Test drove one tonight - impressions and a question

[Disaster]

rationalization for rudeness deleted

We disagree. You will continue to make rude tiresome comments. I will continue to annoy you by calling you on it...or not. I'd love to sit down and have that beer with you some time. You seem like an interesting character. I know you'd be surprised by my political views, but that isn't really relevant to this discussion.

 

[Sayantsi]

How bad the defect is to an individual depends on a lot of things, the variability in the defect, the roads they drive, and their sensitivity to it. I just saw someone post that the 14 speaker system has a defect such that the equalizer presets are lost every time one turns off the radio and that would be unacceptable to them. I have a 14 speaker system and I haven't even noticed the problem because I don't touch the equalizer. That doesn't make the issue any less for the person with it and I'm not justified in berating them because they complained about something that doesn't bother me.

You are describing a deficiency, not a defect, with the suspension - it doesn't behave how you think it should. If it was defective, it wouldn't work properly, like the equalizer you mentioned. Anyone will look at a radio and see that if it resets every time while others do not, it is not working. You will not get the same agreement from people driving a Genesis because it it a matter of personal opinion.

I've said this before, but how a car drives is probably the biggest factor to what a car is. If you don't properly test out what you buy, you have to assume some level of fault for your decision when you find something you are not satisfied with, not heap the blame elsewhere.

All that aside, bringing in such off-topic comments like someone here did does nothing but incite further argument.

 

[Disaster]

You are describing a deficiency, not a defect, with the suspension - it doesn't behave how you think it should. If it was defective, it wouldn't work properly, like the equalizer you mentioned. Anyone will look at a radio and see that if it resets every time while others do not, it is not working. You will not get the same agreement from people driving a Genesis because it it a matter of personal opinion.

The difference between defect and deficiency is semantics. The definition of a defect is "a fault or imperfection." IMHO, if your car porpoises on a stretch of road surface, it is has a defective suspension. The main reason you don't get agreement is that only a few people are experiencing this.

I would agree that my car exhibits poor suspension tuning and I personally wouldn't call it defective unless I ran into the porpoising condition.

I've said this before, but how a car drives is probably the biggest factor to what a car is. If you don't properly test out what you buy, you have to assume some level of fault for your decision when you find something you are not satisfied with, not heap the blame elsewhere.

As I and others have mentioned before, this isn't something you will pick up on on a typical ride. You have to drive on the exact surface where the problem exists. It is unfair to blame the purchaser because he didn't drive the vehicle over every possible surface. Our dealer lent us their demo and I drove it over many roads and never experienced really bad behavior...and we haven't seen it much since then either...just over a few surfaces, and none to the level some people have experienced.

All that aside, bringing in such off-topic comments like someone here did does nothing but incite further argument.

...or incite further discussion...which should be OK in a forum, IMHO. In the words of "flyboy", "arguments are good and healthy."

 

[ASHDUMP]

Speaking of politics..... Representin' Massachusetts!

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_VE2d0NV0I&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- The Guy From Boston - Harsh Laws[/nomedia]

 

[Sayantsi]

The difference between defect and deficiency is semantics. The definition of a defect is "a fault or imperfection." IMHO, if your car porpoises on a stretch of road surface, it is has a defective suspension. The main reason you don't get agreement is that only a few people are experiencing this.

Exactly. Its perception, its a few people, and its not really a problem. No car is designed to perform well over every road condition imaginable, and that is an unreasonable request. Its one thing to say "I'm not happy with my car's ride", its another to say "all the cars are defective!" and then, "some of the cars are defective!"

 

[The Doc]

Test drove an Infiniti G37 (too small) Infiniti M37 (waaaayyy too many distractions on the console & dash and far too weak with the V6. Also far too expensive with the V8) Cadillac CTS (too much cheesy plastic inside and also woefully underpowered) Genesis V6, and Genesis V8 all last Saturday. Genesis V8 won hands down and I'm happily driving it today. Without a doubt best bang for your buck. Lexus ES350 is a really nice Camry but still ultimately a Camry, Acura TL looks awful these days (and that's what I traded from) Acura RL is a big TL and also way overpriced. BMW 535i was sweet as was Mercedes E class, but I could find better things to do with the extra $25000 it would have cost me to buy either.

 

[Konig]

is it possible to fit 17" wheels on the v8 genesis despite the bigger brakes? Its usually nice to downsize wheels for winter tires.

 

[ld_gen]

Test drove an Infiniti G37 (too small) Infiniti M37 (waaaayyy too many distractions on the console & dash and far too weak with the V6. Also far too expensive with the V8) Cadillac CTS (too much cheesy plastic inside and also woefully underpowered) Genesis V6, and Genesis V8 all last Saturday. Genesis V8 won hands down and I'm happily driving it today. Without a doubt best bang for your buck. Lexus ES350 is a really nice Camry but still ultimately a Camry, Acura TL looks awful these days (and that's what I traded from) Acura RL is a big TL and also way overpriced. BMW 535i was sweet as was Mercedes E class, but I could find better things to do with the extra $25000 it would have cost me to buy either.

Yes, I have to agree with Doc. Being new to this forum, I just wanted to share my test drive experiences on different cars with others members as well as to learn new things on this forum. I did test drive the following cars along with the Genesis v6/v8: ES350, BMW 335i, MB E350, later test drove MB550 from a friend of mine, GS37S, M35, Volvo S80. Our list narrowed to BMW335i, MB E350, Genesis and S80. The new volvo S80 drive was so smooth with beautiful elegant interior, however the rear leg room was too small, and since we have owned the volvos before, we decided to try on others. The BMW drive was awaresome but it is a small car and it has RFT features which I am not quite convinced. I came back and forth try to decide between MB E350 and Genesis. The MB drive was really smooth, good handling, beautiful luxury interior and has a well known brand name and I really respect it. Thie brandname needed time and proven record for its stand the test of time. The Genesis on the other hand is bigger, also has elegant interior design, has stronger driving feel, its driving character is more similar with MB than with BMW, smooth driving and quiet interior as much as the MB E350, and also has 1st rating on car safety. Now, when adding the options on MB cost extra ~$20000. I respect these options, as it belongs to the brandname car. The thing the Genesis lacks is its luxury brand but it is a luxury car for sure, and its realiability record on the Genesis (yet), but since everything needs a start. The Genesis came up on top. I want to give Hyundai a chance on this beautiful and solid design of Genesis. Between V6/V8, we endup with the V8 just because I wanted more power. (The V6 is as nice as V8 with less power and different transmisson type). I am very happy with the Genesis choice out of the other cars. So far, I have not seen any problem with it (yet). This is only my feedback from my car and my opinion.

 

[Disaster]

No car is designed to perform well over every road condition imaginable, and that is an unreasonable request.

That is true from the standpoint that suspensions are purposely designed for different usages. For example, an offroad suspension will have longer travel for ground clearance and to absorb large inputs. A racing suspension will have very little travel, designed to keep the chassis flat and the wheels in contact with the road during high g-force cornering.

However, soft or hard, long travel or short, all suspensions are designed such that input frequencies will be outside the natural frequencies of the suspension. What this means is that no matter what frequency of input the suspension sees, it should always react in the opposite direction with equal or lower displacement. The inputs should never feed more displacement into the mass than the displacement of the input (in this case, the road surface.) This is a fundamental of all spring/damper systems, whether they be suspensions or engine mounts. This is done by adjusting the damping rate, knowing the spring rates, mechanism design and inertias.

Suspension engineers often tweak rates by seat of the pants feel, but the rates are checked by computers using dynamic analysis. Then the vehicles are driven over a variety of surfaces to confirm that there are no issues. Finally, a small fleet of vehicles is dispatched across the country to confirm durability and vet out any other suspension and NVH issues that might occur on real world surfaces. All this is done before a single vehicle is delivered to a customer.

I suspect Hyundai took some shortcuts in this process when bringing the Korean Genesis into the U.S. market. There was comments in reviews of late suspension changes based on feedback from drivers. I suspect these changes weren't checked completely. Late changes are the nemesis of quality.

Most people might never encounter the conditions that cause the worst case suspension response, the porpoising. Others, might experience what feels like a "stiff" suspension over some surfaces, but it is actually the suspension hitting a frequency that causes the inputs to be amplified into the cabin, instead of damped. This is what caused the more experienced drivers to describe the car as "unsettled" or "jittery."

 

[Mark_888]

Mark...have you had conversations with Hyundai? I've spoken with several members of the Genesis team on unrelated matters and they have proved extremely helpful. I don't see a problem with you seeking a resolution, free or otherwise (I myself got the trunk liner and am currently awaiting reimbursement), but it just strikes me, right or wrong, that the back and forth you're having with members here ought to be with the people at Hyundai who at least have the ability to do something about it. If you find out new information as you go along, I'm sure members would be very receptive to that. I know I would. Again, I apologize if I offended you or anyone else. This will be the last I post on this topic.

Because people who want to discuss the suspension issue on this forum are often attacked and harassed, there is sort of an underground forum consisting mostly of PM's and emails among people who do want to discuss it. I know of two people who pressed very hard with HMA, and the final resolution was that if a owner thinks the 2010 suspension is better, trade your 2009 car in for a 2010 model. HMA said that they will not provide any information to dealers on how to upgrade the suspension and they would discourage such activity. My suspicion is that HMA is afraid of some legal problems if they facilitate the upgrade in any way, but I don't now what they are thinking for certain.

At least one person posted in this forum that he had his brother (an experienced mechanic) order the 2010 parts (springs and shocks) and install them on his 2009 model, and reported a definite improvement (but still "pleasantly" firm).

I am not sure what I will do, but I am casually looking for a good mechanic to do the work, since apparently Hyundai dealers are being told not to do it. But I never claimed that the 2009 suspension is horrible, so I am not loosing any sleep over it.

Quite a few members on this forum seek to improve their car with different rims, tips, pillars, exhaust systems, headers, ECU chips, HID lighting, LED interior lighting, sub-woofers, ad nausea, so I don't see what the big deal is about someone wanting to get the 2010 suspension upgrades on their car. Personally, I think most of these other mods and upgrades are a bit ridiculous, but I don't harass other people about it because it is their car, their money, and they have a right to free speech.

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[Disaster]

is it possible to fit 17" wheels on the v8 genesis despite the bigger brakes? Its usually nice to downsize wheels for winter tires.

I don't believe so. Some people even have had problems with aftermarket 18" rims.

 

[Disaster]

The new volvo S80 drive was so smooth with beautiful elegant interior, however the rear leg room was too small, and since we have owned the volvos before, we decided to try on others.

Funny, that was exactly our experience. I liked the way the Volvo S80 drove, liked the simple, but elegant Swedish interior, but the rear seat leg room was ridiculous. With the front seat set for my 6 foot frame, my knees were squashed against the back of the seat. We too, have driven Volvos...had 4 leases before the Genesis, and we really wanted to try something new.

I was more confident of Hyundai's quality knowing the problems Mercedes and BMW are having.

Of course, the price/value is a huge amount of icing on the cake.

 

[nearwater]

is it possible to fit 17" wheels on the v8 genesis despite the bigger brakes? Its usually nice to downsize wheels for winter tires.

Discount Tire Direct has listings of smaller wheels, but not sure they're a confirmed fit.
It's not necessarily downsizing the wheels that provides benefit, but narrower width tires that can cut through heavy snow as opposed to wider tires sliding over.

Dan

 

[sherrod]

Test drove an Infiniti G37 (too small) Infiniti M37 (waaaayyy too many distractions on the console & dash and far too weak with the V6. Also far too expensive with the V8) Cadillac CTS (too much cheesy plastic inside and also woefully underpowered) Genesis V6, and Genesis V8 all last Saturday. Genesis V8 won hands down and I'm happily driving it today. Without a doubt best bang for your buck. Lexus ES350 is a really nice Camry but still ultimately a Camry, Acura TL looks awful these days (and that's what I traded from) Acura RL is a big TL and also way overpriced. BMW 535i was sweet as was Mercedes E class, but I could find better things to do with the extra $25000 it would have cost me to buy either.

Good comparisons, but the BMW that most closely matches a V8 Genesis is the 550i. Configured to match the Genesis 4.6 with Tech, the 550i costs $68,380.

 

[XBOHDPuKC]

all I said was that I test drove a Genesis, and look what it turned into....

Anyways, went to a Lexus dealer today to test drive a GS350. It's a nice car, but you know what, I really can't see that 12K difference in price. Seriously. Why that wasn't a deal breaker, dealer's attitude was. "You can get a car with these options only" (being some overpriced optional 18'' wheels and no smart cruise control, which so far was my favorite feature in Genesis and I swear I won't get a car without it. "To get 17'' wheel and a SCC you will have to do a special order and we charge 10% over MSRP for that" With that we have parted our ways.

 

[Disaster]

all I said was that I test drove a Genesis, and look what it turned into....

Anyways, went to a Lexus dealer today to test drive a GS350. It's a nice car, but you know what, I really can't see that 12K difference in price. Seriously. Why that wasn't a deal breaker, dealer's attitude was. "You can get a car with these options only" (being some overpriced optional 18'' wheels and no smart cruise control, which so far was my favorite feature in Genesis and I swear I won't get a car without it. "To get 17'' wheel and a SCC you will have to do a special order and we charge 10% over MSRP for that" With that we have parted our ways.

It is hard to believe, in the middle of a recession, dealerships are still treating people that way. I experienced a pretty similar attitude at a Toyota dealership I visited last year. The sales manager said this is the cars we have, and the price we charge, take them or leave them. I left them.

 

[Disaster]

I am not sure what I will do, but I am casually looking for a good mechanic to do the work, since apparently Hyundai dealers are being told not to do it. But I never claimed that the 2009 suspension is horrible, so I am not loosing any sleep over it.

Quite a few members on this forum seek to improve their car with different rims, tips, pillars, exhaust systems, headers, ECU chips, HID lighting, LED interior lighting, sub-woofers, ad nausea, so I don't see what the big deal is about someone wanting to get the 2010 suspension upgrades on their car. Personally, I think most of these other mods and upgrades are a bit ridiculous, but I don't harass other people about it because it is their car, their money, and they have a right to free speech.

Great point. I'm not interested in making my Genesis sound louder, or meaner for example, but I am interested in making it drive and handle better. Before I spend the cash on new struts (and possibly springs and bushings) I want to know how much difference it will really make, to see if it's worth a couple thousand dollars. I may wait till the stock shocks start to wear out. When shocks wear, their damping generally gets worse. Since I suspect the damping is marginal now, I suspect the ride will really suffer when that happens. At that time I would probably order 2010 struts...just tell the dealer I have a 2010 model (but gotta be sure they will fit the 2009 first.) I installed new struts and springs on my Avalon myself...plan to do the same with the Genesis, so my only expense is the parts.

I'm also interested in the steering change that was made. I've heard a couple people complain about the car pulling but the alignment is correct. My wife complains about the same thing, but when I checked the alignment it was OK, so I suspect she is having the same issue mentioned.

 

[doug725]

Then do us a favor and stop coming into threads and discussions about the ride and harranging anyone who has an issue or question about their defective, deficient (or whatever), jittery ride. WE GET IT - you don't thtink there is a problem with the ride and anyone who thinks they have one is clearly wrong, lying, girly, whiny or to blame because they "didn't do" a test drive. And oh - Hyundai should never have to stand behind their product. I assume then that if something breaks on your car you will not be using your warranty or holding Hyundai in anyway responsible - right? I thought so.

I've seen just as many people complain about the nav system as I have the suspension system. The difference is, there are nav system issues, and that's why there's a TSB for them. All I've seen are opinions, and those are far from substantial - the difference is, for everyone with no problems with the characteristics of their car, no one keeps bringing up how they have no problems. Yet, the same small group of people never miss an opportunity to complain that they don't like the car's handling characteristics, and think it is a defect that requires Hyundai to take action. Its not.

If the suspension is too lively for you, change it, buy an Avalon, but don't keep whining about it in every thread here. If you really must continue to complain, do it in the forum that was started just for suspension discussion. Its getting even more ridiculous now that Hyundai is selling 2010 models and its supposedly a problem with early-year 2009 models. What's next, complaining that the Tiburon has a weak engine and you shouldn't buy one?

 

[flyboy2]

Hey... let's be nice. There are some sensitive people on this site... Me for one. Ranger training didn't cover "dealing with mean people in a forum".

In the immortal words of Rodney King as he got the hell beat out of him--

"Can't we all get along?"

or was it...

"Please leave Britney Spears alone!!!"

 

[Sayantsi]

Then do us a favor and stop coming into threads and discussions about the ride and harranging anyone who has an issue or question about their defective, deficient (or whatever), jittery ride. WE GET IT - you don't thtink there is a problem with the ride and anyone who thinks they have one is clearly wrong, lying, girly, whiny or to blame because they "didn't do" a test drive. And oh - Hyundai should never have to stand behind their product. I assume then that if something breaks on your car you will not be using your warranty or holding Hyundai in anyway responsible - right? I thought so.

This post proves that you in fact don't get where I'm coming from. I can't help you get a clue either.