Is the 2.0T AWD G70 still fast enough to be fun?

[ctrcbob]

Still fast enough and fun enough to get you a ticket.

Lots of street racing in Orlando. Tell you what. We will start out from a light in Orlando, and the first on to Phoenix (or Denver etc) wins.

 

[Geeman4242]

I have the 22 g70 2.0t I would say the 6.2 to 60 is more accurate. What I like about it is the turbos pull up to 6 thousands power band also I have a 2018 infiniti q50 non redsport and the power dies after 5 thousands rpm. Just got a jb4 for the g70 and now it's some different.

 

[Geeman4242]

Just got the 22 2.0 awd and I have 18 q50 3.0t and it's not bad I would say around 0 to 60 in 6 sec. Also the Is Is twinscroll turbo builds power slow but up to high rpm just the opposite for the q50 it's power is fast but dies late faster.

 

[JCtx]

Is the 2.0T twin scroll? I thought only the new 2.5T. Does anybody know for sure? Just curious now .

 

[rmod]

I'll be coming from a 2012 Audi S4 with a SC/V6. The 333 HP power is fun, but I don't get many chances to go full throttle due to traffic. It's really overkill. I'm thinking the AWD 2.0 top trim G70 would give me better gas mileage. But, will I be disappointed from what I'm used to?

Based on what you are coming from....I think you will miss the extra power. I'd get the 3.3 and run it stock rather than getting the 2.0 and mod it for extra power. The fuel mileage difference will be negligible once you add the mods and run premium fuel on the 2.0.
Also google Hyundai Theta 2 engine.

 

[Volfy]

Based on what you are coming from....I think you will miss the extra power. I'd get the 3.3 and run it stock rather than getting the 2.0 and mod it for extra power. The fuel mileage difference will be negligible once you add the mods and run premium fuel on the 2.0.
Also google Hyundai Theta 2 engine.

Yes, Google Hyundai Theta 2 and you'll find that the 2.0L turbo GDI variant alone is used in no less than 10 FWD (G4KH) and 3 RWD (G4KL) vehicles, most of which are high-volume lines. If you include the entire Theta II lineage, they account for a wide swath of Hyundai's passenger vehicles. It is undoubted their bread & butter engine line and arguably accounts for much of their combined corporate success in the past decade.

Contrast that with the 3.3T, which belongs to the Lambda II GDI family. This version (G6DP) is used only in the Genesis G70/80/90 and Kia K9/Stinger. All low volume, all RWD.

The more cars running on the road - in varying MSRPs - invariably means more problems encountered. Besides, if you read up on the Theta II recall and related lawsuits, of the 1.7million cars and SUVs affected, none were RWD. If you are gonna drag G70 2.0T into that, then you might as well drag the entire Genesis portfolio in with the recent Hyundai/Kia theft fiasco. But I think we are smarter than that and know how to read matters with the proper perspectives.

The 3.3T is undoubtedly a great powerplant and thoroughly outclasses the 2.0T. Personally, I agree it's silly to think that a guy can mod the 2.0T to be on par with a stock 3.3T.

That said, I also think it's awfully shortsighted to think that the performance of a car is defined solely by its HP/TQ... unless, of course, the only meaningful skill a driver possesses is that of pushing the accelerator 2 inches into the floor.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Yes, Google Hyundai Theta 2 and you'll find that the 2.0L turbo GDI variant alone is used in no less than 10 FWD (G4KH) and 3 RWD (G4KL) vehicles, most of which are high-volume lines. If you include the entire Theta II lineage, they account for a wide swath of Hyundai's passenger vehicles. It is undoubted their bread & butter engine line and arguably accounts for much of their combined corporate success in the past decade.

Contrast that with the 3.3T, which belongs to the Lambda II GDI family. This version (G6DP) is used only in the Genesis G70/80/90 and Kia K9/Stinger. All low volume, all RWD.

The more cars running on the road - in varying MSRPs - invariably means more problems encountered. Besides, if you read up on the Theta II recall and related lawsuits, of the 1.7million cars and SUVs affected, none were RWD. If you are gonna drag G70 2.0T into that, then you might as well drag the entire Genesis portfolio in with the recent Hyundai/Kia theft fiasco. But I think we are smarter than that and know how to read matters with the proper perspectives.

The 3.3T is undoubtedly a great powerplant and thoroughly outclasses the 2.0T. Personally, I agree it's silly to think that a guy can mod the 2.0T to be on par with a stock 3.3T.

That said, I also think it's awfully shortsighted to think that the performance of a car is defined solely by its HP/TQ... unless, of course, the only meaningful skill a driver possesses is that of pushing the accelerator 2 inches into the floor.

Always enjoy hearing your perspective.. never lacking data.

Thumbs up

 

[rmod]

The 3.3T is undoubtedly a great powerplant and thoroughly outclasses the 2.0T. Personally, I agree it's silly to think that a guy can mod the 2.0T to be on par with a stock 3.3T.

This is what I was getting at. Thanks.

I completely agree about the Theta II engine. Don't get me wrong, it's a great engine but with a tainted image. The person looking to get one should know about it. My point is why get a 2.0T when the op is coming from more powerful engine? Wouldn't you agree that getting a smaller engine and pushing it with mods will make it less reliable?

Regarding the driver's skill argument, please let me know honestly...if the G70 manual RWD was available with 3.3 engine, would you still get the 2.0?

P.S. I thought the the Kia Hyundai theft was only in the cars with manual keys without immobilizers.

 

[Volfy]

Regarding the driver's skill argument, please let me know honestly...if the G70 manual RWD was available with 3.3 engine, would you still get the 2.0?

I absolutely would. We bought ours specifically because my son wanted to learn to drive manual and I wanted to introduce him to performance driving.

First, there is the obvious insurance premium advantage of the lesser HP car. This is especially true when we have a young male adult on the policy. And soon to be two of them!

Second, and more importantly... while more HP/TQ certainly can be more fun, there is such a thing as too much of it when used as a learning tool. When you first get into performance driving, the goal is not simply to clock the fastest lap time. Rather. it is to learn the fundamentals:

1. Following the racing line.
2. Judging corner entry speed.
3 Managing weight transfer, both dive/squat and laterally.
4. Modulating throttle/brake control for optimum use of available tire traction.

None of these fundamentals requires big HP/TQ. In fact, having excessive amount can actually distract from the lessons at hand. Too much HP/TQ makes the throttle control more difficult and exaggerates the consequences of incorrect power application. Besides, it can teach bad habits by de-emphasizing momentum preservation. All that HP/TQ lets the driver get sloppy going into and through the corner and compensate by simply muscling out of it with raw power.

It is exactly the same - if not even more pronounced - when it comes to motorcycling. This is why most seasoned riders would recommend against bringing a liter-class sportbike to your first track day. A lighter and smaller cc bike is far easier to learn on, more fun, and safer to boot. My track bunny is an old '05 Gixxer 600, even though I ride far larger and more powerful road bikes. If you talk to dirtbike riders, they'll tell you exactly the same thing.

I'm glad Genesis paired the 6MT with the 2.0T. It sets the tone of it as a momentum car, no different than that of the Miata or BRZ/GR86, or S2000, or any number of moderate HP pure driver's cars. It teaches discipline that will, in time, make one a fast driver. That, to me, is far more valuable and desirable than simple a fast car.

 

[rmod]

I absolutely would. We bought ours specifically because my son wanted to learn to drive manual and I wanted to introduce him to performance driving.

First, there is the obvious insurance premium advantage of the lesser HP car. This is especially true when we have a young male adult on the policy. And soon to be two of them!

Second, and more importantly... while more HP/TQ certainly can be more fun, there is such a thing as too much of it when used as a learning tool. When you first get into performance driving, the goal is not simply to clock the fastest lap time. Rather. it is to learn the fundamentals:

1. Following the racing line.
2. Judging corner entry speed.
3 Managing weight transfer, both dive/squat and laterally.
4. Modulating throttle/brake control for optimum use of available tire traction.

None of these fundamentals requires big HP/TQ. In fact, having excessive amount can actually distract from the lessons at hand. Too much HP/TQ makes the throttle control more difficult and exaggerates the consequences of incorrect power application. Besides, it can teach bad habits by de-emphasizing momentum preservation. All that HP/TQ lets the driver get sloppy going into and through the corner and compensate by simply muscling out of it with raw power.

It is exactly the same - if not even more pronounced - when it comes to motorcycling. This is why most seasoned riders would recommend against bringing a liter-class sportbike to your first track day. A lighter and smaller cc bike is far easier to learn on, more fun, and safer to boot. My track bunny is an old '05 Gixxer 600, even though I ride far larger and more powerful road bikes. If you talk to dirtbike riders, they'll tell you exactly the same thing.

I'm glad Genesis paired the 6MT with the 2.0T. It sets the tone of it as a momentum car, no different than that of the Miata or BRZ/GR86, or S2000, or any number of moderate HP pure driver's cars. It teaches discipline that will, in time, make one a fast driver. That, to me, is far more valuable and desirable than simple a fast car.

OK. thanks. Glad to know that it worked out for your situation regarding insurance etc. I did not know that it would make that much of a difference with insurance in USA. Also thank you for the quick update on your track fundamentals/history. I applaud your knowledge in these areas. I personally have no interest in tracking / racing / tuning so excuse me if i skipped some reading.

Lets not get on a tangent....coming back to the op's original question - do you agree or not agree that a 3.3 is more "fun" for everyday driving than the 2.0? Would you feel the difference in power when compared to the cars that the OP is coming from? Don't get me wrong, I own a 2.0 and have driven the 3.3 as a loner and it was definitely more fun for simpletons like us who use these cars as daily drivers in boring traffic situation.

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[Volfy]

Lets not get on a tangent....coming back to the op's original question - do you agree or not agree that a 3.3 is more "fun" for everyday driving than the 2.0? Would you feel the difference in power when compared to the cars that the OP is coming from? Don't get me wrong, I own a 2.0 and have driven the 3.3 as a loner and it was definitely more fun for simpletons like us who use these cars as daily drivers in boring traffic situation.

"Fun" is a subjective quality only the person driving the car can decide. I know I sound like I'm being facetious, but I assure you I am not.

In motorcycle circles, there is a common saying that goes something like: "it's more fun a ride a slow bike fast, than it is to ride a fast bike slow." Point is... here in the US, there isn't too many places where you can actually let even a moderately powered bike (or car) stretch its legs, without drawing attention from the squad with flashing red/white. Realistically, what is the point of having 650HP... or 450HP... or 365HP, when on public roads you cannot even stomp on the loud pedal for more than 3 seconds?! Honestly, the most fun I ever had driving a road car was in my old '89 VW GTI with measly 123HP. I could dart around town, rowing the 5sp stick to keep the revs up, screaming all the way up to 7200RPM redline, making nine kinds of raucous, and have a ball of fun all day, without really going fast enough to get in trouble with the Law.

This past Winter, I took my family up to the Ouchitas and Ozarks for vacation. My oldest and I shared the driving, and even he was surprised at how much fun it was to drive the mountain switchbacks, hairpins and sweepers... even in our 6000 lbs GMC Savana vacation van. Scared the bejesus out of my wife and daughter at times, but even they were laughing it up. We had so much fun, my son and I vowed to go back and retrace those roads this Summer... this time, in our G70 6MT Sport.

Would I take a G70 3.3T instead? Yeah, if somebody wants to give me a free 800mile rental. Why not? Would the extra 110HP make it more fun? Doubtful. It won't be of much use through the mountain switchbacks, hairpins and sweepers. In fact, for the twisties, I would genuinely prefer the lighter weight and better chassis balance of the 2.0T.

But... not everybody is into that sort of thing. If a guy's idea of "fun" is straight-line pissing contest with other motorheads, forget the 2.0T. That would be like bringing a 9mm to a fight with 357 and 44 Magnum. Then again, they'll all be outgunned when others show up packin' 454 Casull and 500 Mag.

 

[Slip_Angle]

I've had 2.0T loaners and they are definitely decent but in my personal view, I wouldn't buy a G70 unless it was the 3.3T. That's because the point of this car for me is power and handling. Basically performance... I want the big power. In fact, I have mine tuned and find stock to be relatively sedate lol...

 

[rmod]

"Fun" is a subjective quality only the person driving the car can decide

I could not agree more!
The OP has to try the car for themselves and decide.

For my requirements, the 2.0 has ample power. However, there have been instances where i wished I had the 3.3....like when the hybird/electric has decided to hypermile at the merging lane when I can see 2 semi's homing in my mirror.....To get away from the path of the soccer mom bearing down at the speed of sound in their minivan to get her kid from the daycare at the end of the day.....To get away from the distracted driver in their Civic Type R.....you get the picture.

On another note...I understand what you mean by squeezing the most out of the lemon so to speak. From where I came from (lets just call it a developing country as calling it a third world country seems derogatory), cars were used just as appliances and our family never owned one growing up. Even then, a friend's Suzuki Alto with their tiny F8B engines (35 hp and 45 lb torque) and 4 speed manuals were "fun"!
Upon moving here (Canada), I am amazed to see how defensive people get when speaking about brands - especially with cars. I understand now that it is in the culture.

Regarding the engines....brands aside, the Theta II, based on the "World Global Engine" project has been successful in different variants in different brands. Regarding the rucus regarding the reliability, this is what I think....we have to understand the psychology of the people who complain. For example if I am on a budget, i buy a car that is cheap...do my "regular maintenance" at the cheapest 5 min lube place...and when the engine starves of oil and spins a bearing because they used an oil filter with no bypass valve, I complain. These kind of people I think make up the major demographics. As for Genesis....these people are willing to take care of their cars and also the ownership does not usually last for >100K miles. Hence I think not a single report of engine failures yet. Kudos to Hyundai for extending the warranty and replacing the blocks for free if that happens.

The only reason I mentioned the OP to "Google" Theta II engines is so that they can see and decide on their own if they want it or not. Just by judging by their quesion, I don't know if they do take care of their car or not! If you ask me I'd say the 2.0 litre engines are reliable (at least so far for me at 170K kms). But can I say for sure that they will be the same for every G70? I don't think so.

 

[Slip_Angle]

@rmod - Great perspective. I came from a long line of Honda's, so not luxury and really liked each one of them. Basically make the best of what you have and enjoy it. The big benefit of the 2.0T is that it's lighter, less complex and does better on fuel. You can tune it and still have all those other things.

 

[Volfy]

I hope what I wrote doesn't get construed as criticizing the 3.3T. Far from it, the Lambda family has had an illustrious career powering Hyundai's mid-size to large sedans, as well as a whole host of SUVs. I've had no less than 5 Hyundai/Kia/Genesis vehicles with Lambda V6s - and I thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. Smooth, refined, torquey and most importantly reliable. The G6DP 3.3L turbo GDI is the pinnacle of that lineage. In the Stinger/G70 application, it is absolutely brilliant. If my vehicle purchasing criteria were different in these past 2yrs, I could quite possibly have chosen the 3.3T instead, for either - or both - of my cars.

As with any car choice, it is a combination of needs, wants and compromises. How much in that balance is rational vs. emotional is rather pointless in the grand scheme of things. A car can be a transportation appliance, a status symbol, a learning tool, a fashion accessory, an alter ego... or combination of the above. Some folks wear their car as much as they drive it. As long as the owner believes it's their disposal income well spent, that's all that matters.

Also, I'm not at all opposed to "excessive power" either. I've had motorcycles that oozed "excessive power" out of every orifice. For some applications, "too much" is the perfect amount. For 4 wheelers, I'm a bit more ambivalent on having "too much power". Even so, I'm not poopoo'ing the idea all together. Mfrs quite often package big HP/TQ with a high-performance "driver's car", because that's what most drivers want. To me, if the rest of the car meets my requirement, I'm certainly not going to shy away just because it has a bit too much power.

 

[JCtx]

The new 2.0Ts shouldn't have the casting defect of the old ones, so that's old news IMO. I had one of those (2016 Optima SX-L), and had to sell it because of that, but I wasn't worried buying a '23. But I'm not happy with the '22 SF Calligraphy, which has a DCT, due to a recall... but Hyundai is not replacing the bad high-pressure oil pump. We need to wait until it craps out, and then it'd get replaced. Nice going. This would be my 3rd (out of 9) Hyundai vehicle I have to sell due to a defective engine or tranny (1st was an Azera Limited). No way I'd go thru an engine (or tranny) replacement with the dealer I have. And I only use it to travel, so it needs to be reliable. When the DCT fails, it leaves you stranded on the spot. They should have been forced by the NHTSA to replace the defective oil pumps. Oh well. We'll see what happens, but if I'm forced to sell that thing too (at a huge loss as well), no more Hyundai vehicles for me.

 

[Geeman4242]

Is the 2.0T twin scroll? I thought only the new 2.5T. Does anybody know for sure? Just curious now .

Yes is does it has a tdo6 20g twin scroll turbo and it's sad that the turbo can handle up to 38 psi on a engine that can't utilize all its potential.

 

[JCtx]

Thank you for that. And since you're very knowlegdeable on this, do you happen to know what's the stock PSI limit our 2.0Ts? Haven't found that either. And even better would be regular vs premium fuel figures (I use regular fuel). The reason I use regular fuel is twofold: I didn't feel any difference, and my ex-2016 Optima SX-L with the same engine made 245/260 figures with regular (premium is not even recommended), while Genesis claims 252/260 (so same torque) on premium, so since I hardly ever go WOT on this thing, it makes no sense to pay $1 extra for premium for 7HP more I cannot feel. Thank you.

 

[Geeman4242]

Thank you for that. And since you're very knowlegdeable on this, do you happen to know what's the stock PSI limit our 2.0Ts? Haven't found that either. And even better would be regular vs premium fuel figures (I use regular fuel). The reason I use regular fuel is twofold: I didn't feel any difference, and my ex-2016 Optima SX-L with the same engine made 245/260 figures with regular (premium is not even recommended), while Genesis claims 252/260 (so same torque) on premium, so since I hardly ever go WOT on this thing, it makes no sense to pay $1 extra for premium for 7HP more I cannot feel. Thank you.

According to the internet 16 psi stock I use map 2 on my jb4 which is 4 psi over stock and it did push 20 psi. I read a post where a dude dyno his 2.0t stock got 210 hp and 224 to. Also map 2 4psi he got 240 wheel no mods. So with mods and e30 blend on a higher map probably close to 300 maybe more.

 

[Geeman4242]

I haven't found anything official either, but I do remember hearing it on Redline Reviews. He says it feels like a 6-6.2 second 0-60 for the 2.0T.

Not bad, actually.

I wonder how the pistons and rods look in that engine. Barring any major weak points, I bet it would love one of Garret's new G25 turbos.

I read up on the engine they put new New piston rings in Rods in the car and a new intake Manifold system also a new security system??? Whatever that is for the g70 and kia 2.0