Please explain Rear Wheel Drive

[Rich GV70]

I proudly showed my 4.6 to a friend here near NYC who has an Avalon nearing lease-end. His wife has an Azera and think highly of Hyundai. It went well until I said Rear Wheel Drive. Instant turn off. Since I just ordered $1,600 worth of winter tires after getting hung up in 6" of snow (with AWD and FWD on recent cars, I haven't bought snows in years) I was not going to be too persuasive.
So what's so great about FWD?

 

[scottdk]

I proudly showed my 4.6 to a friend here near NYC who has an Avalon nearing lease-end. His wife has an Azera and think highly of Hyundai. It went well until I said Rear Wheel Drive. Instant turn off. Since I just ordered $1,600 worth of winter tires after getting hung up in 6" of snow (with AWD and FWD on recent cars, I haven't bought snows in years) I was not going to be too persuasive.
So what's so great about FWD?

Hmmmm....TJ, you want to chime in here??

 

[sandy]

FWD = more traction due to more weight (from motor) over drive wheels.

 

[Dimitry]

You can always throw some bags of salt in your trunk to put some weight balanced on the rear wheels - that's what I'll do when we get a lot of snow here.

 

[MattG]

This is an issue that can often stir almost religious level debates, but that said. . .

FWD has power limitations (at high power all sorts of interesting issues manifest), and the weight distribution of FWD cars may tend to be a little front heavy. FWD is arguably a little more idiot proof in inclement weather.

RWD tends to have a better weight distribution, and it is much easier to push the power in RWD cars, because the drive wheels don't have to turn, which is probably why RWD has been favored by people seeking lots of power at the wheels.

AWD can theoretically give someone the best of all worlds, but there is a weight penalty to be paid for it, not to mention AWD systems are pretty expensive.

IMHO front engine, rear drive, is one of the most fun/rewarding configurations for someone who wants to actually head out and drive.

Obviously a lot of power in a RWD car does pose some potential issues in snowy and icy conditions, but it is all about the tradeoffs. Snow tires and a little weight in the trunk is a small price to pay for all of that power waiting on the driver's beck and call the rest of the year.

YMMV

 

[TJPark01]

Hmmmm....TJ, you want to chime in here??

Scotty,you guys getting pummeled w snow today in MN? Rich, your friend doesn't know a whole lot about cars, and that's ok really. MattG summarized it pretty well.
What's so great about FWD you ask, is pretty much due to their nose heavy weight distribution they will have better traction from a dead stop in snow and icy conditions relative to a car that is the same size,weight and w same tires of a car with RWD. But that is pretty much where the advantages end. FWD, can't brake, turn or out manuver a car with RWD.
I could go on for days, but the bottom line is FWD was created for the purposes of economy and cost reduction. RWD is the best set up for everyday use. That is why the purest old guard performance German brands BMW,Mercedes and Porsche all default setup is always RWD. (don't be chimming in on Mini's and Smart cars, they don't count!)

 

[wallymn]

Just waiting for the front drive rear engine configuration. That should be a lot of fun.

FWD disadvantage= The drive wheels are the steering wheels. So when traction is lost, you lose drive and steering. Usually results in understeer.

FWD - Advantage - Massive weight (engine) over the drive wheels, this allows the tires to "plow" thru snow better. This is a marginal gain which is removed with correct winter tires.

RWD - Disadvantage - The drive wheels are "light" or unloaded, which results in a tendency to lose traction. This results in wheel spin in snow etc. Simple fix, 50 Lbs of salt in the trunk

Rwd - advantage - The drive wheels are dedicated , the steering wheels are dedicated. Massive power can be deployed. At the limit the platform "breaks" in a more controlled way, (understeer and oversteer are possible).
Can Provide the best steering "feel"

AWD - Disadvantage - weight. To provide drive to all wheels adds 250-400 lbs of weight. cost - upfront and long term.

AWD - advantage - Least likely platform to lose traction. Can deliver the most power to the ground.

If you care about driving dynamics, corner entry speeds, 1/4 mile times, you are likely looking at a RWD platform.

If you have more money that then Gov't , and care about the above you want a AWD performance car

If you just care about getting there, and a bus just isn't available , FWD is the way to go.

 

[TJPark01]

If you care about driving dynamics, corner entry speeds, 1/4 mile times, you are likely looking at a RWD platform.
If you have more money that then Gov't , and care about the above you want a AWD performance car
If you just care about getting there, and a bus just isn't available , FWD is the way to go.

You pretty much summed it up in layman's terms. Apparently, most people don't care. Accord,Camry,Taurus,Malibu,Sonata,Altima, just to name a few, will suit you just fine.

 

[GripperDon]

FWD - Disadvantage, Torque Steer, It's never beeen completely overcome and accels will get you everytime in a performance situation.

 

[Sayantsi]

Back in the 70s when fwd became really popular, everything was rwd and in the winter, traction suffered due to poor tires and no traction control technology. FWD was a good (and inexpensive) alternative as it put more weight over the front wheels for better traction, and it "pulls" the car so it can help keep it in line, while rwd "pushes" the car, and the back can push around the front, or cause the car to spin. Thank God things have progressed, but like 3,000 mile oil change intervals, some people continue to believe in the way things used to be.

The magic of rwd is how it feels to drive, how it helps a car rotate around corners, how it best makes optimal use of all four tires - the front two handle turning traction, the rear two handle acceleration traction. It also typically has better weight distribution across the car and works best as weight shifts around the car. With fwd, most of the weight is concentrated in the front of the car, which helps in the snow, but for the rest of the time you end up with a nose-heavy car that doesn't turn or accelerate well. When you accelerate hard, the weight transfers rearward, so there's no weight over the drive wheels, so they are less effective. This also contributes to the aforementioned torque steer, since the wheels are light and grab the pavement unevenly, a fwd car's steering wheel will pull back and forth on hard accel, so you always have to fight the car as you drive it. As well, since the front tires have to both accelerate and turn the car, there's less overall traction for driving.

The best thing you can do regardless of drive wheels is get winter tires - proper traction and grip is what's needed more than anything. Tires are much more advanced then they used to be, which is why you see rwd cars on snow tires out in the snow while awd SUVs with all seasons are in ditches. Add the advanced traction and stability controls on modern cars, and you really don't have to worry about the car spinning due to power, just poor traction.

I don't know why your friend is so anti-rwd, maybe he's never tried it, maybe he's had a bad experience with it, I don't know. I do know I'd rather buy $1,600 worth of winter tires every 3-4 years for a great rwd car than a $34,000 fwd car and be stuck driving it all year long.

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[Rich GV70]

Thank you all. There's a lot of information here. I feel a lot better about the RWD and I'm glad I got the winter tires. Thanks for all your time in these detailed comments.

 

[TJPark01]

Thank you all. There's a lot of information here. I feel a lot better about the RWD and I'm glad I got the winter tires. Thanks for all your time in these detailed comments.

When I lived in Colorado, the state dept of transportation did a study on which types of cars get into accidents during snow days. Oddly enough it was found that it was SUV's. The theory was that the extra traction from a dead stop of AWD & 4WD gave drivers a false sense of security. Apparently people forgot that 4WD doesn't help your car brake, the tires do that.
You'll be glad to read this article about winter driving in Car & Driver...
2009 Winter Tire Test - Comparison Tests

 

[sandy]

When I lived in Colorado, the state dept of transportation did a study on which types of cars get into accidents during snow days. Oddly enough it was found that it was SUV's. The theory was that the extra traction from a dead stop of AWD & 4WD gave drivers a false sense of security. Apparently people forgot that 4WD doesn't help your car brake, the tires do that.
You'll be glad to read this article about winter driving in Car & Driver...
2009 Winter Tire Test - Comparison Tests

Makes sense. Additionally, the false sense of security probably has suv drivers more likely to be out in the snow in the first place.

 

[TJPark01]

Makes sense. Additionally, the false sense of security probably has suv drivers more likely to be out in the snow in the first place.

I think the study was skewed even further because Colorado probably has a disproportionate amount of SUV owners due to the very nature of the state. I think the value of the study was to highlight that just because you drive an AWD or 4X4, don't think you can drive faster.

 

[Sayantsi]

SUVs weigh more, have a higher center of gravity, do not handle as well as cars, are inherently less stable, and drivers of them have a false sense of security as they think the vehicles are better built for incliment weather.

It all comes down to the tires and their small interaction with the road - four tiny patches of rubber that control 3-6k pounds of metal and plastic hurtling down the road.

 

[rachmass]

I live in Michigan with heavy winter snows the norm. Have been driving RWD cars (Bimmer's) for many years and find they are just as good as FWD if a) you don't brake suddenly and b) you don't accelerate like a maniac. I have both a manual and an automatic and frankly the automatic is a bit easier in the snow, probably because of some torque at the shift on the stick (my fault no doubt). I have been test driving for a new car for a while now and I find the FWD cars are harder to handle if you step on the gas as they want to pull at the front. Much prefer the RWD, even with this crazy weather. We have a bunch of old tile in the back of the manual shift (light car - automatic is a convertible and much heavier). You need snow tires for the winter. Just bought some good Dunlops for just of $400 so don't know why you had to drop $1,600? I replace every other year but put about 20K miles each year.

 

[TJPark01]

SUVs weigh more, have a higher center of gravity, do not handle as well as cars, are inherently less stable, and drivers of them have a false sense of security as they think the vehicles are better built for incliment weather.

It all comes down to the tires and their small interaction with the road - four tiny patches of rubber that control 3-6k pounds of metal and plastic hurtling down the road.

The SUV's are better for traversing the Serengeti. Time most people spend off-road, <1%. Traversing the Garden State Parkway on the way to Costco, then Red Lobster, RWD.

 

[dataguy]

The SUV's are better for traversing the Serengeti. Time most people spend off-road, <1%. Traversing the Garden State Parkway on the way to Costco, then Red Lobster, RWD.

I love it when I see Land Rovers in LA with snorkels and lamp guards.

 

[TJPark01]

I love it when I see Land Rovers in LA with snorkels and lamp guards.

Seemed like a good idea at the time. Then when gas went to 5 dollars a gallon, you couldn't give those away.

 

[dataguy]

Seemed like a good idea at the time. Then when gas went to 5 dollars a gallon, you couldn't give those away.

True, but the usefulness of a bush package is pretty questionable, except in the off-chance that your SUV gets swallowed by a sinkhole.