“Don’t use jumper cables!” says Pat Goss on Motor Week.

[PMCErnie]

So, on the latest episode of Motor Week (PBS) Pat Goss warned against using traditional jumper cables on modern computerized cars. Instead, he says, use a lithium ion battery pack that has surge protection, etc. features.

 

[EdP]

So, on the latest episode of Motor Week (PBS) Pat Goss warned against using traditional jumper cables on modern computerized cars. Instead, he says, use a lithium ion battery pack that has surge protection, etc. features.


View attachment 43499

I can see the reasoning. They run from $79 to $384 on Amazon. If you carry one, Says it can hold a charge for up to 6 months. Cables are short but will fit across a battery. If you use the terminals in the engine compartment it would probably depend on how close the ground.

Last thing I want to do if have a dead battery on cold winter night and find my jumper battery is dead too. Don't toss those old cables yet. My battery is 4 1/2 years, I should look into this or maybe a new battery soon.

 

[tarhoosier]

My manual describes how to use cables safely. Is the manufacturer wrong?

 

[EdP]

My manual describes how to use cables safely. Is the manufacturer wrong?

No, but you are probably one of 12 people that actually look at the manual. I'm sure some people hook up the cables and wonder why they are different colors.

 

[tCizzler]

And most people try to start their car with the "good" car running and all lit up.

 

[Jhon]

I have one of those chargers. On mine, it says to recharge it every three months. I do, but it hardly needs it. Also, I don't keep it in my car when tooling around town as I am worried about the heat here in SW Florida. But if I am going far, I throw it in the trunk.
One day comming home from a vacation where I had gotten sick. I went to the airport parking lot and found I never fully closed the door. The battery was dead. It was snowing and there was about 5 inches of snow on the ground and my car. then I remembered I had a jumper in my car. It was the old lead acid type, but that damn thing saved the day.

 

[PMCErnie]

Sadly, Pat Goss won’t be offering any more advice. He died earlier this month.

Pat Goss - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[carguy75]

My manual describes how to use cables safely. Is the manufacturer wrong?

The manufacturer is correct that jumper cables can be used properly without causing electrical damage. However, the problem is that most people think that you connect the negative battery terminals together on the dead and donor battery with the jumper cables. Wrong. That could lead to issues since batteries should be ground to chassis not to each other.

The proper way is to connect the negative jumper cable to the dead battery car chassis ground(nut on frame) to make a safe parallel connection.

A jump pack in the easier and safer method if available. However, you can also use standard jumper cables if that is all you have to work with in an emergency.

Note: The Genesis trunk mounted battery really should not even be an issue to jump start with cables unlike most other cars with batteries under the hood; since it has an easy to hook up jump set design under the hood for the trunk mounted battery from the factory that prevents the possible issue of connected the negative battery terminals together.

 

[tarhoosier]

My father taught me how to change a tire before I was able to drive a car. A valuable lesson for a lifetime. Same for battery connections though he did not teach me that. Every young soon-to-be driver should practice these two actions. Even if the young person may never perform the action him/herself. Knowing how to do it properly and safely allows the young person to be certain the person who performs the action follows safe procedures. Never assume the Samaritan or road assistant knows what to do.
Also: a GREAT gift for ANYONE is high quality, thick gauge, long jump cables in a package that stows neatly. Cheap junk is unsafe in every application.

 

[Husky]

The reason you're supposed to connect the negative (ground) to the chassis, away from the battery, is to prevent the chance of sparks, when connecting it, from igniting any hydrogen gas emitted from the battery under charge.
Also, for cars with trunk mounted batteries, where they put a positive battery post under the hood, they use a chassis mounted post for the negative terminal, rather than having to run another heavy cable the length of the car back too the battery.
As a EE of forty years, I can think of no good reason, from an electrical standpoint, to use the chassis rather than the battery for the negative connection, considering the fact that they are connected by an extremely low ohmic connection (milliOhms).
Also, as someone who has designed electronics for car manufacturers, I can say that there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding how sensitive modern electronics are. Sure, there's a lot more electronics in modern cars and they are certainly more sensitive than light bulbs and motors, which is about all we had in older cars (other than the radio), but electronics designed for the automotive industry are required to work over a very wide voltage range and tolerate various over-voltage conditions for different lengths of time. They are much more robust than many would have you believe.

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[PMCErnie]

Poor Goss. No words of condolences here.

 

[RCH04]

Poor Goss. No words of condolences here.

Maybe no Motorweek viewers? I read that Motorweek will run all of the Goss' Garage segments that had been taped, and at the end will add a memorial to him. I saw one this week and it was a nice touch. I'll miss him and his low key and humorous style.

 

[Husky]

Poor Goss. No words of condolences here.

I was sorry to hear it. I watched him occasionally over the years. It seems like he had that show for many decades. RIP.

 

[TrickyRicky]

No, but you are probably one of 12 people that actually look at the manual. I'm sure some people hook up the cables and wonder why they are different colors.

You are not too far off base! My 26 year old nephew replaced the battery in his car. Claimed the new one was defective too, when checked, he never took the plastic post covers off. Millennials.

 

[carguy75]

The reason you're supposed to connect the negative (ground) to the chassis, away from the battery, is to prevent the chance of sparks, when connecting it, from igniting any hydrogen gas emitted from the battery under charge.
Also, for cars with trunk mounted batteries, where they put a positive battery post under the hood, they use a chassis mounted post for the negative terminal, rather than having to run another heavy cable the length of the car back too the battery.
As a EE of forty years, I can think of no good reason, from an electrical standpoint, to use the chassis rather than the battery for the negative connection, considering the fact that they are connected by an extremely low ohmic connection (milliOhms).
Also, as someone who has designed electronics for car manufacturers, I can say that there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding how sensitive modern electronics are. Sure, there's a lot more electronics in modern cars and they are certainly more sensitive than light bulbs and motors, which is about all we had in older cars (other than the radio), but electronics designed for the automotive industry are required to work over a very wide voltage range and tolerate various over-voltage conditions for different lengths of time. They are much more robust than many would have you believe.

What electronics did you design and for what automaker?

 

[Husky]

After 18 years designing aerospace electronics (military and commercial), I made a career change and became a chip designer, specializing in power management, working for a leading Silicon Valley analog IC company. Over the next 23 years, before I retired, I designed a number of ICs which were targeted to the automotive market. These were catalogue parts, not custom parts, but still needed to meet the requirements of the auto industry for them to be viable.
I suggest you Google "load dump". You'll get some insight into what automotive electronics need to be designed to handle. I think most people would be surprised.

 

[Husky]

They were all high frequency, synchronous, switch-mode DC/DC power converters. In most cases there is some level of transient suppression built into the electronics (radio, ECU, etc...) to help protect everything downstream, but many manufacturers still required the various ICs to be rated for voltages well in excess of 12V.

 

[tCizzler]

I suggest you Google "load dump". You'll get some insight

I don't suggest you Google "load dump" while at work unless your safe search feature is enabled. Hahaha

 

[carguy75]

After 18 years designing aerospace electronics (military and commercial), I made a career change and became a chip designer, specializing in power management, working for a leading Silicon Valley analog IC company. Over the next 23 years, before I retired, I designed a number of ICs which were targeted to the automotive market. These were catalogue parts, not custom parts, but still needed to meet the requirements of the auto industry for them to be viable.
I suggest you Google "load dump". You'll get some insight into what automotive electronics need to be designed to handle. I think most people would be surprised.

What did the automotive IC chips that you designed control exactly?

Another question; what does load dumping has to do with jump starting a dead car battery?

 

[Husky]

Oh geez Let's skip the details of my career and deal with the second question, which is pertinent to this thread.
You brought up the issue of where cables should be connected when jump starting a car, to avoid "electrical damage" - although you never explained what kind of damage would occur and why. I was simply pointing out that because automotive electronics need to be designed to survive what is known as "load dump", they are much more robust than people think, and not so sensitive that damage would occur if you connected the negative jumper cable to the battery versus the chassis - whatever difference you think that might cause.

Maybe I misunderstood you. Please explain exactly what electrical damage you were talking about, and why it would occur if the negative jumper cable went to the battery rather than the chassis.