad roads and speed bumps much better.....you do not get that tossed around feeling.......much less is transmitted to the vehicle occupants.....the ride is not soft at all.....but it stays put to the ground much better over rough roads and bumps at slow speeds..............Im not sure if they just tightened up the front end more closely to match the rear end, or slightly loosened up the back end............IMO the car feels firmer, but it does not transfer the road feel from bad roads to the passengers nearly as much....iIt seems they simply got the front end suspension to work better with the back end suspension.............It is not softer then the 2009........Im not sure if our 2009 sedans have a stabalizer bar in the back end but a customer service rep told me it looked like they added a stabalizer bar to the back...I hope we find out about the changes soon, but im sure there a still plenty of 2009's to sell...........Thx to all of you for the info and education on this issue........

They also improved the steering. Not sure if you noticed a difference. Some 2009 models have a tendency to drift to the left.

I think you are right about the balance between front and back. The 2009 rides much better with full load in the back, much like a station wagon or pickup truck that is optimized for a full load rather than a load of driver and one passenger. Gets a little bouncy when there is not enough weight on the 2009 rear end.

 

[Sayantsi]

As someone who is really interested in the Genesis but is concerned about the suspension issue (or lack thereof in the 2010)

Or lack thereof in an 09 - why don't you drive an 09 and find out for yourself that there is no issue?

This is exactly my issue with people claiming (over and over again, in every forum) that their car's issue is a universal one - people are turned off from even driving the car. This is the "most awarded car" of 2009, 99% of people here love their Genesis sedan, and the car is selling at and near monthly target dates despite the soft economy. Does that sound like a car with serious problems?

You really owe it to yourself to drive a car and see for yourself if you like it.

 

[Sayantsi]

Hi, Im in California and i have test driven the 2010........I own a 2009 4.6 and i can tell you the front end is firmer then the 2009......the back end handles bad roads and speed bumps much better.....you do not get that tossed around feeling.......much less is transmitted to the vehicle occupants.....the ride is not soft at all.....but it stays put to the ground much better over rough roads and bumps at slow speeds..............Im not sure if they just tightened up the front end more closely to match the rear end, or slightly loosened up the back end............IMO the car feels firmer, but it does not transfer the road feel from bad roads to the passengers nearly as much....iIt seems they simply got the front end suspension to work better with the back end suspension.............It is not softer then the 2009........Im not sure if our 2009 sedans have a stabalizer bar in the back end but a customer service rep told me it looked like they added a stabalizer bar to the back...I hope we find out about the changes soon, but im sure there a still plenty of 2009's to sell...........Thx to all of you for the info and education on this issue........

Thanks for the write up - it sounds like a firmer rebound rate on the rear, maybe a different sway bar on the rear, to kill any unsettledness over sustained bumps. Overall, a firmer ride that quells bumpiness more aggressively.

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[GNINTN]

I have test driven a 2009. I have not yet driven a 2010. I was simply asking for a response from someone who had driven both. Thanks to genesis 45, I received what I was looking for. I hope more people who have driven both model years will respond.

Thanks again genesis 45!

 

[Mark_888]

Or lack thereof in an 09 - why don't you drive an 09 and find out for yourself that there is no issue?

This is exactly my issue with people claiming (over and over again, in every forum) that their car's issue is a universal one - people are turned off from even driving the car. This is the "most awarded car" of 2009, 99% of people here love their Genesis sedan, and the car is selling at and near monthly target dates despite the soft economy. Does that sound like a car with serious problems?

You really owe it to yourself to drive a car and see for yourself if you like it.

I (obviously) have made a lot of comments about the 2009 suspension. But let me correct a few misconceptions:

1. I love my Genesis, but I think the suspension can be improved (Hyundai must agree, since they have made changes to it for 2010).

2. 99% of the other people may love their Genesis also, but polls on this forum have shown that about 1/3 think the suspension could be improved.

3. I never said the Genesis has a serious problem. I think the suspension issue on the 2009 is a moderate annoyance on rough roads, and non-existent problem on smooth roads.

4. It may be that not all 2009's have the exact same suspension issue. The suspension on my 2009 is a bit better after 10 months, probably because the springs have lost a little tension, just enough to make a difference. There could also be some minor manufacturing differences in the springs from one vehicle to another. I would not be surprised if Hyundai made a minor adjustment in the springs mid-year, but I have no evidence to back that up.

5. Regardless of what I think about the 2009 suspension, I would highly recommend that someone test drive the Genesis if they are shopping for a car anywhere in that price range. But I would also recommend that they test drive both a 2009 and 2010 if they are shopping right now. Based on my 10 month experience with the Genesis, and the suspension and steering improvements in the new model, the 2010 Genesis is undoubtedly an outstanding automobile, and an absolutely amazing value at its selling price.

 

[GripperDon]

Make your own!

 

[doug725]

"This is exactly my issue with people claiming (over and over again, in every forum) that their car's issue is a universal one - "

Who has said this? This is simply not true.

"99% of people here love their Genesis sedan."

Still doesn't negate that some people have had a problem. Unless you work for Hyundai I'm not sure why you care so much if people have a second thought about getting an '09? It's usually a bad idea to buy the first model year of anything.

Or lack thereof in an 09 - why don't you drive an 09 and find out for yourself that there is no issue?

This is exactly my issue with people claiming (over and over again, in every forum) that their car's issue is a universal one - people are turned off from even driving the car. This is the "most awarded car" of 2009, 99% of people here love their Genesis sedan, and the car is selling at and near monthly target dates despite the soft economy. Does that sound like a car with serious problems?

You really owe it to yourself to drive a car and see for yourself if you like it.

 

[GripperDon]

I (obviously) have made a lot of comments about the 2009 suspension. But let me correct a few misconceptions:

1. I love my Genesis, but I think the suspension can be improved (Hyundai must agree, since they have made changes to it for 2010).

2. 99% of the other people may love their Genesis also, but polls on this forum have shown that about 1/3 think the suspension could be improved.

3. I never said the Genesis has a serious problem. I think the suspension issue on the 2009 is a moderate annoyance on rough roads, and non-existent problem on smooth roads.

4. It may be that not all 2009's have the exact same suspension issue. The suspension on my 2009 is a bit better after 10 months, probably because the springs have lost a little tension, just enough to make a difference. There could also be some minor manufacturing differences in the springs from one vehicle to another. I would not be surprised if Hyundai made a minor adjustment in the springs mid-year, but I have no evidence to back that up.

5. Regardless of what I think about the 2009 suspension, I would highly recommend that someone test drive the Genesis if they are shopping for a car anywhere in that price range. But I would also recommend that they test drive both a 2009 and 2010 if they are shopping right now. Based on my 10 month experience with the Genesis, and the suspension and steering improvements in the new model, the 2010 Genesis is undoubtedly an outstanding automobile, and an absolutely amazing value at its selling price.

Mark have you had any luck yet with the revising your 09 suspension to have any part of the 10 suspenion?

 

[Mark_888]

Mark have you had any luck yet with the revising your 09 suspension to have any part of the 10 suspenion?

From what people have told me, no one at HMA or Hyundai dealers wants to discuss the part numbers until all 2009 models have been sold. Even then, it may be awhile before one can get the parts. It may be necessary to get the parts (springs and shocks) from a company like Korean Auto Imports and have an independent shop do it. I think HMA is afraid of some legal issues and they don't want anything to do with changing the 2009 suspension.

 

[GripperDon]

My opinion is that I think you may be right right, a complete state of customer satisfaction denial and just hoping that any really unhappy owners that have the problem will disappear. I wonder if they have put out the word to the dealerships also. I get a complete lack of even a response from any parts department I have sent inquiries to, not even an acknowledgment of a reply. That comment I thought someone posted, maybe you, that quoted a Hyundai Customer satisfaction agent as saying something to the effect aid that Hyundai would in no way make any information available to a customer or parts department regarding this issue may have bee dead on.

Well they may well get their wish of having an owner that get unhappy go away. Their responses to the guys with the Bluetooth problems of not going to change the software to handle their problems is showing a mindset of, our support is "send em a plate frame"

The guys that have dumped Genesis, at least the ones I have emailed with, make it very clear they would never buy Hyundai again. Very short sighted, They making a change for "Customer satisfaction" on a case by case basis at their dealership would have no legal downside, but just one accident where someone claimed that it was related to "Loss of road control" due to reduction in road contact due to wheel hop from the suspension, could cost them many times what the small number of "alterations for customer satisfaction" with standard parts would and if it hit the press, wow. Seems like cooler heads need to prevail.

Just hought I would ask what your thoughts were, not interested in getting any posting traffice started. So thanks for the reply.

 

[Sayantsi]

I've been wondering, did either of you swap the existing 09 suspensions on your cars with other 09 parts to see if there is any improvement?

 

[LLT]

I've been wondering, did either of you swap the existing 09 suspensions on your cars with other 09 parts to see if there is any improvement?

I did. I personally rebuilt the entire front suspension -- bushings, upper/lower control arms, springs and struts. The difference was negligible.

 

[jwaters943]

How's your Lexus?