Disappearing Genesis Dealerships

[Backslack]

^That's "predicted" reliability, a useless metric. Also, not sure how much credence I would give to a chart where a Lexus is less reliable than a Cadillac and BMW.

JD Power's 3-year dependability study is much more useful for gauging long-term reliability, not some made-up "prediction."

 

[d4civan]

^That's "predicted" reliability, a useless metric. Also, not sure how much credence I would give to a chart where a Lexus is less reliable than a Cadillac and BMW.

JD Power's 3-year dependability study is much more useful for gauging long-term reliability, not some made-up "prediction."

View attachment 56948

Agreed, and I am waiting for JDP results to be updated which typically happens in Feb. Genesis was decent reliability in Consumer reports last year and it just got dinged recently with an update a week back. Hopefully Genesis continues to do well in JD Power, especially the GV70 which I have been eyeing for a while.
Thankfully, the owner satisfaction in Consumer reports continues to be really good for Genesis despite the drop in reliability. I am willing to roll the dice when I see that.

 

[Jhon]

What are these ratings for? Dependability, gas mileage, style? What was the heading?
Thanks.

View attachment 56947

 

[d4civan]

What are these ratings for? Dependability, gas mileage, style? What was the heading?
Thanks.

Predicted Reliability of the vehicle.

 

[steveinarizona]

Predicted Reliability of the vehicle.

The problem with JD Powers is that it simply counts failures without evaluating them. So a broken radio switch is equal to a failed brake. In addition, it only rates initial failures. Similar problems pop up with other rating systems such as CR's. It is difficult, even impossible, to accurately rate reliability for a car that doesn't have a history.

 

[d4civan]

The problem with JD Powers is that it simply counts failures without evaluating them. So a broken radio switch is equal to a failed brake. In addition, it only rates initial failures. Similar problems pop up with other rating systems such as CR's. It is difficult, even impossible, to accurately rate reliability for a car that doesn't have a history.

Agree with JD Powers.
On CR, they adjust to give more weight to issues that render a vehicle undrivable or are expensive repairs. Powertrain, engine, etc. has more weight than fit issues for example.

 

[JaguarXJR]

CR has withdrawn it's previous recommendation for Genesis GV70 "No longer recommended". Genesis as a brand has dropped to 18 out of 30 on CR. Combine this with spotty dealer reviews, unknown brand,it will affect brand reputation and resale value adversely. You can nitpick the evaluation criteria but it's what a lot of non-enthusiast buyers use. The Genesis product is fine (imho) what isn't adequate is Genesis corporate handling of dealer standards and rollout .They seem to spend lots of time and money on corporate vanity and according to my sources very little on the practical issues that are undermining the brand. Easy fix.

 

[Jhon]

Agree with JD Powers.
On CR, they adjust to give more weight to issues that render a vehicle undrivable or are expensive repairs. Powertrain, engine, etc. has more weight than fit issues for example.

And don't forget, they put a ton of weight on how green the car is. They have a green agenda. For their overall rating numbers on cars, they refuse to give a breakdown on how they get their ratings. At least, they do that for the reliability issues.
CR is a good reference, but by no means the bible.

 

[Jhon]

All this being said, I just read that Genesis has overtaken Infinity in sales and is hot on the trail for Acura

Genesis surpasses Infiniti in Jan.-Sept. auto sales in U.S. - Pulse by Maeil Business News Korea

Genesis, a luxury car brand of South Korean auto giant Hyundai Motor Group, is rapidly gaining ground in the competitive U.S. automotive market, outpacing Infiniti, Nissan’s premium brand, in sales. According to data com

pulsenews.co.kr

 

[JaguarXJR]

The irony is the vehicles are excellent and the few high performing dealers sustain excellent satisfaction with the brand. Much of the blame for the depressed reputation is lack of corporate action with the dealership rollout and failing to hold standards of service.. Corporate spend fortunes on sponsorships, swanky PR at fancy locations, slick videos of conceited Corporate types congratulating each other on their work. But if you ask a worker in a Genesis Service Dept when they last met a Genesis rep - you'll get a blank look. Corporate doesn't know what is happening at Dealer level so they don't realize what action needs to be taken. Sponsoring more junkets at yet more golf tournaments won't solve this problem. It is a stunning Corporate failure to have such excellent vehicles blighted by a needlessly poor reputation. Can you tell I've been down this same road before with another brand ? Easy fix.They could start by reading this Forum.

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[d4civan]

And don't forget, they put a ton of weight on how green the car is. They have a green agenda. For their overall rating numbers on cars, they refuse to give a breakdown on how they get their ratings. At least, they do that for the reliability issues.
CR is a good reference, but by no means the bible.

I don't think how 'green' a car is (sustainability, mileage), makes it into CR reliability ratings.
But I agree, it would have been great to get the breakdown they use (proprietary reasons perhaps why they don't disclose this?).
E.g. would have loved to know what % of GV70 owners in their sample faced drivetrain issues, vs. the entire sample.
Also agree, they are no bible. While somewhat factual, I find their reviews very 'by committee' and somewhat too nitpicky. And also over reliant on reliability (important but not that important)

 

[d4civan]

All this being said, I just read that Genesis has overtaken Infinity in sales and is hot on the trail for Acura

Genesis surpasses Infiniti in Jan.-Sept. auto sales in U.S. - Pulse by Maeil Business News Korea

Genesis, a luxury car brand of South Korean auto giant Hyundai Motor Group, is rapidly gaining ground in the competitive U.S. automotive market, outpacing Infiniti, Nissan’s premium brand, in sales. According to data com

pulsenews.co.kr

Yep, same here in Canada.
It's between GV70 and RDX for me personally, with a lot of leaning towards GV70 currently. So, not surprised they are hot on trail of Acura.
Acura doesn't have free maintenance here in Canada like in the US, and their no touchscreen is not helping their case either.

 

[d4civan]

. Can you tell I've been down this same road before with another brand ? Easy fix.They could start by reading this Forum.

Jaguar? What's the story there?

 

[Jhon]

I don't think how 'green' a car is (sustainability, mileage), makes it into CR reliability ratings.
But I agree, it would have been great to get the breakdown they use (proprietary reasons perhaps why they don't disclose this?).
E.g. would have loved to know what % of GV70 owners in their sample faced drivetrain issues, vs. the entire sample.
Also agree, they are no bible. While somewhat factual, I find their reviews very 'by committee' and somewhat too nitpicky. And also over reliant on reliability (important but not that important)

Yes, I agree, I was not referring to the reliability ratings for the green part, I was referring to the overall number they come up with with no explanation. Did you ever notice how many hybrids are in the top rankings even over the same car with an ICE?

 

[Jhon]

Yep, same here in Canada.
It's between GV70 and RDX for me personally, with a lot of leaning towards GV70 currently. So, not surprised they are hot on trail of Acura.
Acura doesn't have free maintenance here in Canada like in the US, and their no touchscreen is not helping their case either.

I had an RDX I got in 2017. I kept it a year and got rid of it because there was no Android auto, and the voice recognition for the Acura maps was really really really bad. I wanted to get a 2019 when they came out as they had android auto, but they were in big demand as they had a major upgrade. The dealer did not have one for me to test drive let alone buy. So I got an Audi Q5. It was Kinda like when I was out shopping for a GV70. Nowhere to be seen. So I settled on a GV80. I am glad I upsized as the extra space is nice.

 

[d4civan]

Yes, I agree, I was not referring to the reliability ratings for the green part, I was referring to the overall number they come up with with no explanation. Did you ever notice how many hybrids are in the top rankings even over the same car with an ICE?

Yep, have certainly noticed that too.
The hybrids typically do have higher customer satisfaction (likely due to the mileage efficiency), and better low end torque and acceleration which leads to better ride scores. That and the majority are made by Toyota, Honda, lol.

 

[steveinarizona]

Yes, I agree, I was not referring to the reliability ratings for the green part, I was referring to the overall number they come up with with no explanation. Did you ever notice how many hybrids are in the top rankings even over the same car with an ICE?

So all other things being equal (a logical fallacy...I know) two cars, one with a hybrid and one pure ICE, otherwise identical, of course CU would rank the one with much higher fuel economy higher! Duh.

 

[Backslack]

The problem with JD Powers is that it simply counts failures without evaluating them. So a broken radio switch is equal to a failed brake. In addition, it only rates initial failures. Similar problems pop up with other rating systems such as CR's. It is difficult, even impossible, to accurately rate reliability for a car that doesn't have a history.

That's not true at all, see the 3-year JDP dependability survey I posted prior on this page. The main problem with CR is that they have far smaller sample sizes than JDP, which they are forced to extrapolate based on their own nebulous criteria, resulting in "predicted" reliability rather than actual documented reliability like the JDP survey.

 

[d4civan]

That's not true at all, see the 3-year JDP dependability survey I posted prior on this page. The main problem with CR is that they have far smaller sample sizes than JDP, which they are forced to extrapolate based on their own nebulous criteria, resulting in "predicted" reliability rather than actual documented reliability like the JDP survey.

Agree, that CR sample sizes are smaller than JDP's and that's why you gotta look at them both.

Their 'predicted' reliability are for 2024 models though, based off past 3 years actual documented reliability. That's available in the detailed reliability pages for the model, and behind a paywall.

Below is the GV70 reliability by model year, for instance.

 

[Backslack]

Agree, that CR sample sizes are smaller than JDP's and that's why you gotta look at them both.

Their 'predicted' reliability are for 2024 models though, based off past 3 years actual documented reliability. That's available in the detailed reliability pages for the model, and behind a paywall.

Below is the GV70 reliability by model year, for instance.

Not quite:

Consumer Reports' Car Reliability FAQ - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports answers common car reliability survey questions to explain the thought process and science behind the ratings.

www.consumerreports.org

How Many Samples Does CR Have of Each Model?
A typical vehicle has about 200 to 300 samples for each model year. When we have small sample sizes for models, we may use brand history and the reliability of similar models that may share major components to determine our predictions.

"Brand history" and "reliability of similar models" are irrelevant to the actual owner surveys and is just their excuse when they have such limited data, especially for a lower-volume brand like Genesis. If anything, the parts you showed for the GV70 demonstrated that it actually improved in reliability over the years, yet CR dropped their rating anyway. It's quite nebulous.