Major Safety Issue

[mcginnpm]

Very reminicent of an Airbus A320 crash in France. Pilots were testing a low approach with a "go around". The pilot put the "fly by wire" throttles to full power to go around. The computer had "other thoughts" and maintained the power where it was. Result...3 dead aircrew. The video says it all.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EM0hDchVlY"]YouTube- Airbus A320 Plane Crash[/ame]

If your accelerator were bad it "theoretically" would have thrown an OBDII code of P2122, P2123, P2127, P2128 or P2138. The accelerator position sensor measures the angle of depression of the accelerator pedal and sends a signal to the ECM which then sends a signal to the throttle actuator control motor. If that motor failed you would get a P0638, P2101, P2118 or P2119. The position of the throttle itself is further monitored and fed back to the ECM via a throttle position sensor which, if it failed, would throw a P0121, P0122 or P0123.

So, bottom line, there are all kinds of signals being fed to the ECM, computations going on inside the "black box", and signals being fed out to various systems. In the end, we are not in control, but merely "along for the ride" and placing our lives in the hands of some software code developer who hopefully wrote it correctly.

 

[PINGGOLF]

Holy Cow!

Ok...that was enough for me!

If my Genny even makes a FART sound...were going to the doctor!

Life it too precious!

 

[Disaster]

Very reminicent of an Airbus A320 crash in France.

I've read some scary stories of Airbus crashes where the pilot lost control of the aircraft. Boeing continued to use "hard" controls but I think even their latest aircraft are going to fly by wire.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597164676456981.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/a/airplane_accidents_and_incidents/air_france_flight_447/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier

 

[realpix]

Wow. My Genesis is a pretty amazing car but I didn't know they could fly. I guess my 3.8 didn't come with the fly by wire option.

That is becase you didn't get the V-8. That car flies

 

[ehayden1]

I have a similar experience. I have a 2009 3.8L Genesis with tech package. Fully loaded and runs great at highway speeds. Low speed operations are eratic at times. I have it in the shop now as we speak and they are studying it. Lucky for me they gave me a 2010 genesis as a loaner car. Same exact color. Go figure. Miss my car but not bad for having to wait til they get the right problem identified.

My symptoms are basically in the area of low speed operations. One, I notice a high erratic idle when starting cold. It fluctuates between 1200 and 2000 RPMs like it is fishing for idle for about 3 minutes then settles down to 1100. After 3 minutes it seems to run a normal -programmed idle reduction waiting til the engine and cat has warmed up.

My next issue is a bit more unsettling. Similar to watching an erratic tach, when I start off from zero and have to merge and turn into 50 mile per hour cross-traffic, I find I don't have a predictable and consistent power curve when pressing the accelerator. One out of 5 times starting from zero, I slowly begin to move about 15 feet then the tach screams to 2500 within a second and throws my head back into my headrest. Wow. Talk about quick 0 to 30 MPH. Too bad that isn't a standard performance test ha.

Anyway, not normal and very unsafe when accelerating while in a 90 degree turn. I fully feel they will find this one. Probably a throttle assembly sensor like many have found in this post. People think I am jackrabbitting off the stop but it isn't so. It is just truly not consistent. The other 4 out of 5 times it runs perfectly and accelerates normally from zero. After about 30 minutes of worrying about my foot on the accelerator too heavy, I get leg cramps. You really need to barely touch it when it drives normally at cruising speeds.

My last issue that may still be related to the acceleration issue is when I cruise for a period of time at highway speeds and then coast along at slower speeds from 20 to 30 usually like when exiting a highway and hitting a secondary road, the car seems to have trouble keeping a steady torque and speed. When keeping my foot on the pedal pretty much at the exact same spot I can actually feel the engine surging or power being applied and then coasting then power then coasting without me doing anything myself. Makes me feel I have little control over the car when pressing the accelerator. Again it adds to my lifting my foot because I don't want to over power the car and ruin the gas mileage.

It doesn't help that the tach reporting actual RPMs is a tiny bit delayed so you dont see an erratic tach truly measuring engine performance and cause further worry. I can hear the engine surging and cutting back very easily with the window open but the tach looks steady artificially. Anyway, these seem very detectable so hoping for the best.

Don't you just love a car with a dozen computers all having to talk to each other to give the driver better control over the car versus the old days when we had control over the car

I love the car and consider these dangerous but still minor fixes. Once identified and repaired, the car will be pretty much perfect.

Im in systems so asked them to be honest with me and tell me the codes when they pull them from the car. I will be happy to share in detail what they find in case it is helpful to others. 2009 is the first production year so I expect some design and ECM programming bugs to be tweaked. The good news is since it is software, sensors register the situational data and it will just force the engineers to tweak the performance code to operate accordingly when they believe what the customer says is happening is truly happening.

This is the second time I brought it in within 4 days so they are starting to believe it.

 

[ehayden1]

Just following up. They also believe all my issues are related to the Throttle Assembly and Throttle position sensor. They ordered the parts and are going to replace the whole thing. I should have the car back tomorrow (2 day fix).

After driving home another Genesis I confirmed the "fishing" for idle problem is only on mine and there is a very predictable power curve going from 0 to 30MPH. Mine leaps from 5 to 30 MPH without warning. They also feel the faulty throttle sensor is affecting the transmission shift logic and is being amplified at the lower speeds versus highway speeds where it shifts less.

 

[SunnySD]

Are you guys filing reports with the NHTSA? Safety related defects should be filed for our benefit.

 

[ehayden1]

Picked up the car yesterday. They replaced the throttle body assembly and all associated gaskets and position sensors.

Will run a week to see if the check engine light stays off. It drives great, all three problems fixed so far (high erratic idle from cold startup, intermittent fast acceleration when starting off from zero to 10-15 mph, and surging at low speeds (30-35 mph) you feel it the most.

 

[ASHDUMP]

Picked up the car yesterday. They replaced the throttle body assembly and all associated gaskets and position sensors.

Will run a week to see if the check engine light stays off. It drives great, all three problems fixed so far (high erratic idle from cold startup, intermittent fast acceleration when starting off from zero to 10-15 mph, and surging at low speeds (30-35 mph) you feel it the most.

Going to need a follow up from you on this to see if everything feel right for you. I just started a new thread about engin sputter, but I've noticed a couple of the symtoms you've described.

My car does the same thing when merging onto the highway. It feel like to hesitates for a bit, then excelerates out of no where.... we'll see what happens. Here is the thread I started http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=4399

 

[ehayden1]

Followup 2, it's been about 4 days now and the car is performing optimumly as far as I can tell.

I read your other post. Is your sputter problem still recurring? And your surprise acceleration? Can these symptoms be reproduced fairly easily or did they go away. And what helped me know for certain things I were seeing weren't "designed to perform that way" issues was when I brought in the car for service, they gave me another Genesis as a loaner car. I could tell right away, none of my symptoms could be reproduced in another Genesis.

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[gameday22]

Have had this happen now on a few different occasions, come to find out it was the Throttle Body which was replaced under warranty. I went to pass a car and the engine felt like it totally cut power for a moment, then it decided to wake up and throttled me (no pun intended) back into the seat as it revved up really high and began to rapidly accelerate. It also cut power coming out of a McDonald's when I was trying to get out into the flow of traffic, to say the least this is a really bad thing to have happen and quite scary when oncoming cars are rapidly approaching.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

It happened again just last weekend, 2 months after having the TB replaced. Several hesitations and this time the check engine light came on. When they pulled the code(s) today it reported Throttle Body / Throttle Body Sensor as the cause. It's now in to have it replaced again and hopefully for the last time.

In between these two problems I also had the check engine light come on last month, when they pulled codes it reported that the Oil Control Valve was faulty, replaced under warranty.

I don't know how most are treating their Genesis but if it's anything like me I'm sure they are keeping them in great shape. I have had all scheduled mileage services done and all other services / oil changes etc. meticulously maintained. It just turned a year old on the 10th of June. I really love this car but the amount of unscheduled maintenance problems it has been having is getting quite annoying. The only time I should be visiting my dealership is when it needs an oil change etc.. or I'm looking to purchase another car. I understand that it's mechanical, but that many engine related issues in just a year is pretty frustrating.

Still enjoy the car 110%,...when it's actually on the road and not in the shop. The one thing I can say is my service department really goes out of their way to take care of you, they have me in a loaner Genesis each time while mine is being repaired...some of the best customer service I have ever experienced from a car dealer.

 

[CanukV6]

I have experienced the Loss of Power issue twice now and both under similar circumstances. Driving home to Canada from vacation a few weeks ago, we were 3 hours into the journey, fully loaded and driving uphill through the hills in north central Pensylvannia. It was 95 degrees outside and suddenly while pulling out into the passing lane to get around a slower truck the car just totally lost engine power. It didn't stall but there was no acceleration. Coasted to the shoulder and the car was idling unevenly and engine would not rev cleanly even in Neutral. Shut it off and back on a couple of times until it seemed to allow the engine to rev more freely. I was able to pull away slowly and get back up to highway speeds but any sharp acceleration would cause the engine to falter. By this time the Check Engine light was on. We carried on like this all the way home with fingers crossed. Fuel mileage was terrible using about 1/3 more fuel than normal for the last part of the journey. Dealer pulled codes that suggested Overfuelling but could not pin-point the cause. By this time CE light was out and car was running normally (of course ).

Two weeks later I had to make another trip to central PA and coming home in 97 deg. weather the car ran fine for the first 2 hours then on an uphill section just south of Williamsport the exact same thing happened. I managed to get over the crest of the hill and coast down the other side into Williamsport. Limped into the dealer (by now the car was virtually undrivable) and they diagnosed Lean Running on all cylinders. They checked all the sensors and they seemed OK. Suspecting fuel starvation they checked the fuel-pump pressure and it read normal (55psi). The tech then removed and cleaned the Mass Airflow Sensor and cleaned it, although it didn't seem to be dirty. He took it for a test drive and said everthing now appeared normal. By now it was cooler (79deg.F) so I decided to try for home and the car ran fine.

What bothers me is that two dealers have been unable to find an exact cause, each had totally opposite diagnosis and I'm left wondering if I can trust driving my car in 90 degree weather anymore! Still love the car but...... Lastly, I cannot say enough good things about Fairfield Auto Mall in Montoursville PA (Authorised Hyundai Service Centre) who really came to my rescue and got me back on the road in a short time, despite being busy with service appointments.

 

[homeofstone]

I note that you have a K&N filter. Sone TB sensors malfuction from the oil in the filter. Go back to a OEM filter.

 

[fungo45]

Reviving an old thread, but add me to the list. It doesn't happen often, but it's happened a half dozen times over the past month or so. Seems to happens when coming close to a complete stop, and then accelerating (like rolling through a stop sign or a right on red). As others have mentioned, it feels like the engine just completely dies (though it's still running). For me, I have not had any check engine lights.
I'm bringing the car in for some other issues (minor stuff) and will add this to the list of things.

 

[landtuna]

I have experienced the Loss of Power issue twice now and both under similar circumstances. >snip<

The incidents you describe, including the outside air temp, indicate fuel starvation (lean on all cylinders). I had this problem on another make of car. A gasket had disintegrated and filled a very small screen in the fuel pump with bits and pieces. It was enough to cause the engine to "stall" (but not quit) in temps above 80F but it ran fine when cooler. The fuel pump was also a high pressure, high capacity type.

I would make sure your service department checks the fuel pump operation and cleans screens and replaces all filters.

 

[sramed]

I have been having this same issue for about 3 months. Have taken the car to dealer twice and no luck getting a code and they didn't experience the same when driving. It seems to be getting more frequent. Pull up to an intersection and stop, then try to take off and engine just idles. Very dangerous if you are in a yield zone as you cannot go until engine decides to get the gas moving. --- 2009 V6 Genesis

 

[Legacy]

I make it a point to check posts referencing any safety issue. After reading the comments in this post, it reminded me of the very same problem, symptoms and all just last week. And, it is scary, when it happens.

This problem, however, does not involve my 2010 Genesis 4.6. The car involved is another Korean made vehicle, my daughter's 2013 Chevy Spark, manufactured by Daewoo. I know, they're two different animals, but the solution to her problem surprised me as the remedy. The car is in Los Angeles and moisture is normally not an issue. But moisture was discovered in the neutral safety switch and a good cleaning and application of dielectric grease by the dealer solved the problem. This has been a problem for GM for a few years, they finally found the cure, then issued a TSB. Could this be the issue with the Genesis? Don't know, but I offer this up as an example of a truly dangerous situation in desperate need of a solution. My daughter is precious to me and the idea of having no power in a tiny Spark, with a big truck bearing down, is an unpleasant thought. Just my $.02. (And I wish she had bought something bigger!)

 

[craigt]

My daughter is precious to me and the idea of having no power in a tiny Spark, with a big truck bearing down...

Not trying to be a jerk, but something about this doesn't make sense to me.

Why put her in a "tiny Spark" in the first place if you are concerned about big trucks bearing down on her?

 

[Legacy]

Likewise, not trying to sound like a jerk, but when was the last time you tried to get a woman to reconsider a decision she has made? Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. I didn't put her in a Spark; as I said, she bought it herself, against my wishes. My daughter is 23, is considered an adult, and bears responsibility for her actions. She's also headstrong and independent. As much as I tried to get her to consider buying something bigger, like a Sonata, her concern (at the time) for $4.00+ a gallon gas in LA drove her to a tiny, tinny car. I don't like the car, but I know when to shut up. Just basic reality.

 

[craigt]

...when was the last time you tried to get a woman to reconsider a decision she has made?

Yesterday, but today isn't over yet.

I should stop assuming, as I assumed it was a car purchased for a "new" driver.

My mistake.