GENESIS ANNOUNCES ALL-NEW 2021 GENESIS G80 PRICING; STARTS AT COMPETITIVE $47,700

[TurtleBoy]

Your talking about Hyundai/Genesis dealerships...debate isn’t centred around some legal definition of the word dealer. It’s centered around the fact that the buying experience and availability for the G70, and how that compares to established luxury brands. Genesis as a brand doesn’t have nearly the footprint that Lexus, BMW, and Benz have.

If you want to change your argument to that position fine, but if you are talking about the number of dealers (or amount of dealers as you put it) as you originally were then your statement was incorrect. Why do you and others find it so hard to admit making a mistake? I just don't understand it. Are people's egos that fragile that they can't handle it. We all make mistakes when posting/speaking, it is nothing to get worked up about and try and tap dance around.

 

[Backslack]

If you want to change your argument to that position fine, but if you are talking about the number of dealers (or amount of dealers as you put it) as you originally were then your statement was incorrect.

No, those were words you put in his mouth:

If you are talking number of dealers that is not correct.

Here's what he actually said:

Where are you getting this information from?
Genesis is looking to set up 120 stand alone dealerships by 2024.

You clearly have difficulties keeping up with arguments, or deliberately twist arguments so you have a favorable position to argue- you know exactly what he is referring to, as is anyone else talking about the Genesis "dealerships".

You seem pretty overworked to not notice such simple details. Clearly, BMW isn't paying you enough.

 

[TurtleBoy]

No, those were words you put in his mouth:

Here's what he actually said:


You clearly have difficulties keeping up with arguments, or deliberately twist arguments so you have a favorable position to argue- you know exactly what he is referring to, as is anyone else talking about the Genesis "dealerships".

You seem pretty overworked to not notice such simple details. Clearly, BMW isn't paying you enough.

The poster child for being wrong and never admitting it chimes in, what a surprise that he is wrong once again. You really need to go play in another sandbox since you obviously can't deal with the adult discussions here.

Lets see his actual quote that I originally replied to:

Huh?? Based on what? Do a comparison between the amount of Lexus dealers and Genesis dealers in the US right now. By no means is it even close to what lexus's dealer network is at. For a brand new car to even come close to an established brand like the IS is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

The trend for the G70 is on an upward trajectory while the IS is decreasing.

 

[Backslack]

The poster child for being wrong and never admitting it chimes in, what a surprise that he is wrong once again.

Lets see his actual quote that I originally replied to:

Sorry, are you just playing dumb on purpose? He explicitly clarified his response as talking about standalone dealerships, yet you continue to refer to it as number of dealers. If you understand basic logic, the "number of dealerships" he was referring to are "number of standalone dealerships". And he's absolutely right- Genesis has very few standalone dealerships.

You really need to go play in another sandbox since you obviously can't deal with the adult discussions here.

You mean like Bimmerpost? Gee, why don't you go link this thread too on that board like your buddies did with our GV80 thread to laugh at it.

What an absolute joke. But seriously, how much is BMW paying you?

 

[TurtleBoy]

^ You can keeping posting and reposting all of the nonsense you want but you aren't going to get the response you are hoping for. Sorry buddy, try it on someone else.

For those of us on here interested in actually having a discussion concerning the dealerships we have to keep in mind that we can not ignore how the current dealers are setup when discussing the number of dealers and how vehicles are purchased. I think the last we heard there were two dealers in the country with a separate building for their Genesis sales, there may be a few more now. It is not logical to try and argue that Genesis only has two dealers in the country when there are over 350 more dealers where folks can buy a Genesis. Customer experience and atmosphere may not nearly be what the competitors are but all of those are official dealers. How many of them meet our personal expectations of a luxury dealer is immaterial when talking about the number of dealers.

 

[Hueydriver]

How in the hell did we get so much off topic? Why don’t you two guys either call It off or email privately and settle it!

 

[MyCorvette]

On 2021 models...really? Again compare apples to apples, comparing a two year old model that’s been sitting on a lot vs a brand new car that’s still in pre-order phase is absolute nonsense.

There is little change within the same generation. For example 2017 G90 is virtually identical to 2019 G90. Same holds for G80 too. For me, what I actually get is the most important, the four digit number in front of the car model name does not bother me at all.

 

[Trixie86]

Well the restroom at my dealership says Hyundai on the door. So I'll go with that!

 

[Backslack]

How in the hell did we get so much off topic? Why don’t you two guys either call It off or email privately and settle it!

Every time there's a new Genesis product, the conversation always shifts to the brand, the dealerships, and the price instead of the car itself. I'm getting tired of it too, but until we get the G80/GV80 here with full specs listed to compare side-by-side with the competition, and we ourselves get to see them in person at the dealers (whatever roof they're under), there's unfortunately not much we can talk about other than the same tired old topics.

 

[YEH]

Talking about interior dimension, all measurements for G70 are better than the 3 series except rear headroom (0.7 inch less) and rear leg room (0.4 inch less). For rear headroom I do not think 36.9 inch for G70 will be a problem - the Dodge Charger has even worse rear headroom (36.6 in) but it is the best seller in its class. Next, although 34.8 rear legroom its less than the 3 series, it is still the same as the 2020 Toyota Corolla, I do not think most compact sport sedan buyer will complain this.

2020 G70 vs. 2020 BMW 3-Series

Front Head Room (inches)
39.7 vs. 38.7
Front Leg Room (inches)
42.6 vs. 42
Front Shoulder Room (inches)
56.3 vs. 56
Second Row Head Room (inches)
36.9 vs. 37.6
Second Row Leg Room (inches)
34.8 vs. 35.2
Second Row Shoulder Room (inches)
54.6 vs. 54.6

Being associated w/ the music industry, you should know that measurements can be misleading.

Pretty much every review of the G70 has mentioned the cramped rear space (which was the case for reviews of the ATS), not to mention testimonials by prospective buyers (including here).

Both also had limited trunk space compared to the competition as they prioritized handling, in which how they set up the suspension at the rear ate into the trunk space.

Otoh, reviews of the 3er have stated that the BMW compact sedan has enough room at the rear to accommodate most adults.

Genesis acknowledges its an issue which is why they are trying to create a bit more space for knee room w/ carve-outs for the front seat backs.

But the larger issue is limited footwell space - there isn't room underneath the front seats for feet to slide under.

The IS wasn't exactly known for its 2nd row room either, but people who own/have owned the IS stated that the G70 is tighter at the rear.

Furthermore, can't fit a reverse-facing infant/child seat which is major no-no for a couple w/ an infant or those who are expecting a child in the near-future.

As I have stated before, expect the next gen G70 to increase its passenger space.

Where did I say otherwise? But if you think that's acceptable enough for a dealership, go tell your local BMW dealer to cut their entire lineup down to two cars on their lot.

There are Cadillac dealerships (attached to either a Chevy or GMC dealership) in the more rural areas where their supply on hand is pretty limited (since sales volume is low) and pretty much mostly the Escalade.

My local dealer...owner also had Maserati and Alfa Romeo in one building. He got rid of both. He is slowly turning it into a true stand alone Genesis dealer. When done...he’ll separate and move his Genesis there and keep Hyundai as is.

Can’t wait!

Think there are 2 stand-alone Genesis dealerships who have already made such a move into pre-existing facilities, so this should be the 3rd.

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[Prospective G80 Owner]

Already mentioned above, there are always excuses when things did not work out as planned. But ultimately we are looking at the end results, if it does not sell well then this is the fact.

I would not blame the dealership issue to be the sole factor - I even do not think it is one of the top reasons. Obviously if one really like the car, dealership is not the deal breaker. Like almost all forum members here who have already purchased a Genesis, we all know Genesis dealership experience is far away from other brands but we still buy their cars.

Yeah, but we may not keep buying their cars. I sold my 2014 Jaguar XJL Portfolio in October 2018 and switched to a 2019 3.3T Sport, which I've been generally quite pleased with since. In fact, I wanted this particular car so much that I flew from Miami to D.C. to get it and then drove it 1,100 miles back home. However, I've been so dismayed and disgusted with the local Hyundai - - excuse me - - Genesis dealers here in Miami over the past year-and-a-half that I'm seriously contemplating dumping the vehicle right now and going back to Jaguar. Among other issues, the concierge service has been nonexistent and I hate having to take the car in every six months. If the Genesis dealership experience was anything close to what I've experienced with Jaguar, Maserati, or MB, then I'd definitely be keeping my car until the new 2021s are available and then move to that because I think it looks incredible. As it is, I've started looking at the 2019 XJ Collection special edition vehicles that Jaguar released last year. They were the final 300 units manufactured before the plant shut down in preparation for switching to the new generation all-electric XJ that will be released for the 2021 model year. (There isn't going to be a 2020 model year.) Those 2019 special edition vehicles come with a 470hp V-8, and were released with a specially marked-down MSRP of $85k (a discount of $12k from comparably optioned XJLs). And given how Jags depreciate in general, plus the fact that those 2019 model years are already considered to be a year old, dealers are discounting the remaining units by as much as $25k-$30k. So in effect, you're getting a brand new $100k flagship vehicle for as little as $57k. That's difficult to pass up.

You guys keep comparing Genesis to German cars, screw German cars, they're designed to last the duration of a typical lease term, then they start going wrong left and right, and they cost a fortune to repair, and you can't even change the oil on those cars, have to go to the dealer just to replace a battery...
On the other hand, Korean cars are designed for the long haul, because they all have 10/100,000 powertrain warranty, even the basic warranty is above all other manufacturers at 5y/60,000 miles, and their tech is great and intuitive, can you say the same about German cars, or Lexus...
My only choice is Korean cars, I'm done with every other brands.

It's not above all manufacturers. That's the same basic warranty that Jaguar has. Moreover, Jaguar's CPO program covers vehicles for up to 7 years and 100,000 miles from the car's original in service date. In effect, The CPO warranty extends the original warranty by 2 years and 40,000 miles, which is something Genesis can't touch at this time. As you may know, the Genesis CPO coverage is a maximum of 6 years or 75,000 miles.

 

[MyCorvette]

Being associated w/ the music industry, you should know that measurements can be misleading.

Pretty much every review of the G70 has mentioned the cramped rear space (which was the case for reviews of the ATS), not to mention testimonials by prospective buyers (including here).

Both also had limited trunk space compared to the competition as they prioritized handling, in which how they set up the suspension at the rear ate into the trunk space.

Otoh, reviews of the 3er have stated that the BMW compact sedan has enough room at the rear to accommodate most adults.

Genesis acknowledges its an issue which is why they are trying to create a bit more space for knee room w/ carve-outs for the front seat backs.

But the larger issue is limited footwell space - there isn't room underneath the front seats for feet to slide under.

The IS wasn't exactly known for its 2nd row room either, but people who own/have owned the IS stated that the G70 is tighter at the rear.

Furthermore, can't fit a reverse-facing infant/child seat which is major no-no for a couple w/ an infant or those who are expecting a child in the near-future.

As I have stated before, expect the next gen G70 to increase its passenger space.





There are Cadillac dealerships (attached to either a Chevy or GMC dealership) in the more rural areas where their supply on hand is pretty limited (since sales volume is low) and pretty much mostly the Escalade.




Think there are 2 stand-alone Genesis dealerships who have already made such a move into pre-existing facilities, so this should be the 3rd.

Numbers will not lie, man. This has been the industry standard for many years, if it is so inaccurate and contradicting with consumer's feelings, why the whole industry keep using it?

Even the music industry is not purely subjective - why does someone's violin sound much better than mine? Put it under the spectrum analyzer and look at the harmonics.

If you can feel it, there definitely will be a scientific way to quantitatively measure it.

 

[TurtleBoy]

Numbers will not lie, man. This has been the industry standard for many years, if it is so inaccurate and contradicting with consumer's feelings, why the whole industry keep using it?

Numbers don't lie if they are obtained using the same standard. Unfortunately you don't know how the manufacture came up with the measurements. Things could have changed but there were two measurement standards, maximum legroom and effective legroom, that were voluntary and manufactures weren't mandated to use either.

That aside, the numbers you posted showed the G70 had less rear leg room than the 3 series as well as less rear headroom just as @YEH has alluded to.

 

[YEH]

^ This.

Numbers will not lie, man. This has been the industry standard for many years, if it is so inaccurate and contradicting with consumer's feelings, why the whole industry keep using it?

Even the music industry is not purely subjective - why does someone's violin sound much better than mine? Put it under the spectrum analyzer and look at the harmonics.

If you can feel it, there definitely will be a scientific way to quantitatively measure it.

There is no uniform way that automakers do the measurements, and things like the positioning of the accelerator and brake pedal, how the automaker packaged the space bywn the WB, thickness of the front seats, etc. can all have an impact on actual/real world space/legroom/footroom.

(Also, speakers w/ similar frequency measurements can sound diff.)


From the C/D comparison.

The Genesis is about an inch wider than the BMW, which gives its interior a bit more elbow room, while the M340i is about an inch longer. The BMW’s 112.2-inch wheelbase also is longer, but only by about half an inch. That additional wheelbase and clever packaging gives the German considerably more rear seat space than the Korean. Rear leg and headroom are tight in the Genesis, and if you’re more than six feet tall, your head will rub against its headliner. At 17 cubic feet, the BMW's trunk also is considerably larger than the G70's 11-cubic-foot hold.

2020 BMW 3-series vs. 2020 Genesis G70: Which Is the Better Compact Luxury Sports Sedan?

Teasing out performance, refinement, and value with six-cylinder versions of BMW's stalwart sports sedan and the upstart Genesis G70.

www.caranddriver.com

Autotrader Canada comparison w/ the 3 Series

It’s Tiny Inside

Sure, the G70 is a small sedan, but so too are its German rivals. Yet all three manage to feel far larger than the Genesis does inside – especially in the back seats. The G70’s cabin feels claustrophobic in almost every way imaginable, with limited leg, shoulder, and headroom that make it surprisingly unwelcoming to even those of average height.

The trunk, too, registers as far smaller than those of the 3 Series or C-Class, with about 50 per cent less room inside. Where the BMW and Mercedes offer 479 L and 455 L, respectively, the smallest Genesis model provides just 297 L.

3 Ways the Genesis G70 is Better Than a BMW 3 Series, and 3 Ways It’s Not

Value reigns supreme, but it comes with compromise.

www.autotrader.ca

Caradvice Australia

Interestingly, though, it’s not the Korean but the German that reveals itself as having the roomiest cabin space, at least by measure of four adults filling both rows of accommodation. It’s easy to spot in profile that the BMW has the longer cabin and shorter extremities and overhang at either end than the G70.

For row-two comfort, the deeply set Bimmer rules the roost and has the most comprehensive fit-out with proper third-zone climate control for rear passengers, as well as dual powered USB ports and a single 12V.

The G70 has more limited head, toe and knee room...

We’ve reported that the Genesis's boot, at 330L, doesn’t have anything like the 480L volume of many segment rivals, including the IS and 3 Series breeds.

2019 Genesis G70 3.3T Sport v BMW 330i M Sport v Lexus IS350 F Sport comparison | CarAdvice

The Korean Genesis G70 has finally arrived to take on the best from Germany, the BMW 330i, and the finest from Japan, the Lexus IS350.

www.caradvice.com.au

So 3 reviews comparing the G70 and 3er from 3 diff. countries (the US, Canada and Australia) and all 3 remark on how the 3er has more interior room, esp. at the rear, as well as trunk space.

 

[MyCorvette]

^ This.




There is no uniform way that automakers do the measurements, and things like the positioning of the accelerator and brake pedal, how the automaker packaged the space bywn the WB, thickness of the front seats, etc. can all have an impact on actual/real world space/legroom/footroom.

(Also, speakers w/ similar frequency measurements can sound diff.)


From the C/D comparison.

http://[URL][URL]https://www.carand...561099/2020-bmw-3-series-vs-2020-genesis-g70/

[/URL][/URL]

Autotrader Canada comparison w/ the 3 Series

http://[URL][URL]https://www.autotr...tter-than-a-bmw-3-series-and-3-ways-it-s-not/

[/URL][/URL]


Caradvice Australia

http://[URL][URL]https://www.caradv...30i-m-sport-v-lexus-is350-f-sport-comparison/

[/URL][/URL]


So 3 reviews comparing the G70 and 3er from 3 diff. countries (the US, Canada and Australia) and all 3 remark on how the 3er has more interior room, esp. at the rear, as well as trunk space.

There are widely accepted measurement standards in the automobile industry, they have very detailed and strict definitions, all possible factors are taken into considerations, absolute fairness is guaranteed. I will be very surprised if Hyundai/Kia/Genesis is not using the SAE J1100 and J182 standards when they are conducting CAD and describing their products' dimensions.

Cars are engineering products, this is serious science. It is not something as easy or obvious as simply reading several articles written by people who are not automobile engineers - it is OK if you treat those are leisure entertainments, but they are definitely not science and you cannot simply state that is a fact while cold hard numbers do not match at all.

For example, 1000 years ago almost all books said the earth is flat - do you think earth is flat? Do you agree or disagree? Why?

Not to be confused: I am not saying you cannot feel the G70 interior is cramped. You can feel whatever you like and freely express what you feel, or selectively citing clues which fits your feeling. But that is not fact. Instead, scientific measurement is the fact.

 

[MyCorvette]

Numbers don't lie if they are obtained using the same standard. Unfortunately you don't know how the manufacture came up with the measurements. Things could have changed but there were two measurement standards, maximum legroom and effective legroom, that were voluntary and manufactures weren't mandated to use either.

That aside, the numbers you posted showed the G70 had less rear leg room than the 3 series as well as less rear headroom just as @YEH has alluded to.

Why? SAE J1100 and J182 are the standard that the auto industry is using for this topic. Every year during the LA auto show media days, I consistently asked design/engineering representatives from all participating auto makers whether they have made any changes to not using any SAE standards (which means, they make up their own standards) in their products, especially for technical numbers which are published to the public. So far no one say no. Are you saying some of them are lying to me?

To be more specific, automotive interior measurement related standards are:

SAE J826 H-point (ISO 6549)
SAE J1100 seating reference point, H-point travel path
SAE J1517 driver selected seat position
SAE J941 eyellipse (ISO 4513/BS AU 176)
SAE J1052 driver and passenger head position contours
SAE J287 hand control reach envelops (ISO 4040/BS AU 199)

Most of those standards form part of the legislation, and they are usually the only standards that meet US regulations (for example FMVSS standards). Since Genesis is running business in US, I cannot think of any reason they want to break the law by not using these standards.

 

[DarinG90]

I've lost track of this thread.., are we now debating whether the G70 has cramped back seats? Does a bear shit in the woods?

 

[Ernie3647]

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[TurtleBoy]

Why? SAE J1100 and J182 are the standard that the auto industry is using for this topic. Every year during the LA auto show media days, I consistently asked design/engineering representatives from all participating auto makers whether they have made any changes to not using any SAE standards (which means, they make up their own standards) in their products, especially for technical numbers which are published to the public. So far no one say no. Are you saying some of them are lying to me?

To be more specific, automotive interior measurement related standards are:

SAE J826 H-point (ISO 6549)
SAE J1100 seating reference point, H-point travel path
SAE J1517 driver selected seat position
SAE J941 eyellipse (ISO 4513/BS AU 176)
SAE J1052 driver and passenger head position contours
SAE J287 hand control reach envelops (ISO 4040/BS AU 199)

Most of those standards form part of the legislation, and they are usually the only standards that meet US regulations (for example FMVSS standards). Since Genesis is running business in US, I cannot think of any reason they want to break the law by not using these standards.

That must been a fairly recent change because as of a few years ago, no standards were mandated by legislation. All were voluntary and the specific ones were L33 and L34.

Edit: Never mind, I see what you missed/ignored. You listed the definitions of the positions but not that there are two ways of measuring like I mentioned above. Look further down in the standards to how the measurements are taken and you will see there are two ways.

6.1.22 L33-MAXIMUM LEG ROOM-ACCELERATOR—The dimension measured along a line from the Ankle Pivot Center to the Rearmost Design H-Point (see 14.1) plus 254 mm (10 in) measured with the right foot on the Undepressed Accelerator Pedal defined from the SgRP location. The Rearmost Highest or Rearmost Lowest Design H-Point location, or any point in between, may be used if a larger value is obtained. This assumes that the seat is not rotated and design Cushion Angle is maintained. For vehicles with SgRP to heel (H30) greater than 405 mm, the accelerator pedal may be depressed as specified by the manufacturer. If the accelerator is depressed, the manufacturer shall place foot flat on pedal and note the depression of the pedal.

6.1.23 #L34-EFFECTIVE SGRP LEG ROOM-ACCELERATOR—The dimension measured along a line from the Ankle Pivot Center to the SgRP-front plus 254 mm (10 in) measured with right foot on the Undepressed Accelerator Pedal. For vehicles with SgRP to heel (H30) greater than 405 mm, the accelerator pedal may be depressed as specified by the manufacturer. If the accelerator is depressed, the manufacturer shall place foot flat on pedal and note the depression of the pedal.

Motor Vehicle Dimensions

 

[MyCorvette]

That must been a fairly recent change because as of a few years ago, no standards were mandated by legislation. All were voluntary and the specific ones were L33 and L34.

Edit: Never mind, I see what you missed/ignored. You listed the definitions of the positions but not that there are two ways of measuring like I mentioned above. Look further down in the standards to how the measurements are taken and you will see there are two ways.

6.1.22 L33-MAXIMUM LEG ROOM-ACCELERATOR—The dimension measured along a line from the Ankle Pivot Center to the Rearmost Design H-Point (see 14.1) plus 254 mm (10 in) measured with the right foot on the Undepressed Accelerator Pedal defined from the SgRP location. The Rearmost Highest or Rearmost Lowest Design H-Point location, or any point in between, may be used if a larger value is obtained. This assumes that the seat is not rotated and design Cushion Angle is maintained. For vehicles with SgRP to heel (H30) greater than 405 mm, the accelerator pedal may be depressed as specified by the manufacturer. If the accelerator is depressed, the manufacturer shall place foot flat on pedal and note the depression of the pedal.

6.1.23 #L34-EFFECTIVE SGRP LEG ROOM-ACCELERATOR—The dimension measured along a line from the Ankle Pivot Center to the SgRP-front plus 254 mm (10 in) measured with right foot on the Undepressed Accelerator Pedal. For vehicles with SgRP to heel (H30) greater than 405 mm, the accelerator pedal may be depressed as specified by the manufacturer. If the accelerator is depressed, the manufacturer shall place foot flat on pedal and note the depression of the pedal.

Motor Vehicle Dimensions

We are discussing about rear seat dimensions, not the front seats. More specifically, look at definition #L51 (sec. 6.2.29)