2011 3.8 Genesis sedan cold start "DEATH RATTLE"

[dtevescar]

Anyone else have the horrible "rattling" usually first start in the morning? It will also occur during short trips around town. Dealer response??? It is perfectly normal!! Well, I am embarrassed when anyone hears that noise, and turns their head to see who the fool is that wants to drive that old rattletrap??? I swear, it sounds like the junkyard's resident tow truck. After some research, I have found the noise is caused by a loose timing chain, whose chain tensioners have lost oil pressure from the piston that holds the tensioner against the timing chain, when the engine is shut down. I understand that Hyundai has done a redesign of the piston actuators, and the new design does not lose oil pressure when the engine stops.....however....as is usually the case, dealer is in total denial of the problem. I wonder if the timing chain breaks, as a result of the slapping against the chain housing, will the warrantee be honored? There are several utube videos about this issue, and they say what it is, and show the new design for the chain tensioning devices.
What do you think??? Sell the car before it breaks?? Or just cringe every time you start it, hoping no one will look??? (which is what I do now)

 

[Mark_888]

If it is still under warranty, take it to a different dealer. It might not hurt to print out a copy of the forum thread that discusses the problem and solution.

 

[20113.8]

My 2011 3.8 sedan is doing it now. 2 quotes, 1 non-hyundai (@$2800.), 1 hyundai (worst case, $4500). wow. Love the car, but those are crazy prices. Hyundai is "plugging it in" tomorrow, we'll see if they can narrow it down (and a lesser quote would be nice...)

 

[dtevescar]

Let me know if "plugging it in" does anything...(it won't). the dealers around here charge 140 dollars for a analysis... and if they can't duplicate your problem, or, it isn't a warrantee covered issue, you pay your $140 and go on your way with no resolution! The chain tensioners are a engine design problem, but Hyundai does not acknowledge them as an issue worth addressing. This design issue showed up early on in their 3.3 v/6 in the Sonatas. I have discovered that after the car has been driven and thoroughly warmed up, allow the engine to cool off for a several hours, and when you restart, the rattle will show itself. I have had two service managers tell me it is perfectly normal....IT IS NOT NORMAL!!! There are several you tube videos about this issue...

 

[EdP]

This design issue showed up early on in their 3.3 v/6 in the Sonatas. I have discovered that after the car has been driven and thoroughly warmed up, allow the engine to cool off for a several hours, and when you restart, the rattle will show itself. I have had two service managers tell me it is perfectly normal....IT IS NOT NORMAL!!! There are several you tube videos about this issue...

How many miles typically before it show up? Has anyone had failure from it or is it just a noise issue?

 

[martyk]

Let me know if "plugging it in" does anything...(it won't). the dealers around here charge 140 dollars for a analysis... and if they can't duplicate your problem, or, it isn't a warrantee covered issue, you pay your $140 and go on your way with no resolution! The chain tensioners are a engine design problem, but Hyundai does not acknowledge them as an issue worth addressing. This design issue showed up early on in their 3.3 v/6 in the Sonatas. I have discovered that after the car has been driven and thoroughly warmed up, allow the engine to cool off for a several hours, and when you restart, the rattle will show itself. I have had two service managers tell me it is perfectly normal....IT IS NOT NORMAL!!! There are several you tube videos about this issue...

Which dealer did you go to.

Marty

 

[Mark_888]

On my G1 with 3.8 V6 engine, it became quieter when I switched from Mobil 1 5W-20 to Mobil 1 5W-30. I believe that in newer G80 models (with similar engine to the Hyundai Genesis V6), they now require 5W-30 viscosity.

Try it.

 

[dougmcp]

On my G1 with 3.8 V6 engine, it became quieter when I switched from Mobil 1 5W-20 to Mobil 1 5W-30. I believe that in newer G80 models (with similar engine to the Hyundai Genesis V6), they now require 5W-30 viscosity.

Try it.

That was a thought I had as well. I have run a 5-30 synthetic since taking ownership of my 2013 3.8 and have had zero issues. I did have a Passat V6 that rattled on startup from similar hydraulic collapses and I switched from 5-20 to 5-30 at about 120K miles and for the next 70K miles when I sold the car the rattle went away. I attributed it to the hydraulic chain tensioners loosing prime.

 

[dtevescar]

I am using Mobil 1 15w-50, which quieted it for a short while, but the rattling still happens on most cold starts. I read a TSB from Hyundai about this issue, somewhere on the internet, which gave direction to dealers to run the engine, stop it for 10 minutes, start it, listening for the noise, repeat this routine three times, If the noise shows up after the 10 minute wait between starts, it MIGHT be an engine problem....

 

[20113.8]

My local dealer diagnosed it as a weak code on 1 & 2 intake cvvt's, and on one of the exhaust (can't remember which one, the "pamphlet" they printed out isn't here with me), and handed me a $4600. quote.
Ouch.
And would only acknowledge that my car is "high mileage" (120000km), hence the timing chain issue."Probably sludge is causing the springs to weaken. That's why the pressure is dropping, letting the tension off".
They suggested a "hot engine flush", to clean out the sludge, and switch to the full synthetic.
Not sure how to proceed, the car is only worth @ 4x the repair cost.

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[dtevescar]

Re: 2011 3.8 Genesis sedan cold start "DEATH RATTLE"

The mentioned Hyundai Tech. Service Bulletin...... hyundai TSB 10-EM-006

- - - Updated - - -

If the timing chain skips one tooth on the sprocket, you will destroy the valves and pistons..... Everything goes out of sync.....

 

[dtevescar]

Oil pressure keeps the tension on the chain, when the oil drains out of the piston that tightens the chain, the chain "slaps" the inside of the chain housing until sufficient oil pressure is returns.... 75000 miles is not a lot of miles on this engine.... Personally, I would avoid flushing the engine, that usually causes the dirt and sludge to move into more areas than where it was before... I have used synthetic for the life of the motor, and switching to a 15w-50 mobil 1 quieted it down quite a bit.

 

[lancecoincollection]

2011 Genesis Sedan, 3.8 with 20,000 miles. I bought new.
This timing chain rattle started a few months ago. Using
Mobil 1 5W 20 Synthetic, starting with 1st. oil change.

Watching Scotty Kilmer on youtube regularly, this problem
was addressed on 3.3 Hyundia engine. The mechanic showing
the problem to Kilmer, had a fix in mind. To use ATS engine
cleaner. No follow up, if this worked. Have my order in, but
not in stock.

When I get the back ordered ATS. If works, or not, I
will post results. And will try the 5W 30, if wait is too long
for the ATS cleaner.

Kilmer stated, problem, not serious. No action needed.

 

[toxicavenger70]

Kilmer is a snake oil salesman. He should be in info commercials.

 

[Gunkk]

A step or two higher in oil viscosity (5w30, 0w40) might help. I would not recommend 15w50 unless it's for summer only and you live in a hot climate (FL, TX, LA, NM, AZ, etc.) ... that is some thick stuff and could cause issues unless you know what you're doing.

 

[lancecoincollection]

Kilmer is a snake oil salesman. He should be in info commercials.

Kilmer is a snake oil salesman. He should be in info commercials.

Can you expand on this response. He seems sincere in his
answers to folks problems with their ride. One thing I take
away from his program, is the need for a good scan tool
to find a problem. Of course you need the knowledge of
what the scan is telling you.

 

[lancecoincollection]

2011 Genesis Sedan, 3.8 with 20,000 miles. I bought new.
This timing chain rattle started a few months ago. Using
Mobil 1 5W 20 Synthetic, starting with 1st. oil change.

Watching Scotty Kilmer on youtube regularly, this problem
was addressed on 3.3 Hyundia engine. The mechanic showing
the problem to Kilmer, had a fix in mind. To use ATS engine
cleaner. No follow up, if this worked. Have my order in, but
not in stock.

When I get the back ordered ATS. If works, or not, I
will post results. And will try the 5W 30, if wait is too long
for the ATS cleaner.

Kilmer stated, problem, not serious. No action needed.

Update: ATS Chemical engine cleaner did NOT fix this problem.
Reading statements on this site, made me understand the
Timing Chain tension device was defective when installed.
My 3.8, Port injection was build late 2010. I think late 2011
went to Direct Injection. Noticed this when buying oil filter.
[If you own a 2011 3.8, please let me know if yours, built in
2011, is DFI

 

[toxicavenger70]

Can you expand on this response. He seems sincere in his
answers to folks problems with their ride. One thing I take
away from his program, is the need for a good scan tool
to find a problem. Of course you need the knowledge of
what the scan is telling you.

This Emmy-Award Winning YouTube Mechanic Is Full Of Shit

YouTube is a medium where mostly interesting people share mostly interesting things like cat fail videos and safe-for-work porn. However, there are certain outlets that give advice on certain automotive topics, namely the popular Scotty Kilmer channel, that you should take with a nearly lethal...

jalopnik.com

He has been full of crap for years: Scotty Kilmer legit - Google Search

 

[toxicavenger70]

What oil and oil filter are you using?

 

[lancecoincollection]

What oil and oil filter are you using?

Did not want to confuse, if the ATS engine cleaner would
work on the timing chain striking the housing, So I used
5W20 Mobile 1, synthetic. Same oil I've used every oil change.