Genesis's giving up on V8 development

[Tommym]

EPA not the f
EPA not a very friendly area.

Tough neighborhood to grow up in. They need a course in self defense at the elementary school. Kind of prepared me for the Army later in life.

 

[Steve2020]

I totally agree. Having a V8 under the hood changes the whole dynamic of the car. Call me old school but nothing beats a V8 for power and smooth acceleration.

And sound, other than Yamaha's VMax engine no engine in the world can come close to the sound of a good ole v8.

 

[Tommym]

I like the throaty roar of a EFI Ford 5.0.

 

[Steve2020]

I like the throaty roar of a EFI Ford 5.0.

Yep, they definitely got that right. A couple of guys had fox bodies when I was in school and they sound so unique you would always know when they were coming in the parking lot even if you didn't see them.

 

[Steve2020]

As far as giving up on developement they could always just go the way of the Germans if they needed to. Smaller displacement forced induction v8 would make everybody happy.

 

[Tommym]

Yep, they definitely got that right. A couple of guys had fox bodies when I was in school and they sound so unique you would always know when they were coming in the parking lot even if you didn't see them.

I replaced the 2.3 Turbo in my 87 Turbo Coupe with a very healthy 5.0. Even with 75lbs of DynaMat you can almost hold a conversation with the windows up going down the freeway. Headers, 2 1/2in pipe, Flowmaster 40's. Wife says she can hear me coming home a block away. Sure is fun to drive.

 

[Tommym]

As far as giving up on developement they could always just go the way of the Germans if they needed to. Smaller displacement forced induction v8 would make everybody happy.

I live in Henderson,NV and the problems with turbo engines is HEAT! Get trapped in traffic when it's 110* and watch your temp gauge. I love the 5.0 in my 2019 G80 Ultimate. Pretty quick for a 4700lb car.

 

[Steve2020]

I live in Henderson,NV and the problems with turbo engines is HEAT! Get trapped in traffic when it's 110* and watch your temp gauge. I love the 5.0 in my 2019 G80 Ultimate. Pretty quick for a 4700lb car.

I admit I've never lived anywhere temps get quite that high but surely automotive engineers can design turbo engines that stay at an acceptable temp. I built a carbed 451" 650 hp 11.8:1 comp ratio big block stroker engine with a high lift long duration solid lift cam and kept it under 200° in stop and go traffic while at a very humid 100°. I've seen several home built turbo v8 cars daily driven, they didn't have anything else to drive. I'm not trying to start an arguement but air temp is not an excuse today's auto manufacturers should be trying to use.

 

[Tommym]

I admit I've never lived anywhere temps get quite that high but surely automotive engineers can design turbo engines that stay at an acceptable temp. I built a carbed 451" 650 hp 11.8:1 comp ratio big block stroker engine with a high lift long duration solid lift cam and kept it under 200° in stop and go traffic while at a very humid 100°. I've seen several home built turbo v8 cars daily driven, they didn't have anything else to drive. I'm not trying to start an arguement but air temp is not an excuse today's auto manufacturers should be trying to use.

Hell, the asphalt hits 170*. I have a couple of friends with turbo V8's and they run 200*+. The thing I worry about is the electronics long term. I will admit that the G80 is the first car I've owned that has a computer everywhere. I keep cars and so the cost of repairing the electronics is a concern. You can no longer troubleshoot these things. Heat, vibration, dust are not compatible with electronics.

 

[Steve2020]

Hell, the asphalt hits 170*. I have a couple of friends with turbo V8's and they run 200*+. The thing I worry about is the electronics long term. I will admit that the G80 is the first car I've owned that has a computer everywhere. I keep cars and so the cost of repairing the electronics is a concern. You can no longer troubleshoot these things. Heat, vibration, dust are not compatible with electronics.

That IS hot. This is also my first car with so many electronics, it's nice in a way but there are too many things to go wrong. It wouldn't bother me if auto tech stepped back 50 years. I haven't kept many vehicles too long but this ties for 1st with my old 74 dodge d100 I built, I'm 35 and have had probably 40 vehicles in the last 20 years. I grew up around muscle cars and hotrods, that stuff is easy to diagnose and repair. There is usually plenty of room to work and you can see what you're hitting your knuckles or head on, lol.

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[SuperKing]

I bought my 5.0 because after a couple of MR2 Turbos and a Sonata 2.0T, I've had enough of turbo engines and the problems they come with. Hose pops off... limp mode... wastegate stuck? limp mode...

I'm trading in my car this year and I'm disappointed that I have to get the bigger G90. I might wait and see if Lucid's build quality is much better than Tesla and get one of those instead.

 

[Tommym]

That IS hot. This is also my first car with so many electronics, it's nice in a way but there are too many things to go wrong. It wouldn't bother me if auto tech stepped back 50 years. I haven't kept many vehicles too long but this ties for 1st with my old 74 dodge d100 I built, I'm 35 and have had probably 40 vehicles in the last 20 years. I grew up around muscle cars and hotrods, that stuff is easy to diagnose and repair. There is usually plenty of room to work and you can see what you're hitting your knuckles or head on, lol.

I'm with you on the tech issue. They have talked for years about eliminating the backyard mechanic. For the most part I think they have succeeded. The TBird is the first time I have messed with electronic fuel injection and a engine management system. Spent a lot of time reading about it and how it functions. Thank God for the internet.
I'm now getting ready to install a new engine management system by Holley just to get rid of the 80's tech and make it so the car can be tuned. I have to admit that the technology has opened up a new world where horsepower and fuel management go to extremes. Never could do it with a carbed V8. In the "old" days I spent a fortune on engine parts, carburetors and ignition systems for my 64 LeMans and 69 Roadrunner hitting the mythical 500hp using the library for information.
Now my 2019 G80 5.0 Ultimate is way beyond my talents and that scares me. Way too many gadgets. I open the hood and- What the Hell. Glad it has a great warranty but I hate relying on a dealer for problems. Hoping to find a analyzer that I can use on the Genesis to at least let me know what is wrong. Haven't found one yet that does more than just reset a light.

 

[Steve2020]

I'm with you on the tech issue. They have talked for years about eliminating the backyard mechanic. For the most part I think they have succeeded. The TBird is the first time I have messed with electronic fuel injection and a engine management system. Spent a lot of time reading about it and how it functions. Thank God for the internet.
I'm now getting ready to install a new engine management system by Holley just to get rid of the 80's tech and make it so the car can be tuned. I have to admit that the technology has opened up a new world where horsepower and fuel management go to extremes. Never could do it with a carbed V8. In the "old" days I spent a fortune on engine parts, carburetors and ignition systems for my 64 LeMans and 69 Roadrunner hitting the mythical 500hp using the library for information.
Now my 2019 G80 5.0 Ultimate is way beyond my talents and that scares me. Way too many gadgets. I open the hood and- What the Hell. Glad it has a great warranty but I hate relying on a dealer for problems. Hoping to find a analyzer that I can use on the Genesis to at least let me know what is wrong. Haven't found one yet that does more than just reset a light.

Yeah, without modern tech I would never have been able to build that 650 hp street worthy carbed engine. Lots of advances in petroleum products, design and metallurgy have been made since the 70s. I had parts on that engine that either didn't exist in the 70s or were only available to the wealthiest racers and weren't meant for street duty. I did find a Genesis scan tool but it's pretty pricey. Genesis Dealer Equipment

 

[Tommym]

I bought my 5.0 because after a couple of MR2 Turbos and a Sonata 2.0T, I've had enough of turbo engines and the problems they come with. Hose pops off... limp mode... wastegate stuck? limp mode...

I'm trading in my car this year and I'm disappointed that I have to get the bigger G90. I might wait and see if Lucid's build quality is much better than Tesla and get one of those instead.

I'm not into the battery cars although the horsepower and torque numbers are unreal. The infrastructure for those cars will not exist in significant numbers for a decade. I'm an electrician and with the new technology I'm sure something will break. The question is when.
Forced induction and longevity are not compatible. I have a diesel pick up so I'm familiar with turbo issues. I have a fortune invested in making it bulletproof. Force feeding an engine and buzzing the crap out of it for horsepower creates it's own world of problems. I'm an old guy and got over blowing things up awhile ago.
When I heard that they were doing away with the 5.0 for 2021 I started looking for a 19 or 20 G80. Found a 2019 down in Poway, CA, a Ultimate with the 5.0 with 2300mi on it. It was a dealer car, never been registered so we have the full warranty. Saved about $15,000 just in depreciation and have a "new" car.

 

[Tommym]

Yeah, without modern tech I would never have been able to build that 650 hp street worthy carbed engine. Lots of advances in petroleum products, design and metallurgy have been made since the 70s. I had parts on that engine that either didn't exist in the 70s or were only available to the wealthiest racers and weren't meant for street duty. I did find a Genesis scan tool but it's pretty pricey. Genesis Dealer Equipment

Yep, pricey it is. I found a couple by Launch USA in the $2000 range. Hoping they will come down to around the $500-$750 range and still be bidirectional. Have to be careful when buying scanners. The Launch scanners on Amazon or ebay are for the Asian market and are not supported by Launch USA. They only sell to dealers here. They do not tell you this. Found out by ordering one. Even though it was for 2020 it only went to 2018. Returned it and wrote a not complimentary review and included emails from Launch USA. China mfg tried to pay me to retract my review. I did not want someone else to run into the same problem.

650hp on a street engine would be next to impossible without modern engine management systems. Stop lights would be a killer. Now they have 1000hp motors with a warranty. I think Holden has a 1400hp kit available.

Sounds like you know engines. I've been using fuel additives and a friction modifier from Archoil for about the last 8 years on my diesel and the 5.0 in the TBird after it hit 1000 miles. Asked them about using it for the Genesis aluminum block and they said no problem. Check out the reviews. Over the years I've used probably every "greatest ever" product out there. First time I used it was in the diesel. It changed the engine sound immediately, smoothed out. EGT's dropped. Use to use 18 gal of fuel to go from San Diego to Las Vegas, changed to 16 gal. This stuff actually works.

 

[Steve2020]

Yep, pricey it is. I found a couple by Launch USA in the $2000 range. Hoping they will come down to around the $500-$750 range and still be bidirectional. Have to be careful when buying scanners. The Launch scanners on Amazon or ebay are for the Asian market and are not supported by Launch USA. They only sell to dealers here. They do not tell you this. Found out by ordering one. Even though it was for 2020 it only went to 2018. Returned it and wrote a not complimentary review and included emails from Launch USA. China mfg tried to pay me to retract my review. I did not want someone else to run into the same problem.

650hp on a street engine would be next to impossible without modern engine management systems. Stop lights would be a killer. Now they have 1000hp motors with a warranty. I think Holden has a 1400hp kit available.

Sounds like you know engines. I've been using fuel additives and a friction modifier from Archoil for about the last 8 years on my diesel and the 5.0 in the TBird after it hit 1000 miles. Asked them about using it for the Genesis aluminum block and they said no problem. Check out the reviews. Over the years I've used probably every "greatest ever" product out there. First time I used it was in the diesel. It changed the engine sound immediately, smoothed out. EGT's dropped. Use to use 18 gal of fuel to go from San Diego to Las Vegas, changed to 16 gal. This stuff actually works.

The secret to stop lights was the manual disc brakes and 3000 rpm stall 3500 flash converter, it would never have idled while holding the brakes in gear with power brakes due to no vacuum. I do know my way around pushrod engines but I've never worked on this OHC stuff.
I'll check into the Archoil, I Iove this car and I'll do just about anything for it. I've never used any fuel additives and the only oil additive I've ever used was zinc when using a solid lifter cam.

Edit: A lot of aluminum aided in keeping the temps down on that engine, that wasn't the sole purpose but an added benefit. It had an aluminum carb, big single plane aluminum intake, aluminum heads, fabbed sheet aluminum valve covers, aluminum water pump housing, aluminum water pump, aluminum thermostat housing, aluminum radiator, aluminum fan shroud and dual electric fans with aluminum housing, no mechanical fan and billet aluminum pulleys with serpentine belt. It also ran on E85.

 

[Tommym]

The secret to stop lights was the manual disc brakes and 3000 rpm stall 3500 flash converter, it would never have idled while holding the brakes in gear with power brakes due to no vacuum. I do know my way around pushrod engines but I've never worked on this OHC stuff.
I'll check into the Archoil, I Iove this car and I'll do just about anything for it. I've never used any fuel additives and the only oil additive I've ever used was zinc when using a solid lifter cam.

Edit: A lot of aluminum aided in keeping the temps down on that engine, that wasn't the sole purpose but an added benefit. It had an aluminum carb, big single plane aluminum intake, aluminum heads, fabbed sheet aluminum valve covers, aluminum water pump housing, aluminum water pump, aluminum thermostat housing, aluminum radiator, aluminum fan shroud and dual electric fans with aluminum housing, no mechanical fan and billet aluminum pulleys with serpentine belt. It also ran on E85.

Here's the 5.0 in the TBird. I still run the mechanical fan with a Cobra clutch. I like the reliability. Made a lot of mods to the cooling system once I put the A/C back in. I agree with the use of aluminum. It does help. Car doesn't have a grill, bottom feeder, so we built a all steel cowl hood to get the hot air out. I'm like you, I know zip about setting up a OHC motor.

I've never run E85. It would sure run cooler just a little hard on rubber parts like a carb. I had methyl alcohol injector on the 440 in the Roadrunner but only used it when racing. That and ram air worked good.

I stumbled across Archoil when I was looking into modifications to the lube oil system on some 4500hp water pumps we use out at Lake Meade. Initially I think it was made for lube problems with the 6.0 and 7.3 diesels. Injectors fire with 4000psi oil pressure and will cause built up shit in the injector spool valve. Causes the injectors to bind up. I use it in every oil change. Saves wear and tear. Anything you can do to reduce friction is a plus.

 

[Steve2020]

Here's the 5.0 in the TBird. I still run the mechanical fan with a Cobra clutch. I like the reliability. Made a lot of mods to the cooling system once I put the A/C back in. I agree with the use of aluminum. It does help. Car doesn't have a grill, bottom feeder, so we built a all steel cowl hood to get the hot air out. I'm like you, I know zip about setting up a OHC motor.

I've never run E85. It would sure run cooler just a little hard on rubber parts like a carb. I had methyl alcohol injector on the 440 in the Roadrunner but only used it when racing. That and ram air worked good.

I stumbled across Archoil when I was looking into modifications to the lube oil system on some 4500hp water pumps we use out at Lake Meade. Initially I think it was made for lube problems with the 6.0 and 7.3 diesels. Injectors fire with 4000psi oil pressure and will cause built up shit in the injector spool valve. Causes the injectors to bind up. I use it in every oil change. Saves wear and tear. Anything you can do to reduce friction is a plus.View attachment 34145

Very clean looking, looks like you've spent a lot of time under there. Those are some badass cars anyway but I bet that one really is. My junky looking old truck didn't have a/c from the factory or power steering for that matter but the windows worked and it had skinny fronts and it wasn't very heavy so it was fine. This picture was taken way before the truck was road ready, it never made it onto the road with that flamethrower coil and MSD box, I ended up going with a DUI setup. It ran real good with the DUI but it was too short and the valve cover had to be notched for the distributor to go in, that's a bad combo for valves that need to be adjusted. I have changed phones a couple of times and don't have any pictures of it road ready, I'm amazed I still have the few I have left.

 

[Steve2020]

This isn't completely off topic, Hyundai and Genesis could take notes.

 

[Tommym]

Very clean looking, looks like you've spent a lot of time under there. Those are some badass cars anyway but I bet that one really is. My junky looking old truck didn't have a/c from the factory or power steering for that matter but the windows worked and it had skinny fronts and it wasn't very heavy so it was fine. This picture was taken way before the truck was road ready, it never made it onto the road with that flamethrower coil and MSD box, I ended up going with a DUI setup. It ran real good with the DUI but it was too short and the valve cover had to be notched for the distributor to go in, that's a bad combo for valves that need to be adjusted. I have changed phones a couple of times and don't have any pictures of it road ready, I'm amazed I still have the few I have left.

Unfortunately every time you put something in that doesn't belong there you end up mentally challenged. I lost track of how many times I just stood there and stared at that thing. One time my buddy had to stop me from going home and getting my fire axe. Once I get the brain, sensors and engine wiring harness changed out I take it to the dyno and see what we have. Right now it starts to de-fuel at 6200. Hope to eliminate that and shift at 6500. A friend made up some boxed full length frame connectors before we tried to start it. Afraid it would lift the pan, make you lift up the doors to shut them.
I had a 79 F250, old and rough like yours. But under the hood.....
Here's what the car looks like today. I think I have the only one here in Las Vegas. The other picture is what I had in my 79 F250.