15% Ethanol

[pmckechnie]

I saw a report on CBS? news that 15% ethanol would start to be sold by some stations in the US starting in September 2016. Has any one else seen this? What are we going to do about the 10% ethanol limit set by Hyundai for our cars?

Any thoughts on the subject?

 

[kn5owa]

I saw a report on CBS? news that 15% ethanol would start to be sold by some stations in the US starting in September 2016. Has any one else seen this? What are we going to do about the 10% ethanol limit set by Hyundai for our cars?

Any thoughts on the subject?

It's called "corn gas".

Avoid it if you can.

 

[cleex024]

It's called "corn gas".

Avoid it if you can.

Uh huh I think the op knows what ethanol is...he is worrying about the limit Hyundai has saying no more than 10% ethanol I your gas.

Ok I'm not sure why they put this limit but it might actually have to do with epa ratings...i had a 335I before and had a tune with 40% ethanol. Ran this for 10k miles and everything ran fine but the gas mileage was way down...only thing that looked a little weird was this brown sugar looking residue left on the spark plugs.

I'm going to assume that the residue was also on the pistons...but I'm sure that it was from using 40% ethanol as the regular 10% shell gas was fine...so going up 5% shouldn't really do anything. News should stay coming out though about this and whether it's really going to harm your car or not

 

[PinkFloyd]

E85 has been around for a while, so this is not completely new.

The worst of the many problems caused by this ridiculously government-mandated corn fuel are when it's used in small engines (mowers, edgers, boats, etc.) or in engines that are not regularly run.

 

[jsmit86]

E85 (85% Ethanol) requires special fuel system components. It absolutely will damage most cars that are not FLEX FUEL certified.

E15 (15% Ethanol) is the new blend under discussion. EPA is touting this as safe for all cars, but several manufacturers are saying that using E15 may harm the car, and may void the warranty in the event it causes harm.

 

[cleex024]

E85 (85% Ethanol) requires special fuel system components. It absolutely will damage most cars that are not FLEX FUEL certified.

E15 (15% Ethanol) is the new blend under discussion. EPA is touting this as safe for all cars, but several manufacturers are saying that using E15 may harm the car, and may void the warranty in the event it causes harm.

How do you know it absolutely causes damage? There are multiple tests done in the real world even with old Chevy suvs putting 100k miles plus on straight e85x114 without even a hiccup.

I just don't think there is enough evidence out there to make such a claim that it will absolutely do more damage than just regular pump gas will do.

However if you are tuning and making a considerable more power than stock than you will need more fueling and by using e85 you will need even more fueling... which in this case might cause damage by putting too much strain on your fueling system.

 

[sensazngen]

E85 (85% Ethanol) requires special fuel system components. It absolutely will damage most cars that are not FLEX FUEL certified.

E15 (15% Ethanol) is the new blend under discussion. EPA is touting this as safe for all cars, but several manufacturers are saying that using E15 may harm the car, and may void the warranty in the event it causes harm.

Agreed. I only run BP gas in all of my cars which has 0% ethanol. I prefer to put corn on my grill instead of my car.

 

[cleex024]

Agreed. I only run BP gas in all of my cars which has 0% ethanol. I prefer to put corn on my grill instead of my car.

That's not true at all...if your bp doesn't have any ethanol then you are lucky because all the ones I've been to here in va all have up to 10%

 

[danygenesis]

These are a couple good linsk about Ethanol gas
http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html

http://www.pure-gas.org/

 

[kn5owa]

Agreed. I only run BP gas in all of my cars which has 0% ethanol. I prefer to put corn on my grill instead of my car.

Page F7 of my manual sez:

1. Ethanol - use only up to 10% max

2. E85 - Don't even think about it

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[amartz]

Agreed. I only run BP gas in all of my cars which has 0% ethanol. I prefer to put corn on my grill instead of my car.

+1

 

[sensazngen]

That's not true at all...if your bp doesn't have any ethanol then you are lucky because all the ones I've been to here in va all have up to 10%

Here is Kansas City all of the BP that I use are all ethanol free. I experienced the same when I lived back in Minnesota. However when traveling I have seen ethanol at BP's like in Iowa where corn is heavily promoted.

 

[sensazngen]

These are a couple good linsk about Ethanol gas
http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html

http://www.pure-gas.org/

Thanks for sharing. Great information.

 

[pmckechnie]

My question still stands. What will we do when E15 comes our way?

This thread is going off track so I will also add my $.02 worth.
Ethanol is EVIL. in a car, boat, airplane, lawn equipment, etc.
Ethanol is a political subject.
Extensive test with my 84 500SEL MB proved to me that for every mile driven, the same amount of gasoline was used. The 10% ethanol added nothing to the MPG. It reduced the MPG by about 10%.

Gasoline (E0) has 114,000 btu's of heat.
Gasoline (E10) has 111,836 btu's of heat.
Ethanol (E100) has 76,100 btu's of heat.
BTU's can be converted to HP (I don't know how but it does)
So in the same engine, you will get more power from E0 then you will from E10.
More power per gallon equates to more MPG.
You can see these numbers here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

Ethanol in the gas absorbs water from the air. It then becomes an acid. The acid causes corrosion if left in long enough. If you drive your car often then you probably will not have any problem. Boats, some airplanes, most lawn equipment will set during the winter and you probably will have problems. Also the ethanol will damage fiberglass fuel tanks (boats) and cause them to leak.

A friend of mine has a Flex Fuel K2500 GMC pickup. He tried E85 just to see how it did. First problem was MPG went down a lot. Actually cost him more to use E85 even though it cost less. In his work he has to pull a trailer with a Bobcat on it. Because of the loss of power he had to put the truck in 4 wheel/low range in some situations that he normally could do in 2 wheel drive. It had much less working power.

This could go on and on. I could probably write a book on the subject but no one would read it.

 

[jsmit86]

How do you know it absolutely causes damage? There are multiple tests done in the real world even with old Chevy suvs putting 100k miles plus on straight e85x114 without even a hiccup.

I just don't think there is enough evidence out there to make such a claim that it will absolutely do more damage than just regular pump gas will do.

However if you are tuning and making a considerable more power than stock than you will need more fueling and by using e85 you will need even more fueling... which in this case might cause damage by putting too much strain on your fueling system.

Actually it's pretty well established that Ethanol is corrosive to many fuel system components, primarily rubber and plastic parts, but also to metal to some degree.

Fuel systems for FLEX FUEL vehicles are designed with different materials that are resistant to Ethanol corrosion. A quick Google search will provide a lot of reading on the subject.

Now.... E15 is up to debate. EPA says it won't affect modern vehicles. Many manufacturers disagree. FCA for example.. they support full FLEX FUEL up to E85, but for their non Flex Fuel cars, they say that will not cover any damage caused by mixes above E10. Hyundai had the same position, and IIRC does not have any current FLEX FUEL vehicles.

 

[GenesisAWD]

Have put E10 in all my vehicles for over a decade. Never had any problems or issues ever. If you have some sort of unique engine or older engine then I'm sure it would be different but in my experience for the vast majority of new-ish cars, it's just fine. Including the Genesis.

 

[jsmit86]

E10 is approved for use in Hyundai vehicles. E15 is not.

See :
http://smarterfuelfuture.org/blog/details/could-your-next-fill-up-damage-your-engine

And another link with a much simpler chart.
http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2015/03/02/e15-this-chart-kind-of-says-it-all/

 

[PinkFloyd]

Back when the government first waved its magic wand and mandated the mixture of ethanol into gasoline, it was touted as a renewable resource that was environmentally-friendly.

Later examination revealed that:

1) Producing one gallon of fuel ethanol (growing, harvesting, converting, etc.) consumes 1.3 gallons of oil-based fuels

2) The use of ethanol in gasoline produces more overall pollution than if no ethanol were used. Even Al Gore has changed his mind on this and isn't a fan of E10 or E15 any longer.

3) If the price of ethanol weren't heavily subsidized by the dollars taken out of our earnings each month or quarter, it could in no way compete with gasoline.

 

[PaFromFL]

I'm also disgusted that the corn lobby forced this scam down our throats. Practically speaking, the situation is similar to using a non-Hyundai oil filter. Maybe Hyundai's warnings are unnecessary, or maybe the dealer will still honor the warranty if something breaks, or maybe you can win through Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. How much time and money are you willing to gamble? For me the answer is zero.

 

[jsmit86]

I'm also disgusted that the corn lobby forced this scam down our throats. Practically speaking, the situation is similar to using a non-Hyundai oil filter. Maybe Hyundai's warnings are unnecessary, or maybe the dealer will still honor the warranty if something breaks, or maybe you can win through Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. How much time and money are you willing to gamble? For me the answer is zero.

Bingo-

The EPA says E15 is OK..
Hyundai says no. Hyundai warranties the car, not the EPA.